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Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: chappers_saint (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 22:29

All very well but it also appears he is clueless as to why this is happening or how to fix it

[www.northamptonchron.co.uk]

About whether we should play a more conservative game, "But that's not what we were successful doing in the time I've been here so whether you go away from that or not, we'll have to regroup the troops on Tuesday and see what that picture looks like for Exeter"

More of the same for Exeter.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
Date: 14 September, 2020 22:32

It is Rugby, you can't change anything that quick, especially with these turnarounds.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: Saint Maul (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 00:20

This is probably the hardest test of Boyd's coaching career. Can he turn it around.

He's a talented coach no doubt. But can he adapt to be successful in English conditions, the way the game is played and refereed here. Is there a steely, pragmatic core within that romantic heart?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 15/09/2020 00:22 by Saint Maul.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 09:05

He does have a point, we were successful with that great brand of rugby, it just has to be very accurate and we're very far from that. So unless everyone else has improved hugely since January or we've just been completely figured out we should be able to win with that style of rugby but it relies on execution and confidence - so how do we get that back from where we are is the question?

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 09:13

Quote:
LeicesterSaint
so how do we get that back from where we are is the question?

One score at a time, take any points on offer in the first 50 mins. Then when the team are trying things its not with a huge points deficit.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 09:30

So is that a leadership/captaincy issue then? Agreed against Tigers we outscored them three tries to one but they kept the scoreboard ticking over with pens and a drop goal where as we went to the corner repeatedly (although that did lead to the penalty try and a yellow).

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 10:13

I think it has to be Leadership to be honest.

I am convinced (perhaps wrongly) that these are good players. We have been having good possession and penetration into the Oppositions 22 in a lot of the recent games but we have continued to go for the corner. Someone is making that decision. Either the coaches/Captain.

Yes we have scored a couple of trys from this but we have also wasted a lot of ball through bad throwing Or worse, wasted a lot of time banging on the door for 5+ Mins and eventually coming away with nothing.

We seem to be short of leaders, No Cobus, No Wood, No Waller... No surprise? Thats 3 big voices and there will be others i am sure.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: Angus67 (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 10:56

Quote:
Duckonstilts
I think it has to be Leadership to be honest.
I am convinced (perhaps wrongly) that these are good players. We have been having good possession and penetration into the Oppositions 22 in a lot of the recent games but we have continued to go for the corner. Someone is making that decision. Either the coaches/Captain.

Yes we have scored a couple of trys from this but we have also wasted a lot of ball through bad throwing Or worse, wasted a lot of time banging on the door for 5+ Mins and eventually coming away with nothing.

We seem to be short of leaders, No Cobus, No Wood, No Waller... No surprise? Thats 3 big voices and there will be others i am sure.

+1

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 11:13

I think there are different types of leadership - you want those who lead by example and I think we're OK in that department with Lawes, Ludlam and Teimana (although more is always better), however I think perhaps Biggs is trying too hard in that regard in a position that doesn't lend itself to it (eg taking it into contact means that there's no 10 at the next play).

However what we don't have enough of is experienced cool heads to get the ref onside and take decisions around kicking points, who needs psyching up and who needs cooling down etc. Some players could somehow do both but it's a fine line to tread - see Farrell most recently and Hartley before, if you look to make a personal impact and get it wrong you deprive the team of your leadership for the rest of the game and beyond.

I'd be interested to hear from Woody - by all accounts he's training just not allowed to play until he's off meds. It does sort of add weight to the theory that something is off somewhere - I just can't imagine so many of the squad and coaching staff being remotely happy with where we are right now.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: Scooby Saint COYS (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 12:11

Quote:
Duckonstilts
Quote:
LeicesterSaint
so how do we get that back from where we are is the question?

One score at a time, take any points on offer in the first 50 mins. Then when the team are trying things its not with a huge points deficit.

Agree. We sometimes raise the pressure on ourselves by repeatedly kicking to the corner early in a game. Itís a different matter when confidence is high, and things are clicking, but at the moment it feels like we could manage that pressure better by getting points on the board more often.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: 195Rich (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 12:52

Quote:
LeicesterSaint
He does have a point, we were successful with that great brand of rugby, it just has to be very accurate and we're very far from that. So unless everyone else has improved hugely since January or we've just been completely figured out we should be able to win with that style of rugby but it relies on execution and confidence - so how do we get that back from where we are is the question?

Something has changed ...Reinach; when he arrived he was a liability but he improved beyond measure once he was first choice - he was the catalyst for the team and won games on his own, through interceptions and match saving tackles - we have no-one genuinely quick in the squad anymore and none big enough and hard enough to blast a hole in defences for the others to exploit. The only option is to go around defences and they know if they get their outside centre up quick we will throw a speculative pass or cut inside and be swallowed up. If we do get the ball out wide the winger on one side isn't big enough or quick enough and the one on the other is big, but soft, slow and drops it, throws it away or loses it as he hits the ground - oh and can't tackle.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: smitferbrainz (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 14:05

Why do we go for the corner at all right now? Our line out is the pits, we donít throw straight or itís so poorly thrown the catcher drops it, knocks it on or the opposition catch it. If we do develop a maul the pack isnít big enough or strong enough to get us over or we drop it/ knock it on whilst trying then get mullered in the resulting scrum. If we do manage a maul which we try a backs move from we drop it or are tackled and usually lose / get penalised in the resulting breakdown. Overall result? Usually no points. It would be better to go for the posts and get some reward from what penalties we do get awarded that are kickable. We should only go for the corner if we absolutely have to at the present time. It was different, in fact completely the opposite back in 2011/12/13 when I fully supported going for the corner almost every time. We were like the present day Exeter in those days. Kick to the corner very often got us at least 5 or led to the try eventually.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: Duckonstilts (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 14:45

Quote:
smitferbrainz
Why do we go for the corner at all right now? Our line out is the pits

I completely agree. Obviously its there to be used when we need the points or we are in the ascendancy but thats not now.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: Hymenoptera (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 16:04

Quote:
SaintsAsh
It is Rugby, you can't change anything that quick, especially with these turnarounds.

See Wasps, 9th - 2nd from a DOR change.

Side note, has Reniachs contribution been understated, how much did he influence opposition play, overall results and points on the board, take him out, how many of those games would Saints have won. I wonder if he flattered Boyd? Call it a coincidence but...

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: SaintsAsh (IP Logged)
Date: 15 September, 2020 19:34

Quote:
Hymenoptera
Quote:
SaintsAsh
It is Rugby, you can't change anything that quick, especially with these turnarounds.

See Wasps, 9th - 2nd from a DOR change.

Side note, has Reniachs contribution been understated, how much did he influence opposition play, overall results and points on the board, take him out, how many of those games would Saints have won. I wonder if he flattered Boyd? Call it a coincidence but...

A couple of their players have said that nothing has changed coaching wise, and it is a coincidence that their fortunes changed when Dai went as he was DOR not a coach.

Cobus rescued us once or twice but we were also only a few points from winning on a lot of occasions, so we were collectively good (You dont get into winning positions of the back of a single player.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 16 September, 2020 11:10

I think Cobus' influence was more than the obvious intecepts and breaks, he was scrappy and determined, his defensive work was excellent using his speed to make saving tackles or sweep up. He was also a pretty senior figure in the squad which is significant.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 16 September, 2020 14:12

Quote:
LeicesterSaint
I think Cobus' influence was more than the obvious intecepts and breaks, he was scrappy and determined, his defensive work was excellent using his speed to make saving tackles or sweep up. He was also a pretty senior figure in the squad which is significant.

Exactly, his work off the ball in defence was to a very high standard, particularly sweeping behind the defensive line.
He didn't need to, he would probably have gained the shirt on the flashy try scoring alone but he did the hard yards every game.
Which is why he was in the right place to make some of his try saving tackles

It is very difficult to compare Corbus with the present challenges for Saints 9 shirt, he was reaching the autumn of his career they are just starting and with huge opportunity in front of them but I am yet to see the 'off the ball' work, particularly defence, replicated
Which is worrying and if that element of the game is not being coached then perhaps it is some of the reason why we are so poor in defence.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 16 September, 2020 14:16

I think Taylor is looking good in that regard, does always seem to be the one busting a gut to get back, doesn't have Cobus' pace or perhaps strength but at least the right attitude.

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: Deesaint (IP Logged)
Date: 16 September, 2020 14:22

Did he come from Saracens ?

Re: Boyd 'embarrassed' by performance against Tigers
Posted by: LeicesterSaint (IP Logged)
Date: 16 September, 2020 14:34

Yup, say what you will about the way they build/kept the squad but both he and Isiekwe seem to be standing out so far post-resumption on that front.

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