FAILURE, FRUSTRATION OR FLATLINE? 2026 SEASON REVIEW

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:06:29:17:38:38 by P G Tips.

No idea what Part 2 may hold so I hope I don't pre-empt it. I actually think last years team has been and gone.
The front 5 needs rebuilding TDT has gone, Sela isn't ready but Stuart will be back, Kepu needs to oust Dunn on merit and Ewels needs an enforcer partner. We need a bruising 8, is that Green? if so play him. Could Richards play the 8 role, he needs to get selected or he will be looking to move.

Spencer and Russell are irreplaceable but need to have 'real' replacements. Donoghue needs serious game time not just cameos.
Arundel needs a role and to see the ball more and we missed Will Muir. I actually though Russell looked an exhausted fly half. The treble season and the Lions were several games too far.
Then we have the centre quandary Hennessy and Mojo have to become first choice and Lawrence needs time to rebuild his game and his achilles!

TdG is a rock but I'm concerned about Santi Carerras an outstanding player but I'm struggling to remember a game in which he excelled.

If he doesn't click under Mike Prendergast I think he will be looking to move on. Prendergast is the key. Whether he is the man is doubted by some but JvG will select to provide him with the biggest chance of success. Blackett won't come back so MP is the future of our club but that won't happen instantly so I think next season is a hard reset. We need to look beyond Ben and Finn, this season when they haven't been there we have struggled. We await part 2 with interest.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Add a big and bruising lock that also leaps like a salmon (not just an enforcer) and I agree with everything you say above SW. It was notable how good Exeter have looked with their 2, it gives you such a powerful weapon to kick for touch...then actually catch the ball (and of course stop the oppo doing the same).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

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BathMatt53
Add a big and bruising lock that also leaps like a salmon (not just an enforcer) and I agree with everything you say above SW. It was notable how good Exeter have looked with their 2, it gives you such a powerful weapon to kick for touch...then actually catch the ball (and of course stop the oppo doing the same).

Would be nice but think that's a 27/28 solution unless something unexpected presents itself. Maybe Snyman remains unattached and is available for the second half of the season and we somehow have the cap space for him (I know some aren't a fan so not hunting for that debate - just making a point options are limited for high quality additions).

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shipwrecked
We need a bruising 8, is that Green? if so play him. .

I don’t think that is him personally. I think he can be a really good carrier just not in the Barbeary mould. Those players are rare at the moment - Bordeaux have won back to back Big Cups without that sort of 8 (obviously have Willis coming in now) and teams like Saints, Toulouse, Leinster don’t have a bruiser back there either really. I reckon Fisilau is a better comparison for Green with his potential for a rounded skill set

To add to these comments don’t forget Jaco Coetzee at 8. He will be like a new signing for the season ahead. I think that his absence, along with Will Stuart’s, played a major part in the decreasing effect of our so called bomb squad especially towards the end of the season. Get those two fit and I think we can be really positive albeit without TdT and Alfie.

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theredseat
Maybe Snyman remains unattached and is available for the second half of the season and we somehow have the cap space for him (I know some aren't a fan so not hunting for that debate - just making a point options are limited for high quality additions).

He did his ACL again end of March 2026 so he won't be playing for a while yet (well into next season presumably). Third time unlucky:

First ACL Tear (Left Knee) — August 2020
Second ACL Tear (Left Knee) — October 2021 (3 games after coming back, out of international rugby until 2023).
Third ACL Tear (Right Knee) — March 2026

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Last season flattered Bath this season you flattered to deceive somewhat.
The table looks good but for a "dominant" team there's been something unconvincing all season and we really saw that when it counted in big games.

For two seasons I think you've needed a clear out and have been amazed you've been able to hang onto certain expensive players and I think that's maybe been to the detriment of your squad. I absolutely believe that's the case for Sarries too and we don't have a treble to sooth our disappointments so it's not as if its gone badly wrong for you!

Last season the Prem as a League weak. This season it has been likewise with a slight upturn at the end of the season from ourselves and Bears making the bottom of top4 look a bit more competitive than it was for two thirds of the season.

I'd say the present still looks great and the future incredibly promising though.
I also think one of the hardest things to do is back up a winning season. Especially when you're a team who have failed for such a long time. I think it's too easy to slip into a "done it" mindset and I wonder if that's been a factor for Bath.

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PaulHerox
For two seasons I think you've needed a clear out and have been amazed you've been able to hang onto certain expensive players and I think that's maybe been to the detriment of your squad.

Such as? Certainly not Du Toit! Underhill presumably who I remember that you aren't a fan of.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

I've followed Bath since schooldays in the 60's and been a regular at the Rec since the Jack Rowell days and have experienced a whole range of emotions that regularly included failure and frustration. Since JVG took over his journey has been a delight and season 25/26 has once again been a pleasure. However the home defeat to Saints 2nds was a wake up call, the last minute away defeats to Tigers and Saints annoying, the away defeats to Bristol and Exeter worrying and to cap it off, the semi defeat. I think the loss of Lee Blackett has been significant and it is the most important issue to address, I'm frustrated we are still in the dark about this. If Mike Prendergast is to take over I really hope he brings something to the party to reinvigorate our attack. The loss of TDT and lineout issues need attention . To summarise the failure and frustration is real, we've not had the success of 24/25 but I think the club is in good hands and can improve on 25/26. Still haven't recovered from the semi but can't wait to start again.

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BathMatt53

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PaulHerox
For two seasons I think you've needed a clear out and have been amazed you've been able to hang onto certain expensive players and I think that's maybe been to the detriment of your squad.

Such as? Certainly not Du Toit! Underhill presumably who I remember that you aren't a fan of.

Was thinking the same, not sure what dead wood he’s referring to that needs clearing out.

Couldn’t disagree more that last season flattered Bath, we were far and away the best team in every facet of the game.

More of his usual anti Bath nonsense.

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OutsideBath

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BathMatt53

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PaulHerox
For two seasons I think you've needed a clear out and have been amazed you've been able to hang onto certain expensive players and I think that's maybe been to the detriment of your squad.

Such as? Certainly not Du Toit! Underhill presumably who I remember that you aren't a fan of.

Was thinking the same, not sure what dead wood he’s referring to that needs clearing out.

Couldn’t disagree more that last season flattered Bath, we were far and away the best team in every facet of the game.

More of his usual anti Bath nonsense.

But we were also fortunate last season and less so this. Other teams have worked us out (to a degree), we've been unlucky with injuries and our stars didn't hit the heights of last year. I don't see a season of failure but we were less dominant as the chasing pack came back to us. I think our primary challenge for next season is becoming less reliant, both emotionally and physically, on Finn and Spenno. TCS and especially BVDL look like the real deal and we have to trust them more. Most critically we have to decide about Ciaran and Santi. I'd go for Santi as the second 10 but he's not really made that argument this season whereas Ciaran looks like a game changer every time he gets the ball. Either way, we need a Plan B built around them not them subbing into the Finn shaped Plan A.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

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BathMatt53
Underhill presumably who I remember that you aren't a fan of.

He and Coka for a start, you have players in Pepper and Muir who can fill similar roles for a fraction of the cost.
Ewels and Dunn, top quality club players not good enough as starters at the very top level. Maybe you could afford to keep them and add those top class players but you'd need that money from elsewhere.
Harris and Carreras. Not needed in the first case and I'm not sure enough thought was given to how the later would work. Could be he just needs time and will come good ofc.

None of that is about "deadwood" which isn't a phrase I used and to me implies they're not doing a good job now which they mostly are but about getting the best team and part of that is balance and I think you're heavy at backrow and centre and light at lock and hooker in terms of quality.

To answer the question, failure. Context is everything. We are well funded compared to Saints/Exeter but the wheels came off our bus in the last two months of the season. It's a collective failure of our coaching management and playing squads. As shipwrecked mentioned on another thread we've been far to polite about this. I'm not going to rehearse all the arguments again in this post but it's one title defence/season that got away. It's not life or death but the never too high/low thing needs to go. In the business of pro sport it's about winning and we've won nothing this season.

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Treble
It's not life or death but the never too high/low thing needs to go.

I'm not sure that's what JvG means by that saying (I certainly don't think we were too bought into our own hype or too despondent at the end of the season). But there was no doubt we were not prepared or mentally in the right place, ever since the Bordeaux game.

It was still surprising to me that JvG ventured to criticise the replay situation after the game. For him - a loss of composure, perhaps.

I get the sense he felt that this was the best this squad was going to be and he tried to squeeze it to much. It certainly didn't seem to have the freedom and fitness at the end of the season as it did the one prior.

Much to ponder but we really need to get our players back into top form. Lawrence, Carreras etc. haven't become poor players overnight.

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The Bear

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Treble
It's not life or death but the never too high/low thing needs to go.

I'm not sure that's what JvG means by that saying (I certainly don't think we were too bought into our own hype or too despondent at the end of the season). But there was no doubt we were not prepared or mentally in the right place, ever since the Bordeaux game.

It was still surprising to me that JvG ventured to criticise the replay situation after the game. For him - a loss of composure, perhaps.

I get the sense he felt that this was the best this squad was going to be and he tried to squeeze it to much. It certainly didn't seem to have the freedom and fitness at the end of the season as it did the one prior.

Much to ponder but we really need to get our players back into top form. Lawrence, Carreras etc. haven't become poor players overnight.

Our most important players next season are Will Stuart, Archie Griffin and Billy Sela. If they can stay fit (and we can manage their minutes effectively) then we'll get the scrum platform back that gives Finn the room to play. If one or more get broken, or Will doesn't make it back to his BIL form, then things get a lot more difficult all round.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

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joethefanatic

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The Bear

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Treble
It's not life or death but the never too high/low thing needs to go.

I'm not sure that's what JvG means by that saying (I certainly don't think we were too bought into our own hype or too despondent at the end of the season). But there was no doubt we were not prepared or mentally in the right place, ever since the Bordeaux game.

It was still surprising to me that JvG ventured to criticise the replay situation after the game. For him - a loss of composure, perhaps.

I get the sense he felt that this was the best this squad was going to be and he tried to squeeze it to much. It certainly didn't seem to have the freedom and fitness at the end of the season as it did the one prior.

Much to ponder but we really need to get our players back into top form. Lawrence, Carreras etc. haven't become poor players overnight.

Our most important players next season are Will Stuart, Archie Griffin and Billy Sela. If they can stay fit (and we can manage their minutes effectively) then we'll get the scrum platform back that gives Finn the room to play. If one or more get broken, or Will doesn't make it back to his BIL form, then things get a lot more difficult all round.

Why does no one mention Jamie Bhatti. Surely he will make a difference?

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PaulHerox

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BathMatt53
Underhill presumably who I remember that you aren't a fan of.

He and Coka for a start, you have players in Pepper and Muir who can fill similar roles for a fraction of the cost.
Ewels and Dunn, top quality club players not good enough as starters at the very top level. Maybe you could afford to keep them and add those top class players but you'd need that money from elsewhere.

Well each to their own but I sure wouldn't swap Ewels for Nick Isiekwe or Joe Cokanasiga for Max Malins...I also doubt that (England International) Pepper and Muir are going to be 'a fraction of the cost' of Sam U and Joe but of course neither of us have the payroll info. I wonder how much Elliot Daly has re-signed for? Are an ageing Jamie George, Theo Dan James Hadfield (who?), Eoghan Clarke (again, who?) really that superior to Frost, Kepu and an ageing Dunn?

My point is that every club has its ins and outs to cover the positions and balance the books, that wasn't Baths problem this season IMO it was some key injuries and some out of form top players along with some other sides really hitting their straps at the end (Tigers, Exeter).

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

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Bath Hammer
Why does no one mention Jamie Bhatti. Surely he will make a difference?

Because he's basically a straight swap for Francois van Wyk I assume.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

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shipwrecked
N We need a bruising 8, is that Green? if so play him. Could Richards play the 8 role, he needs to get selected or he will be looking to move.

Don't forget Dan du Preez SW.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Swapping out supposed “cheaper” players for superstars just isn’t possible in the salary cap era. Perhaps you know a workaround that enables that PaulHerox?

To me the team seemed to run out of steam from Bordeaux onwards. Some of that will be mental, some of that physical as the injuries started to bite and people didn’t get a rest.

I’m not keen to question JvG but some selections did seem… odd, given the context. Finn against Newcastle, Redpath not starting both spring to mind. I also feel that Spencer and Finn played far too much, i hope next year we’re able to get them off at the 50/60 minute mark in games that are clearly already won (Quins and Newcastle games spring to mind again).

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BathMatt53

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Bath Hammer
Why does no one mention Jamie Bhatti. Surely he will make a difference?

Because he's basically a straight swap for Francois van Wyk I assume.

Who has played an understated but significant role over the past 2 years. Bhatti can do the same.

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Bath Hammer

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BathMatt53

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Bath Hammer
Why does no one mention Jamie Bhatti. Surely he will make a difference?

Because he's basically a straight swap for Francois van Wyk I assume.

Who has played an understated but significant role over the past 2 years. Bhatti can do the same.

Yes, definitely agree - a key cog in the squad.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

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BathRob
I also feel that Spencer and Finn played far too much, i hope next year we’re able to get them off at the 50/60 minute mark in games that are clearly already won (Quins and Newcastle games spring to mind again).

yes, both Bernard van der Linde and TCS look more than capable deputies (starting or off the bench) to me.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Bhatti did really well for us in the short time he was with us, he is a seasoned International and from the games I have watched is an excellent operator who holds his own in the set piece and a real wrecking ball in the loose. From friends who know him better the word they use for him is a seriously Hard Man and a really good signing.

Let us hope they are right.

I remember Bhatti well, when he first arrived he was a penalty giving machine. After a few games he turned it around and finished really strongly - him and Stuart dominated many a time. I like him as a replacement for van Wyk and think he could go really well for us

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BathRob
I also feel that Spencer and Finn played far too much, i hope next year we’re able to get them off at the 50/60 minute mark in games that are clearly already won (Quins and Newcastle games spring to mind again).

I also feel that Spencer's iron grip on the 'gameplan' can be a bit too tight. Discipline is admirable, and obviously beloved of coaches, but Spencer only really seems to allow himself free rein when a game is completely buried. Using him as a finisher occasionally might free us up to play a bit more.

Having said that - if he'd been on for the final few minutes against Exeter, and wanted the ball out, I'm sure the forwards would have been more inclined to let him have it.

I think jury's out a bit on Bhatti for me. He's not played a huge amount this year (I believe more not selected with a few injuries mixed in as well but someone else may know better here). Glasgow are a good side but even so you'd hope a 36 cap international would have been knocking the door down a bit more to get on the field.

Replacing van Wyk is low key a real challenge for anyone. I don't think he missed any games through injury since joining until a bit of a freak leg wound a few months ago and even then he was back after a week off and never someone to worry about at set piece either

I might be in the minority, and I'm not seeking to change anyone's opinion but I consider this season a success. After so many years of mediocrity, going down fighting bravely in two semis to more than worthy opponents feels to me like an incredible achievement, and I thoroughly enjoyed every second of this season (the 120 seconds at the end of the Exe game aside!).

As the days have passed since the semi, I've become more sanguine and much prouder of what we accomplished. We gave the Euro champs their hardest match of the tournament. We scored a hatful of tries all year. We played some beautiful rugby (define beauty!) and were truly hard to beat every single game. We also got some bad luck, with Messi going down just when we needed him.

Not going to try to argue with anyone's view about how this season hasn't delivered for them, but I feel that our expectations were set a little too high following last season's "beyond our wildest dreams" finish. 6 PREM winners in 7 years or whatever just proves how difficult it is to progress once you've reached the summit, for many reasons, especially the salary cap, but moreso the fact that the big Euro Cup takes so much out of your domestic efforts. I'm still pleased we tried (but ultimately failed) to fight on both fronts this year- Europe was awesome, the Saints QF, Bordeaux away.

I'll be disappointed this time next year if we're in the same position. I feel we that after a rest and a reset we should come back stronger and wiser. But I thought we had a good season. I loved it all. I can't wait to see what the core of the new group that's emerging, led by the likes of Ewels, Reid, Bayliss, Pepper, Mojo, TdG, can go onto achieve. Oh, and we're getting a new stadium. Happy days! ... especially when compared to oh so much of what has gone before.

“Bath have finished 2nd, 1st and 3rd in the past three seasons.”

A small point of order, Bath finished 2nd, 1st and 2nd in the past 3 seasons. I believe we have also been in the top 4 for every round of those seasons, so there has been plenty of consistency with just a small variation in outcome - although that amounts to a lack of trophies this time.

This season is done so the key question is what does success look like for Bath in 26/27? An optimistic view might be 2 trophies (Prem and Prem Cup titles), realistic 1 trophy, pessimistic 0 trophies. The big cup is out reach given the French/ROW and shadow international teams.

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Treble
The big cup is out reach given the French/ROW and shadow international teams.

Just depends entirely on the draw.

[www.epcrugby.com]

The key principles of the Investec Champions Cup draw are as follows:

• Each pool of six will contain two clubs from each of the leagues.

• Clubs from the same URC Shield cannot be in the same pool. Therefore, the Irish qualifiers – Leinster Rugby, Munster Rugby and Connacht Rugby – will each be drawn or allocated into separate pools. The same principle applies for the South African qualifiers, DHL Stormers, Vodacom Bulls and Lions.

• There will be no matches between clubs from the same league, so in order to create the pool stage fixtures, each club will play four matches against four different clubs who are not from the same league, either home or away.

For the purposes of the draw, the clubs will be divided into two tiers, Tier 1 and Tier 2. The four clubs in Tier 1 will be Union Bordeaux Bègles (2026 Investec Champions Cup winners), and the 2026 Gallagher PREM, URC and TOP 14 winners.

So Bath would be in Tier 2 and could basically meet anyone except a Prem team.

TOP 14: Stade Toulousain, Montpellier Hérault Rugby, Stade Français Paris, Racing 92, Section Paloise, Stade Rochelais, ASM Clermont Auvergne, Union Bordeaux Bègles

United Rugby Championship: Leinster Rugby, Vodacom Bulls, Glasgow Warriors, DHL Stormers, Munster Rugby, Cardiff Rugby, Lions, Connacht Rugby

A favourable draw would presumably mean home advantage all the way to the semis again? I just pray that we don't have a SA team away, but probably about time we did.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

It could be best to be drawn with Saints, which would mean no other champions sides and we would have to play the one that was in there. Then it would be about getting two winnable home matches and possibly one away to get a good run.

But personally I would prefer to win the Premiership again, so top 2 must be the target, which will require a consistent effort though out the season.

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dcsh
It could be best to be drawn with Saints

We can't

• There will be no matches between clubs from the same league

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Home advantage is huge in the EPCR.
Despite losing to Toulon, we still managed to top our group, which meant home R16 & QF. Critical I'd say particularly in the Saints game. Had we beaten Toulon and got a home country semi, the result against UBB would have been a whole lot closer.
Not being champions and Tier 1 makes our task all the harder next season. Topping our group against UBB, Toulouse (probably) or Leinster will require some exceptional play and luck with the draw. An away QF against one of those Tier 1s probably beckons. So yes, I'd rate our chances next year as slimmer than this.

BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart

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BathMatt53

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dcsh
It could be best to be drawn with Saints

We can't

• There will be no matches between clubs from the same league

That is my exact point! We wouldn’t have to play the champion in our pool, hence a slightly easier task to get through.

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dr.bath1865
I might be in the minority, and I'm not seeking to change anyone's opinion but I consider this season a success. After so many years of mediocrity, going down fighting bravely in two semis to more than worthy opponents feels to me like an incredible achievement, and I thoroughly enjoyed every second of this season (the 120 seconds at the end of the Exe game aside!).
As the days have passed since the semi, I've become more sanguine and much prouder of what we accomplished. We gave the Euro champs their hardest match of the tournament. We scored a hatful of tries all year. We played some beautiful rugby (define beauty!) and were truly hard to beat every single game. We also got some bad luck, with Messi going down just when we needed him.

Not going to try to argue with anyone's view about how this season hasn't delivered for them, but I feel that our expectations were set a little too high following last season's "beyond our wildest dreams" finish. 6 PREM winners in 7 years or whatever just proves how difficult it is to progress once you've reached the summit, for many reasons, especially the salary cap, but moreso the fact that the big Euro Cup takes so much out of your domestic efforts. I'm still pleased we tried (but ultimately failed) to fight on both fronts this year- Europe was awesome, the Saints QF, Bordeaux away.

I'll be disappointed this time next year if we're in the same position. I feel we that after a rest and a reset we should come back stronger and wiser. But I thought we had a good season. I loved it all. I can't wait to see what the core of the new group that's emerging, led by the likes of Ewels, Reid, Bayliss, Pepper, Mojo, TdG, can go onto achieve. Oh, and we're getting a new stadium. Happy days! ... especially when compared to oh so much of what has gone before.

As I posted previously, personally like you, Dr. Bath, I have enjoyed this season and we may not be in the minority but the question related to failure , frustration and flatlining. I'm sure the objective for JVG, coaches and players was to retain our status as Prem champions, they failed and that has led to frustration and a feeling we have flat lined or worse. But overall our performances for 3 seasons have been welcome after years of under achievement. So yes, happy days!

In terms of the thread headline I think the players should view the season from a different perspective from the fans.

As a player, sport is all about winning and nothing else matters, so the players would rightly view the season as a frustrating failure. I'm guessing number 1 priority was the CC, which was always going to be difficult as soon as we lost to Toulon. Retaining a league title is extremely difficult as there is always a bit of been their done that not especially excited about it now. After losing the main objective the players did seem to lose focus and energy in retaining the title. Difficult for the players to view 2025/26 season with much positivity.

From a fans perspective it was disappointing, but we still had entertaining rugby to watch and some games with electric atmosphere at the Rec so we can find a lot of positives from 2025/26. Even when we are a bit down we can always look back to last season and all the good stuff that happened.

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dcsh

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BathMatt53

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dcsh
It could be best to be drawn with Saints

We can't

• There will be no matches between clubs from the same league

That is my exact point! We wouldn’t have to play the champion in our pool, hence a slightly easier task to get through.

This would definitely be the best draw if it's possible. We then wouldn't have to play a tier 1 team at all in the group stages. Feels like yet another flaw in the current system.

BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart

Very good thought provoking article.

I will come back to the playing side in a moment but without doubt the "game changing" events of the season were as PG mentioned in his report the granting of Planning Permission for the development of a fit for purpose arena at the REC.

And of equal importance the share/debt transfer between Mr Craig and Mr Dyson which means that the development can be financed, and equally and I sincerely hope that it will be "over specified" so that it wins awards for being the best small stadium in the World and receives the same sorts of accolades that the new Tottenham Stadium did when it was commissioned.

Just as we want Bath Rugby to be known for exciting, winning rugby on the field we want it to be known for excellence off the field.

On the rugby side I feel, and hope, that JVG and the coaching team are waiting for the end of the World Cup next year. Any player who we have/are approaching being world class with the right attitude will be looking to be picked for their national team next year. They also would not take the risk now of moving clubs/countries and putting their position in jeopardy.

Consequently the lack of recruitment, also constrained by the salary cap, could be because they are "saving" up salary cap for a few signings next year. Nobody any good, or memorable, would be prepared to join on a one year contract.

I think that with Finn and Ben both reaching 34 in the Autumn we need a lot more husbanding of their physical condition. I recall when Lee Mears was breaking onto the scene that Humphreys would play 50 minutes and Mears 30 and then occasionally that was switched around.

As people have said having Will Stuart and Jaco Coetzee back is like recruiting 2 fantastic players. Jamie Bhatti will, I hope, be a solid replacement for FVW.

I think BVDL/TCS will get much more game time along with Ciaran Donoghue and Santi Carreras.

The same for Richards and Green.

The future looks good!

We need to develop a much more expansive "all court" game.....but as we all know everything comes from having at least parity in the forwards.

Having spent a couple of weeks reflecting on it all, I think we have to be positive and philosophical.

We won three trophies last year – that's only been done once before, by Leicester with that one-off Zurich play-off thing many years ago. So we've had three trophies in three seasons since JVG arrived, even if they came in one purple patch, and we were never going to back that up this season. Let's not forget how much physical, mental and emotional energy the squad burnt through to achieve last year's success – we didn't look as fit or sharp this season and other sides were fresher.

As for the Big Cup – my view is that it's a waste of time competing for in this era. It doesn't matter whether we get an easy draw or a home semi, I just don't see us beating UBB, Toulouse or Leinster. It would have been interesting to play UBB last year when Lee Blackett had the attack working well, but I suspect we'd have come up just short as Saints did.

So where next season is concerned, I think we should prioritise regaining the Prem title, drop down to the Challenge Cup and see if we can bag that for a third time. Lord knows what barbarous format has been cooked up for the Prem Cup next season.

One final thought, it did feel like our season got off to a terrible start with injuries – I'm pretty sure that Munster friendly left some key folk crocked – Donoghue, BVDL etc and that reduced options in key positions.

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Mini Maximus

So where next season is concerned, I think we should prioritise regaining the Prem title, drop down to the Challenge Cup and see if we can bag that for a third time. Lord knows what barbarous format has been cooked up for the Prem Cup next season.

.

I don't have any interest in another Challenge Cup win personally. I don't like having Big Cup teams drop down and while winning it last year was nice after so long without anything it wouldn't mean a great deal to do it again now.

If we do end up there I'm happy to send heavily rotated teams and leave Finn, Stuart, Spencer, Obano etc at home with their feet up and just let it play out. It might be less intense but there was still questions over getting selection right last year when we had Euro knocks and the Prem run in to deal with. Challenge Cup not worth risking anyone for me.

Not sure TRS, I just feel that the EPCR Challenge cup is the achievable European trophy after the Champions Cup cap privileged teams have sailed through. Isn't it a reflection on the poor state of the CC that we need two competitions? Even then there is a strong showing from French teams in the finals.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

We have to bear in mind what we are providing the playing public especially with the high cost of season tickets so I feel we have to play most of our “star” players, maybe with some minor rotation, in our home games in both the Prem & European Cup. What we do away is another matter. Also, teams don’t stand still. A few years ago we would have considered La Rochelle as unbeatable! I agree with JvG’s view that the Prem & Challenge Cups are a development opportunity.

I am surprised at the negativity on 'ere over the big cup.

Of course we should compete and of course we could/can win.

Next season semi-finals will be at neutral venues with neutral/independent TV feeds (!!).

The coaches/players train to be the best and want to play the best to test themselves.....I suspect the crowd at the Rec would rather see Toulouse coming to Bath than Pau...or the like.

The Prem Cup should be selected from 2nd team players and under 25 players.

For me:

1) League
2) Big Cup
3) anything else
.....
4) Prem Cup

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53
For me:
1) League
2) Big Cup
3) anything else
.....
4) Prem Cup

I agree Matt, however, what do you do if you get a home CC fixture? You have to pick the best side even if you don't have it as a priority. Sort of forced into it.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

shipwrecked

Quote:

BathMatt53
For me:
1) League
2) Big Cup
3) anything else
.....
4) Prem Cup

I agree Matt, however, what do you do if you get a home CC fixture? You have to pick the best side even if you don't have it as a priority. Sort of forced into it.

Yes, that's just me as a fan and what I would want at the end of the season. Of course its still quite possible to rotate a league fixture and finish top 4 which is all that is needed these days for a (neutral) semi so an individual CC fixture is always going to want a 'finals' team.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

I wouldn't want to see us punting the Big Cup by any means. Incredibly tough and unlikely to win and we can't count ourselves among the favourites but we should (and will I believe) go all out to do well in the group stages and then we can take stock.

Too many variables beyond that at this stage and even the groups are very draw dependent. Get Saints as our top seed and / or favourable home away splits and we can set ourselves up nicely. Upsets can happen, other big clubs can take each other out and paths can open up. No need to write anything off in June even if the Prem is back as main focus.

Quote:

theredseat
Get Saints as our top seed and / or favourable home away splits

Yes irrespective of what happens with the Tier 1 teams we could end up away at Glasgow, Stormers, Bulls, Montpellier etc. I'm just hoping for a couple of nice away day trips (that I can afford) at this stage tbh.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Racing away would be nice. Easy to get to and would like to watch Bath in that stadium

Quote:

theredseat
Racing away would be nice. Easy to get to and would like to watch Bath in that stadium

Racing are leaving La Defense arena at the end of 2026 and are relocating to Colombes.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

theredseat
Racing away would be nice. Easy to get to and would like to watch Bath in that stadium

Racing are leaving La Defense arena at the end of 2026 and are relocating to Colombes.

Hadn't seen that. Better get in there quick then...

Report I just Goggled suggests they may be back for occasional games. Dunno if hosting Bath would qualify or if it would be available etc

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

theredseat
Racing away would be nice. Easy to get to and would like to watch Bath in that stadium

Racing are leaving La Defense arena at the end of 2026 and are relocating to Colombes.

Another 10 minutes drive an it would have been Racing 93!


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

On our bucket list is Munster at Thomond Park and then some golf at Ballybunion or Lahinch!!

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

theredseat
Racing away would be nice. Easy to get to and would like to watch Bath in that stadium

Racing are leaving La Defense arena at the end of 2026 and are relocating to Colombes.

so the capcity is going from 45k to 15k? what sort of attendances do they get at La Defense?

Quote:

Bath Supporter Jack
On our bucket list is Munster at Thomond Park and then some golf at Ballybunion or Lahinch!!

Surely these are made up names BSJ places called "painful foot" and "French inch" in Ireland, can't possibly be true.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

Woodpecker

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

theredseat
Racing away would be nice. Easy to get to and would like to watch Bath in that stadium

Racing are leaving La Defense arena at the end of 2026 and are relocating to Colombes.

so the capcity is going from 45k to 15k? what sort of attendances do they get at La Defense?

Think their owner indicated they need attendance of around 22k to break even, which they don't always achieve.

As for Bath next season I would like 2 French teams away in the CC pool stages again.

Personally believe the club can only focus on PL or CC and not both, especially given that our front row is weaker for next season.

Fab courses Shippie

We were at Lahinch and were told to start on the 7th (?) which was 130 yards. We stand on the tee and have no clue where we are going. Finally a local came along and told us to aim at a small white rock 120 yards away and go over the brow of a hill beyond......we would still be there now otherwise.

Ballybunion the first hole goes over a graveyard.....my ball decided it wanted to be interred!

I would also like a French away trip, or Munster away - both are bucket list items that I will be in position to tick off for the first time!

I get the distinct impression that for many the Champions Cup is simply an alternative to getting brochures for Tui or Jet2.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

Bath Supporter Jack
On our bucket list is Munster at Thomond Park and then some golf at Ballybunion or Lahinch!!

Haven't been to Thomond Park yet, still hoping , but have played golf at both of those courses on a 2012 trip. Challenging but the conditions can make them more difficult. Ballybunion was one of the most difficult days of my sporting life...

Quote:

shipwrecked
I get the distinct impression that for many the Champions Cup is simply an alternative to getting brochures for Tui or Jet2.

Playing and watching rugby has taken me to many places at home and abroad. My life has been enriched as a consequence sw and long may it continue

Quote:

shipwrecked
Not sure TRS, I just feel that the EPCR Challenge cup is the achievable European trophy after the Champions Cup cap privileged teams have sailed through. Isn't it a reflection on the poor state of the CC that we need two competitions? Even then there is a strong showing from French teams in the finals.

I do feel that us rugby folk can be somewhat snobby about tournaments – can you imagine Arsenal not being pleased to win the UEFA Cup (or whatever it is called these days). The semi-finals this year featured Montpellier, Ulster, our conquerors Exeter and Dragons – that's a pretty high standard.

Arguably losing away at Benetton did us a favour last year because we had the best of both worlds and then won the Little Cup.

Quote:

Treble

Quote:

shipwrecked
I get the distinct impression that for many the Champions Cup is simply an alternative to getting brochures for Tui or Jet2.

Playing and watching rugby has taken me to many places at home and abroad. My life has been enriched as a consequence sw and long may it continue

Same, watching the rugby is an excellent excuse for a brilliant break seeing new places and spending some time with mates away from the trials and tribulations of normal life. After all, the rugby is only 80 mins of the weekend.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Over the last few years we* have enjoyed some fantastic away trips.

* is me and my two adult sons who are now 32 and 29.

I book flights and hotels, one son does the food and drink and finds extremely interesting places to go to, both expensive and value for money. The other son does cultural things to visit....one element of his stag weekend coming up will be attending an evensong at an Oxford College....and then some serious larking around!

My role is very simple...I pay!

Quote:

Mini Maximus

Quote:

shipwrecked
Not sure TRS, I just feel that the EPCR Challenge cup is the achievable European trophy after the Champions Cup cap privileged teams have sailed through. Isn't it a reflection on the poor state of the CC that we need two competitions? Even then there is a strong showing from French teams in the finals.

I do feel that us rugby folk can be somewhat snobby about tournaments – can you imagine Arsenal not being pleased to win the UEFA Cup (or whatever it is called these days). The semi-finals this year featured Montpellier, Ulster, our conquerors Exeter and Dragons – that's a pretty high standard.

Arguably losing away at Benetton did us a favour last year because we had the best of both worlds and then won the Little Cup.

I don't think it's snobby to say it's the Tier 2 European competition. That's just what it is and I don't think it's the level we should be competing at right now any more than Arsenal should be in the UEFA Cup.

Thanks PGT, for a really good, well balanced piece.

Maybe it's the ups and downs of my 40+ years of supporting Scotland, but I feel quite phlegmatic about last season. I didn't really think we'd better 2024-25 and am reasonably happy with what we did do - although I'm sure all at Farleigh won't be and there will a lot of planning over the summer about how to correct the problems.

It was disappointing how the wheels came off the bogey in the last few weeks but I still enjoy turning up at the Rec with a sense of anticipation rather than gloom! September will see the 30th anniversary of our first game at the Rec and I've no regrets that we moved here in 2010 to be within walking distance of our seats. Here's to next season.

Spent a couple of weeks reflecting and I think it should be classed as a failure. There are a lot of reasonable excuses, fitness, tiredness, Stuart, Muir and Finn's injuries, Big Cup, Lee, but ultimately our resources were deeper than last season and our performances worse and gameplan more limited. The season went out with a whimper.

Positives with the blooding of youngsters, lots of lessons, but we need the hunger back.

I agree with Hasta. Of course it was far better than our darkest years but that’s a pretty low bar. I always felt that we had the most complete & deepest squad with the best coaches, although that was messed up somewhat. We should have had it on us to establish a period of dominance & that primarily meant winning the Prem again. That was too important to get sidetracked by the small chance of European glory. Some of our later performances were disappointing. Exeter overtook us by winning most of our encounters. Leicester are now at least on par with us & Northampton probably ahead. Our backs play was insipid, Gleeson wasn’t the answer, we relied too much on TdT. Our period of dominance could well be over soon after it started, moreorless a flash in the pan!

Quote:

shipwrecked
I get the distinct impression that for many the Champions Cup is simply an alternative to getting brochures for Tui or Jet2.

A good analogy SW and for me the CC is another excuse to go and watch rugby in France. If we get the nightmare draw of away trips to Ireland or South Africa then I’ll just go and watch a French team in the CC. It’s not the same as watching Bath though.

Was there really that much difference in our performances year on year? Off the top of my head both seasons we’ve lost away to Saints, Bristol and Tigers, and won pretty much everything else. Saints at home was the only one I can remember.

In fact looking at the relevant league tables 24/25 we had 72 points, this year 69 points. Last year points difference of +234 this year +222. Last year BP 16 this year 17. Last year W14 L4 this year W13 L3.

Empirical evidence suggests this year our league form was broadly similar to last year. Our eyes are telling us we’ve been flat and the attack has looked blunted, but the numbers don’t support it.

The two differences I can see are we lost the semi this year, last year we didn’t and this year the rest of the Prem caught up. The gap to the top has narrowed significantly, which I quite enjoy!

I agree with much of this. For the last third of the season, when good sides are building their performance, ours was slowly slipping away. However, I have come to the conclusion that it is unrealistic for fans to be happy only when their sides win all the time. Last year was great, of course, but I think all we can really hope for is for our team to be competitive in whatever competitions they are in. On that basis, two semis is not a disaster. I do worry about how we will ever score a try next year, though, without either TdT or some sort of clue how to get something meaningful out of our very talented set of backs.

I think that if you look more closely into those results some of them were less than convincing, maybe fortunate & our luck eventually ran out. I’m thinking, for instance, of the home win against Exeter. We were drawing & only won by an amazing & maybe fortunate rolling maul following 40 phases in the last play of the game. Out of 5 matches against Exeter that was our only win. By contrast Saints had a number of really convincing wins. I would say the overall level of our performances in 24/25 was considerably higher, therefore a decline, despite the acquisition of Carreras & Arundell, who delivered a lot of tries early on.

Quote:

GoneWest
I do worry about how we will ever score a try next year, though, without either TdT or some sort of clue how to get something meaningful out of our very talented set of backs.

That really worries me to even get in the top 4 next season. It will be time for Ciarran, Bernard & Louie to say fit & step up🤗

Quote:

Bath Hammer

Quote:

GoneWest
I do worry about how we will ever score a try next year, though, without either TdT or some sort of clue how to get something meaningful out of our very talented set of backs.

That really worries me to even get in the top 4 next season. It will be time for Ciarran, Bernard & Louie to say fit & step up🤗

Agree, there will be Saints, Tigers, Sarries, Exeter to beat Bristol are a perennial pain to beat, Quins with new management and Fubank and NRB with huge resources. My view is we will slip before consolidating mid term prospects are very good. We took 1 from 3 during a window of opportunity that is now closing.


Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.

Quote:

BathRob
Last year W14 L4 this year W13 L3.

This year in the league was actually W13 L5.

But when you include playoffs
Last year W16 L4, lost 20%
This year W13 L6, lost 32%

I think the difference (apart from the trophies) is that was lost matches this season when we put out strong teams. Last season we rested player and effectively sacrificed several matches due to having already secured top spot, so I don’t think people really consider them as losses in the same way, so last seasons 20% loss rate feels more like 10% as 2 losses didn’t matter.

Quote:

dcsh

Quote:

BathRob
Last year W14 L4 this year W13 L3.

This year in the league was actually W13 L5.

But when you include playoffs
Last year W16 L4, lost 20%
This year W13 L6, lost 32%

I think the difference (apart from the trophies) is that was lost matches this season when we put out strong teams. Last season we rested player and effectively sacrificed several matches due to having already secured top spot, so I don’t think people really consider them as losses in the same way, so last seasons 20% loss rate feels more like 10% as 2 losses didn’t matter.

Apologies yes that’s a typo. I can only think of one loss where we had a full bore 23 and that’s Northampton at home. Saints away, Bristol away, and Tigers away were under strength teams IIRC.

The facts stay the same, compared to last year we are largely the same, just the rest of the league caught up with us.

My overall point is probably this: we’re still in an excellent place and I would imagine in a competitive place next year.

Quote:

BathRob
[
My overall point is probably this: we’re still in an excellent place and I would imagine in a competitive place next year.

Fully agreed.

But I would only classify the away match to Northampton as the only time when we deliberately didn’t field players to rest them. Bristol away, Saints home, Tigers away and Exeter away & semi were all as full strength as we could be with injuries/form.
My point was that last season except for the early season losses to Bristol then Saints away we won every match we tried to win, which combined with the cup and euro run gave an impression of invincibility which has led to a feeling of disappointment for many this season in comparison.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2026:06:28:16:43:10 by dcsh.

The stats do show that we were only fractionally off where we were last year. The key difference for me was that the Spencer-Russell axis peaked at the right time last season whereas this season they both were carrying injuries in the run-in - That shoulder crunch of Ben's scoring against Sarries was the moment our season went up in smoke.

Three semi-finals is excellent though. We are still tough to beat and we still have an incredible amount of talent available for next season.

I spent most of the first half of the season thinking, 'wow, if we could play a full 90 min like that we could beat anyone', or 'if our lineout had worked, we'd have won by more' or 'here come the bomb squad, all will be well'. and most of the second thinking 'how on earth did we win that?' or ' how is our attack so poor we can't score for a whole half?, or 'what bomb squad?'
In other words, we spent the whole season not reaching our potential and despite that reached 3 semi-finals. Yes Exeter, Saints & Tigers caught up this season, but we let them and I am confident that our potential is greater than theirs. My hope is that we get closer to our potential next season and if that happens, a good season will ensue.

BATH supporter since 1975

Adopted players:
2015/6 Tom Homer
2016/7 Matt Banahan
2017/8 Jeff Williams
2018/9 Victor Delmas
2019/20 Semesa Rokoduguni
2020/21 Will Stuart

Quote:

jayeatman
I spent most of the first half of the season thinking, 'wow, if we could play a full 90 min like that we could beat anyone',

Well the extra 10 mins would have helped when the bomb squad were effective - less so at the end of the season!

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Ha!
You can tell I'm in World Cup mode!

I can see a potential of a mid table season from a half glass full viewpoint unless our emerging players stay fit & really progress. A probable decline in the front & 2nd rows cannot be discounted & unless Lawrence rediscovers his previous form also at centre. It doesn’t take much of a fall off to start loosing matches we might previously have won. If we had kept key players fiit & retained an effective attack we could & should have won the Prem this year. That was an opportunity lost. It was always going to be difficult going forward.