Keeping the Faith... Saints v Bath

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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:04:19:08:29 by hasta.

Thanks to Rokobilly for his excellent preview 👏

Thanks Rokobilly.

Good preview & I like the look of your starting XV-though I suspect it may have more Academy players/squad players.

There was a notice about Alfie Barbeary being ready "in the latter rounds" so we may see him in the XXIII.

As well as respecting the ball I would like to see more variety in the kicking strategy, better executed, with stronger chase. Also-in addition to driven mauls from lineouts close to the opposition line, some strike moves.

I want to see more of what we enjoyed in the last two months of last season's Premiership. Not so much of what went before.

PG

Thanks Roko.
Interesting call on the team make ups, do clubs want to hit the Prem with a bang or risk early poor form by taking the longer view of protecting players in cup games?
Pro and cons.
I would lean towards the bang personally. Only so much you can achieve on the training pitch. It would make a nice change to see us higher up the table in early season.

Agree B4B, especially as we should have an edge in squad strength over those clubs who supply most to RWC.

I make it 7 of England's preliminary preparation squads plus 2 of Scotland's available to us at QF stage when Prem kicks off.

PG

Quote:

B4thB4ck
It would make a nice change to see us higher up the table in early season.

Don't you guys always start at the top?

Quote:

OldMarovian

Quote:

B4thB4ck
It would make a nice change to see us higher up the table in early season.

Don't you guys always start at the top?

Only until Ampthill get promoted.

Team Up:

Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit (debut), 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Miles Reid, 9 Ben Spencer, 10 Orlando Bailey, 11 Tom de Glanville, 12 Will Butt, 13 Max Ojomoh, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Matt Gallagher

Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Johannes Jonker, 19 GJ van Velze, 20 Chris Cloete, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Piers Francis, 23 Abdul-Khalik Akenzua Al-Kareem (debut)


Strong lineup!


PG

Only 5 of my guessed XV in the team!

Slightly surprised JVG has gone so strong. Expectations raised.

Northampton Saints XV: 1 Emmanuel Iyogun, 2 Robbie Smith, 3 Trevor Davison, 4 Alex Coles, 5 Chunya Munga, 6 Tom Pearson, 7 Sam Graham, 8 Juarno Augustus, 9 Tom James, 10 Fin Smith, 11 Tommy Freeman, 12 Rory Hutchinson, 13 Fraser Dingwall, 14 James Ramm, 15 George Furbank (c)

Replacements: 16 Curtis Langdon, 17 Ethan Waller, 18 Paul Hill, 19 Alex Moon, 20 Angus Scott-Young, 21 Archie McParland, 22 Toby Thame, 23 Tom Seabrook

Looks like a fun one!!!

With the possibility that the Jersey result will be erased and with Exeter at home we have a real chance of progressing in this competition. May explain the strength of the team selected.

With the possibility that the Jersey result will be erased and with Exeter at home we have a real chance of progressing in this competition. May explain the strength of the team selected.

Good luck Khalik when you come on! Hope it goes really well for you!

Wow that is a strong side out - hope performance can match expectations then and up against a decent Saints selection too

Does Khalik have the longest name to have played first team BBW?

One of the most significant pre-season hit-outs that we will have seen for many a long season!

The Strong Saints team makes me think that the coaches agreed that this would be a proper hit out. And a good idea. Should be interesting, and usually a good game on the Franklins Gardens surface.

Great to see TdT start and he should test Iyogun. Front five looks as strong as in many years. Roux and Ewels have a nice balance – Ewels back in BB&W feels like a new signing. A shame neither of our 8s play- but the back row has some real depth this year. I'd have Butt and Mojo the other way around, but numbers on backs mean very much nowadays anyway. Interesting Spencer is captain- no mention it's permanent for the season, but perhaps that should be presumed.

Exciting. Feels like the beginning of the season.

2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper

Quote:

dr.bath1865
The Strong Saints team makes me think that the coaches agreed that this would be a proper hit out.

Saints announced their team a couple of days ago I think, I assumed for this reason - i.e they are going in hard and wanted a 'proper' game.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

BathMatt53

Quote:

dr.bath1865
The Strong Saints team makes me think that the coaches agreed that this would be a proper hit out.

Saints announced their team a couple of days ago I think, I assumed for this reason - i.e they are going in hard and wanted a 'proper' game.

Given the mismatches we see in general in this tournament, it does feel like maybe a conversation has been had. Which, good.

Quote:

dr.bath1865
I'd have Butt and Mojo the other way around

Feels like you could perm Butt, Mojo, TdG in various ways .... always felt like TdG runs like a classic outside centre.

Quote:

dr.bath1865
I'd have Butt and Mojo the other way around

URGE TO KILL RISING.

Quote:

dr.bath1865
but numbers on backs mean very much nowadays anyway.

Urge to kill fading...

Quote:

hasta

Quote:

dr.bath1865
I'd have Butt and Mojo the other way around

URGE TO KILL RISING.

Quote:

dr.bath1865
but numbers on backs mean very much nowadays anyway.

Urge to kill fading...

Very good hasta

Notwithstanding the fact that they will of course swap around, I do like a big 12 in a tough game like this will be - to cause a bit of chaos off 1st phase (al la André Esterhuizen). Defences are so good these days sometimes it takes a bit of physical bullying to keep a defence honest and make a bit of space. Max O should get a bit of space when he is receiving off Will Butt...

...Or maybe its because Will Butt is my adoptee so I am waving his flag.

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

Dorset Boy
Good luck Khalik when you come on! Hope it goes really well for you!

Proud day DB- enjoy!

Any idea if he has been injured , or maybe rated v highly and going to be in the mix for firsts this season ahead of guys who have been playing so far like staddon, tonks and merigan?

Try Bath Tom Dunn

0-7 Spencer conv

Ted Hill try

0-14

Ojo try

0-21

Saints try

7-21

Try bonus! TdG

7-28

Try Saints

14-28

Lots of pens being conceded by Bath

Saints try

19-28 no conv

Try Bath Sam

19-35 HT

Crikey, is defence optional today for both sides?

When did we last score 5 tries before HT?

Try TdG

19-42 converted

Saints try!

26-42 both sides try bonus

Mistakes are spoiling our attacking game

Quote:

CoochieCoo
Try Bath Sam

Is that What Three Words that applies to Franklin's Gardens??

Try Saints

31-42 no conv

Try Saints

36-42 no conv

Listening on the radio, sounds like too many penalties and open doors !

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Throwing this away, c,mon Bath

12 tries and another 12 mins to go

Try Saints!

43-42 1 point game!

FT 43-42

Very disappointing after an excellent start. Hope losing momentum like that is not going to plague us when the season starts properly.

Same old Bath.

Didn't see the match, but based on the commentary above we were 26 - 42 at one stage. Did we stop playing, or did we run out of steam?

Also noticed that GVV was taken off 3 minutes after coming on as a sub - was this an injury?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:09:30:17:51:10 by FiveSticks.

Didn’t watch, but losing a huge lead has got to lead to questions about the players game management and ability to play under pressure.

Van Graan said:

"Matt Gallagher got taken off for a HIA so we will see where he is with that.

"GJ van Velze got taken off with something potentially with his calf.

"Quinn Roux got a knock to his shoulder but I didn't take him off because of it, this is a pre-season game so I took the precaution." Somersetlive

Just watching the score line, it seemed that the subs took the heat out of our game?

The radio commentary said jvg had a pre planned strategy re subs that wouldn't change no matter what the score/state of the game.

I was only half listening to the match tbh but I doubt in a league game we would have taken beno/dunn/tdt/ spencer off that early with the game still in the balance.

Whist the result was prob seen as secondary it would be good to get into a winning habit.

Imagine next week vs Exeter could be ugly if we put a strong team out against Edinburgh

Quote:

charlieboa
Imagine next week vs Exeter could be ugly if we put a strong team out against Edinburgh

That would be annoying if they sent a strong team away and put out a weak team at home for their fans!

But would be strange to arrange a friendly up in Scotland the same weekend as there's a fixture in a developmental competition and send the 'United side' up there! I wouldn't have organised the friendly of course because it seems to have created a tricky situation albeit the more chances there are for emerging players to get game time playing for Bath the better. The pragmatic solution would be to mix and match both sides, but if you're working on continuity and combinations that's not ideal. Anyway, good luck to whoever's writing the preview and choosing the side - like playing stick the tail on the donkey!

Won't most of the Edinburgh first XV be in France anyway? Can't see the point of a full first choice team up there...

Do you think we may mix and match a bit hasta? Try to get some combinations but not necessarily a first team for Edinburgh and a united / academy team for Exeter?

As you say I think Edinburgh have about 14 in the Scotland (not sure if they have others at rwc) compared to us only losing stuart/finn/redpath/russell.

I assumed we would name a similar team to face edinburgh that we intend to play falcons a week later but may well be wrong.

Could be value in trying to ensure 2 highly competitive games and just focus on getting some units playing together.

Even if they name a united/academy team for Exeter there could be some v good players involved, esp in the backrow. Maybe bayliss, cloete, coetzee for example if hill, underhill, barbeary , reid involved in Scotland.

Quote:

dcsh

Quote:

charlieboa
Imagine next week vs Exeter could be ugly if we put a strong team out against Edinburgh

That would be annoying if they sent a strong team away and put out a weak team at home for their fans!

Won’t bother me if the club field a weak team for Exeter and strong at Edinburgh if it helps our preparations for the more important upcoming Falcons match.

In my view to field a deliberately uncompetitive side on the Rec next weekend would demonstrate a complete lack of respect for the competition, for the opposition and for home fans.

I didn't catch any of this one - huge amount of interesting sport going on at the moment which is fun.

How did TdT, and the scrum generally, go?

Anyone know what Barbeary's status is now? JvG said a few weeks ago we'd see him 'at the back end' of the cup, so hopefully a start next time.

Wss only half listening on the radio- as you say lots of sport to try and stay over at the mo!

Scrum didn't sound as dominant as I hoped.

Wonder if they are limiting barbeary to one chance yo get injured before the real stuff starts. Or maybe the bubble wrap is taking longer than anticipated to unwrap.

On a serious note hopefully he is fine and the plan was always one 50 min hit out before the prem starts. Interested to see if he is fit which game he plays in!

Thanks Charlie.

I would have thought TdT vs Iyogun was a bit of a mismatch, but maybe young Manny's put on some bulk.

I do find the comments above enlightening. Firstly, we have those who prefer to avoid any comment on the Saints result by worrying about Edinburgh etc., and then we have those who think that the subs wot did it. Why make excuses. These are experienced (not to mention very highly paid) professional rugby players, have an extensive week of training by all sorts for this match, waited on hand and foot - and yet allowed Saints back in at the death so to speak.

I hope the players enjoyed trudging back through the Saints ground and entrance to their Coach. that's if they cared.

In the old days, not that long ago, the Coach would have had them in early on a Monday being told off and given suitable physical exercise, or is that just too nasty and old fashioned? I would have been embarrassed to support a schoolboy team that allowed that to happen. p.s. Can you just imagine what would be said if England had allowed Scotland back in? Pah!

Think we need to take into context that this was the first hit out for many of the 1st XXIII players especially Thomas Du Toit - I did find it interesting that we went from total dominance in the set piece and then the official (Woodthorpe) penalising us - either clever management by Saints of the official or balancing out who knows, I know our front row were really confused with his officiating and lack of consistency - Think on the whole JVG will be happy his main players in the pack got a hit out and will only get better - the backline bar Ben Spencer, Matt Gallgher and Joe C will be diffierent come Premiership along the lines of Spencer, Russell, Joe C, Cam Redpath, Ollie Lawrence, Will Muir and Matt Gallagher - so really I suppose it was Bath first choice pack bar perhaps Alfie or Jaco v Saints first choice back line bar Mitchell - Plus as a Saint's supporter said to me his team had already had one match together so were a good 80 minutes further down the road, he was genuinely impressed by us and stated he fears playing a full Bath side come the Premiership - believes we will shock a few teams - let us hope he is right.

Like I said I would not read in too much to the result - what was pleasing was we put 6 tries past a firtst choice backline - less pleasing was Saints put 7 tries against us - Plenty to work on.

Bath sUbstitutions slowed and interrupted The momentum. A tip tackle on de Glanville prior to Saints try wasn't looked at. I thought it was a penalty🤷‍♂️

Quote:

Iane2103
Bath sUbstitutions slowed and interrupted The momentum. A tip tackle on de Glanville prior to Saints try wasn't looked at. I thought it was a penalty🤷‍♂️

There were no TMO facilities!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:01:19:53:17 by CoochieCoo.

[quote Pop stand fan]In my view to field a deliberately uncompetitive side on the Rec next weekend would demonstrate a complete lack of respect for the competition, for the opposition and for home fans.[/quote
Can't see it's disrespectful. Clubs are pretty much using the competition for a mix of squad development and getting the first team squad match fit. Ticket prices reflect the nature of the competition. It's filling a void created by the WC. Without an A-League I hope something similar is scheduled next season, but they do need to establish clear criteria re selection and try and have a dialogue to avoid boring and valueless mis - matches.

Quote:

TomReagan

Quote:

Pop stand fan
In my view to field a deliberately uncompetitive side on the Rec next weekend would demonstrate a complete lack of respect for the competition, for the opposition and for home fans.

Can't see it's disrespectful. Clubs are pretty much using the competition for a mix of squad development and getting the first team squad match fit. Ticket prices reflect the nature of the competition. It's filling a void created by the WC. Without an A-League I hope something similar is scheduled next season, but they do need to establish clear criteria re selection and try and have a dialogue to avoid boring and valueless mis - matches.

Agreed. IMO It's as just as disrespectful to suggest that the squad players aren't worthy of a 'little cup' appearance. How are they supposed to improve / get game time / push for the first 23 if they aren't played in games like these?

[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]

Quote:

TomReagan

Quote:

Pop stand fan
In my view to field a deliberately uncompetitive side on the Rec next weekend would demonstrate a complete lack of respect for the competition, for the opposition and for home fans.

Can't see it's disrespectful. Clubs are pretty much using the competition for a mix of squad development and getting the first team squad match fit. Ticket prices reflect the nature of the competition. It's filling a void created by the WC. Without an A-League I hope something similar is scheduled next season, but they do need to establish clear criteria re selection and try and have a dialogue to avoid boring and valueless mis - matches.

I agree, I don't see it as disrespectful either, it's just replacing the usual pre season friendlies and most teams are using the "competition" to get ready for season. It's also allowed owners to include these games in the ST and thereby not reduce prices due to the lack of PL games.

Quote:

OutsideBath

Quote:

TomReagan

Quote:

Pop stand fan
In my view to field a deliberately uncompetitive side on the Rec next weekend would demonstrate a complete lack of respect for the competition, for the opposition and for home fans.

Can't see it's disrespectful. Clubs are pretty much using the competition for a mix of squad development and getting the first team squad match fit. Ticket prices reflect the nature of the competition. It's filling a void created by the WC. Without an A-League I hope something similar is scheduled next season, but they do need to establish clear criteria re selection and try and have a dialogue to avoid boring and valueless mis - matches.

I agree, I don't see it as disrespectful either, it's just replacing the usual pre season friendlies and most teams are using the "competition" to get ready for season. It's also allowed owners to include these games in the ST and thereby not reduce prices due to the lack of PL games.

You realise that the cup games are normally part of the season ticket? And that the Club will have to find another fixture or provide a refund for the missing Irish games, as that was part of what people signed up and paid for this time.

I don't think naming a certain term is disrespectful, the point I made about was if you have two matches within 24 hours if would be a shame in my view if the 'stars' played in the away match rather than the home one.

It depends on the strength of the sides put out by Edinburgh and Exeter. As to the ST, it's sort of understood that the cup fixtures are for development sides. I think we've won 1 game in about 4 seasons before this year, and because of the WC and scheduling we're actually putting out stronger sides than in seasons past.

SomersetLive are reporting “ Bath play twice in 20 hours this weekend, with a young side expected to travel to Edinburgh in a pre-season friendly and a more experienced outfit running out at the Recreation Ground against Exeter Chiefs in the Premiership Rugby Cup a day later. ” [www.somersetlive.co.uk]
Should be good experience for the youngsters to go away to Edinburgh and pleasing to see the experience players at home for the fans.

I think that's the right way around. Edinburgh will be missing all their Scottish internationals, I can't see what we'd gain playing a first XV against them.

Curious why we arranged the Edinburgh fixture. Only makes sense if we always planned to put out a strong team v Exe and wanted to give our other squad players a fixture, but you'd think we could have found somewhere a bit closer to home, or am I missing something?

I think the Edinburgh game was arranged before the Cup fixtures had been published. I seem to recall speculation as to whether the Edinburgh friendly would be cancelled as a result.

Thanks; might explain it! If that's the case the club would seem to have been a bit hasty in setting up the fixture.