TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
van Graan: own beat
By PG Tips
June 4 2024
Bath must march to a different drum when they face Northampton Saints in Saturday’s Premiership Final. With the match a sellout, thousands of Northampton fans in green, gold and black are expected to descend on Twickenham. The strains of “When the Saints” are bound to ring out loudly. Bath must blot out that insistent beat, chose their own rhythm and play their own game to have a chance of beating the favourites.
Northampton are rightly favourites. In the closest fought campaign for years they top the regular season table by virtue of most wins while Bath, with one victory fewer than 3rd placed Sale, owe their second place to an impressive bonus points tally, their nearest challengers in that metric being 6th placed Harlequins.
Most neutrals would credit Saints with the best all-court game this season. The solidity of their set piece, creation of quick ball and fluent attack have all impressed. Their high tempo, attractive style has helped them rack up 76 tries to set the pundits purring and project 8 of their number to 6 nations starts. Leading lights their fans will hope can bring the Gallagher Premiership trophy “marching home” could be summarised as “outgoing and incoming”. Departing veterans Waller, Lawes and Ludlam will be looking for one last hurrah in club colours, while England new boys Finn Smith (whose mix of game management and flair make him the likely man to emulate Farrell as England 10 for a decade) and Tommy Freeman carry their hopes of rapier-like attack.
Of course, in the Premiership’s most complete team there are others to be wary of. Davison’s scrummaging drew 6 penalties against Saracens. Hooker Langdon, lock Coles and blindside Pearson will aim to force their way into England’s summer tour party. Scrum half Mitchell mixes his game to keep opponents guessing. In the backs any centre pairing from Dingwall, Hutchinson and Odendaal offers a blend of pace, power, distribution and defensive organisation, while whoever of Sleightholme, Ramm or Hendy completes the back three will be a fierce threat on the counter- attack. Bath’s much improved defence should get it’s sternest domestic test yet.
Johann van Graan will know all this. He and his coaching team will have studied and analysed, noted strengths, searched out weakness. For them though, it will be Bath’s own game, their own beat, that matters. “Trust our processes”, a season-long van Graan mantra has got Bath here, it will surely be the approach for the big day. First, the basics: set piece, defence & territory. The kicking game will be vital to pen Saints’ dangerous attack in their own half and for Bath to defend on their own terms, within range of the posts or a quick strike from turnover ball. Last Saturday Bath edged Sale at the scrum, both front rows winning vital penalties, and enjoyed 100% lineout success. As well as the set piece Bath edged the breakdown with a 99% ruck success so took the lion’s share of possession at 54%.
There were concerns though. Sale won the territorial kicking battle so that will be a key work-on this week, as will handling, all 3 of Sales’ tries resulting ultimately from ball dropped by Bath.
Continuity will be important too and I would expect few, if any changes to the lineups of the last two games. If any of the front runners have knocks, or the coaches have a cunning tactical tweak in mind, there are many waiting in the wings who deserve a place in the 23. Griffin, Du Plessis, Coetzee, Ojomoh or De Glanville to name just a few. An end of season salute to them, and other starters this season: all are testament to the strength in depth and squad spirit built by van Graan.
On Saturday though, it will be the likes of Dunn, Du Toit, Ewels and Underhill, Spencer, Russell, Lawrence and Muir the blue, black and white faithful hope will snatch the spoils from the expectant Saints. The game plan is likely to be the familiar one, hopefully garnished with a new Lee Blackett strike move such as that for Muir’s try in the last meeting between these two clubs.
This has been described as “the final that everyone wanted”, but who will be the victors? The green, gold and black may have the catchy tune, but as Thoreau wrote: “Perhaps because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears”. Johann van Graan will ensure Bath do just that. Supporters in good voice will play their part too. If the team get their rhythms right, they have the beat and the tune to win.
So: will it be “When the Saints” or “Come on you Bath!” that rings loudest at the end?
Possible Teams:
Bath Rugby: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary. 9 Ben Spencer (c), 10 Finn Russell; 11 Will Muir, 12 Cameron Redpath, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga. 15 Matt Gallagher.
Replacements:16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Miles Reid.
Northampton Saints:
A Waller, Langdon, Davison, Moon, Coles, Lawes, Pearson, Augustus. Mitchell, F Smith. Sleightholme, Dingwall, Odendaal, Freeman. Furbank.
Replacements: S Matavesi, Iyogun, Millar-Mills, Mayanavanua, Ludlam. James, Hutchinson, Ramm.
TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 10:05
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:27:21:09:53 by CoochieCoo.
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Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 10:32
Great way to end the season pre-match reports PG. Agree that it will be the most difficult of mountains to climb to get the win, but we (and more importantly the players) would expect nothing different from a Final. Whatever the result it will be a great day out at a sold out and sunny HQ.
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
COYB!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 10:47
Im not going to be in UK - I cant remember what the deal is with TNT/Discovery - even with a VPN I dont think it works? Anyone tried recently?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 10:59
Woody, not all VPNs are the same, they need to be fast enough to work with discovery plus.
Article here, that indicates which VPN works.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Article here, that indicates which VPN works.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 11:27
Reading that I am already getting excited!!!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 11:31
Quote:Woodpecker
Im not going to be in UK - I cant remember what the deal is with TNT/Discovery - even with a VPN I dont think it works? Anyone tried recently?
If you can't get that then its on ITV1 Woody, programme starts at 14:25.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 11:40
Wow, great write up. Love the theme
Thank you
Thank you
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 11:44
We go into this game in the Sarries role - the stadium will surely be skewed heavily towards Saints
But that upsetter role is a great place to be - it definitely makes me less nervous and I'm ready to enjoy the day however it turns out
I'm sure the coaches have looked at areas of our game which during the regular season have been gambles, the high balls, the crash balls etc, and calculating their value in this game. My hunch is Saints are better placed than any other Prem side to punish us when those go wrong
Discipline needs to be re-iterated. Any cards will swing the game so we have to be squeaky clean - we've actually been pretty good this year (and so have Saints)
But that upsetter role is a great place to be - it definitely makes me less nervous and I'm ready to enjoy the day however it turns out
I'm sure the coaches have looked at areas of our game which during the regular season have been gambles, the high balls, the crash balls etc, and calculating their value in this game. My hunch is Saints are better placed than any other Prem side to punish us when those go wrong
Discipline needs to be re-iterated. Any cards will swing the game so we have to be squeaky clean - we've actually been pretty good this year (and so have Saints)
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 12:08
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Woodpecker
Im not going to be in UK - I cant remember what the deal is with TNT/Discovery - even with a VPN I dont think it works? Anyone tried recently?
If you can't get that then its on ITV1 Woody, programme starts at 14:25.
Aaah Ok ill try that!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: jamietee (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 12:28
The great news is Finn never looses at Twickenham
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 13:36
Quote:Woodpecker
Im not going to be in UK - I cant remember what the deal is with TNT/Discovery - even with a VPN I dont think it works? Anyone tried recently?
Woody I watched the Bath Northampton game in France without a VPN on my Apple phone, on TNT Via Amazon Prime.
I think the IPhone’s now have a Private Relay which hides your USP so a tf like a VPN (however I am rubbish with technical stuff ! )
Widcombe Garçon
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 14:10
Am finding it so hard to find a way by which we win this game. If we allow Spencer to box-kick all day, it's impossible to think that one or two won't land just right for Saints counter-attacks. If we open the game up, then it just feels like they are a bit more adept at that kind of game. Maybe the only way is for us to play through 10 an awful lot more than we have been doing, and let Finn work out when is the right time to go - it's not like he'd wilt under the pressure!!
I'm dying for Ollie Lawrence to have a real signature game, and feel like he and Redpath could do some proper damage if we play more of a Scotland style gameplan, too.
No doubt we'll be going 6/2 split - maybe this is the one time i can get on board with this, given that, if we win, every member of the pack will have worked themselves into the ground.
Whatever happens - chapeau to every single one of the wider Bath Rugby team this year ... players, coaches, physios, social media, owner - the whole lot. It's been a joy of a season.
I'm dying for Ollie Lawrence to have a real signature game, and feel like he and Redpath could do some proper damage if we play more of a Scotland style gameplan, too.
No doubt we'll be going 6/2 split - maybe this is the one time i can get on board with this, given that, if we win, every member of the pack will have worked themselves into the ground.
Whatever happens - chapeau to every single one of the wider Bath Rugby team this year ... players, coaches, physios, social media, owner - the whole lot. It's been a joy of a season.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 14:59
Well we came very close to winning at Franklins Gardens earlier in the season
Obviously we will be underdogs and I agree if you try to analysis it then it is difficult to see where we have an element of superiority but it could simply come down to some outrageous luck or magic
However, win or lose I know I'm going to come away happy
Obviously we will be underdogs and I agree if you try to analysis it then it is difficult to see where we have an element of superiority but it could simply come down to some outrageous luck or magic
However, win or lose I know I'm going to come away happy
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 15:08
Well, we're hard to beat, our defence is solid, we can score in multiple ways, we can kick goals, we've got a very balanced team and a powerful bench. Our attack might not be as sharp, but we're a really good all around team, and if we play for 80 it's very, very difficult to beat us.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 15:27
Agree hasta
I think a sometimes underrated member of our squad is the one JvG referenced post match on Saturday-belief.
Even coming back from large deficits v Tigers & Quins, we looked like a team who believed they could steal it.
That is an attitude that can turn a final.
PG
I think a sometimes underrated member of our squad is the one JvG referenced post match on Saturday-belief.
Even coming back from large deficits v Tigers & Quins, we looked like a team who believed they could steal it.
That is an attitude that can turn a final.
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 15:44
Quote:hasta
Well, we're hard to beat, our defence is solid, we can score in multiple ways, we can kick goals, we've got a very balanced team and a powerful bench. Our attack might not be as sharp, but we're a really good all around team, and if we play for 80 it's very, very difficult to beat us.
All depends on your perspective. Hard to beat? We lost the same number of games as Bristol down in 5th and lost one more league game than Sale and Saints. Yes we are a lot harder to beat but we ain't top on that metric
And yes we have all those qualities but I agree with PG the difference may well be in the attitude but even that is going to be very close
I'm no optimist and continually have to remind myself of the old Flowerpots mantra of "keep the faith"!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 15:49
Quote:gaz59Quote:hasta
Well, we're hard to beat, our defence is solid, we can score in multiple ways, we can kick goals, we've got a very balanced team and a powerful bench. Our attack might not be as sharp, but we're a really good all around team, and if we play for 80 it's very, very difficult to beat us.
All depends on your perspective. Hard to beat? We lost the same number of games as Bristol down in 5th and lost one more league game than Sale and Saints. Yes we are a lot harder to beat but we ain't top on that metric
And yes we have all those qualities but I agree with PG the difference may well be in the attitude but even that is going to be very close
I'm no optimist and continually have to remind myself of the old Flowerpots mantra of "keep the faith"!
We only lost two games without a lbp - Tigers away where we sent a second string team and Bris away where that was only because Finn kicked an interception on 80 minutes when we were trying to win from the end of the world. So yeah I'd say we're hard to beat.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 15:51
Interestingly on rugby union weekly they had 8 Bath players in their combined team and 7 Saints. Saints will rightly go in slight favourites after the season they have had but too many factors to try and calculate in reality (such as Final day nerves) so in my head it's toss of a coin at the moment.
In particular we know that all Prem teams have blown hot and cold in matches this season (Bristol 52-Saints 21, for example). It does seem that teams that tried to out attack them had the most luck (Quins, Bristol) but that could quite easily turn into a lottery such as we found out vs Bristol on 27th Jan!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
In particular we know that all Prem teams have blown hot and cold in matches this season (Bristol 52-Saints 21, for example). It does seem that teams that tried to out attack them had the most luck (Quins, Bristol) but that could quite easily turn into a lottery such as we found out vs Bristol on 27th Jan!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: hemington (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 16:11
So which of the Northampton players would you swap into our team?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 16:11
Did the Champions Cup and the semi v Sarries take a lot out of them, is Fins Smiths temperament as good as Finn Russell’s at Twickenham, is Saints form sustainable, where does the luck fall and could it all be decided by a red card? It’s a lottery and a cup final, anything can happen.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:04:17:07:03 by shipwrecked.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:04:17:07:03 by shipwrecked.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: nigewing (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 16:18
Remember both ours & Saints teams against Brizzle were severely weakened by 6N squad session or resting post 6N.
Brizzle got luck of the fixture draw there & only had Genge out from memory!!!!!
Brizzle got luck of the fixture draw there & only had Genge out from memory!!!!!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 16:33
Quote:hemington
So which of the Northampton players would you swap into our team?
I'd certainly take Furbank at 15: Joe C's you-don't-quite-know-what-you're-going-to-get factor means i'd probably take one of Sleightholme or Freeman. Personally, I'd take Mitchell over Spencer - but wouldn't want to get into too much of an argument over that. On form, Langdon is probably edging Dunny, but that's pretty marginal. And I'd take big Courts one way or another, though he might have to slot back into the 2nd row for us.
So yes - that should give us a large dollop of optimism. It's not that I don't think we can beat them - we definitely can. I'm just very unsure about the gameplan that represents our best chance of doing so. As said above, i'd really, really like us to give much, much more responsibility to Finn, rather than watching Spencer turning it into a Wiggie-tribute-act.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 16:39
Quote:Optimist
I'm just very unsure about the gameplan that represents our best chance of doing so.
That's where all the coaches and team analysts earn their crust I guess.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 16:51
Are we that much of underdogs?
I know the bookies have us, but I’d say it a lot closer.
We have been a revelation this season. It’s a final, all bets are off, and we have some Finnsanity.
Finn loves Twickenham. The pitch suits him and his play. Confidence all. It’s 15 vs 15.
Believe!
J
I know the bookies have us, but I’d say it a lot closer.
We have been a revelation this season. It’s a final, all bets are off, and we have some Finnsanity.
Finn loves Twickenham. The pitch suits him and his play. Confidence all. It’s 15 vs 15.
Believe!
J
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 16:52
Quote:gaz59
Well we came very close to winning at Franklins Gardens earlier in the season
Obviously we will be underdogs and I agree if you try to analysis it then it is difficult to see where we have an element of superiority but it could simply come down to some outrageous luck or magic
However, win or lose I know I'm going to come away happy
Saints will rightly be big favourites on Saturday, hopefully the expectation will weigh heavy on them causing them to underperform.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 16:57
I hope so Matt .... if they're coming here for ideas, then I suspect we are going to be very long odds indeed!!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 16:58
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:gaz59
Well we came very close to winning at Franklins Gardens earlier in the season
Obviously we will be underdogs and I agree if you try to analysis it then it is difficult to see where we have an element of superiority but it could simply come down to some outrageous luck or magic
However, win or lose I know I'm going to come away happy
Saints will rightly be big favourites on Saturday, hopefully the expectation will weigh heavy on them causing them to underperform.
I'm hoping for the opposite . Our backs have not been at there best last 2 games so expecting them to fire on the big stage
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 17:00
Quote:ChippenhamRoman
Are we that much of underdogs?
I know the bookies have us, but I’d say it a lot closer.
J
It's only 4 points on Skybet at present which sounds about right to me.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 17:00
How are Saints not clear favourites? They have led the table pretty much all season; had 1st place (or at least a home semi-) wrapped up in advance, while we were dependent on them sending a B team to us along with the highly unexpected Sale/Sarries result to secure a home tie. Judging by how close Saturday was, you'd have to assume that Sale would have nicked it at home.
Again - i'm quite sure we have the brains and the guns to win it. But bookies aren't daft.
Again - i'm quite sure we have the brains and the guns to win it. But bookies aren't daft.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 18:26
Saints don't carry the intimidation factor that Sarries do, which allows us more space to play - both mentally and physically. But we will need to play. Just kicking the ball back to Saints will not be enough. These are 46 very fine rugby players going up against each other but the key difference for me is at 10. Finn has done this before (at all levels) and Fin hasn't (yet). I think we will win but by fewer than 3 points. Most of all, I hope it's a cracker of a game played in the right spirit.
Keep The Faith.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Keep The Faith.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 20:06
Excellent preview PG.
Unlike Joe I'm hoping we score 4 tries in the first 20 and coast home. Not sure my blood pressure can take a close game!
Unlike Joe I'm hoping we score 4 tries in the first 20 and coast home. Not sure my blood pressure can take a close game!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: shendy (IP Logged)
Date: 04/06/2024 20:39
Quote:Rokobilly
Excellent preview PG.
Unlike Joe I'm hoping we score 4 tries in the first 20 and coast home. Not sure my blood pressure can take a close game!
Imagine how I was when we (Saints) beat Sarries in the final 10 years ago - extra time, TMO try right at the end. My nerves were shredded and I was only watching on TV.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 07:48
Even though you won against Sale I think you showed the least of your potential of the four teams who played in the SFs. Tbh for me too many of your big names went missing.
The positive from that is you still won and obviously have extra levels in that team. You've also got, overall, a more experienced 9 and 10 combo which is important.
Quality on both teams but I've a lot more Saints than Bath in a best XV. You've so much class but quite a few come with caveats if "in their best game" whilst many of the Saints have been delivering that all season.
I'd like Saints to win just because they've been the form team all year but I also believe it's about winning the biggest games so would be happy with either on that basis. My feeling is if the v Sale version turn up Saints win with a bit to spare. If you play at your full potential it should be a cracker.
The positive from that is you still won and obviously have extra levels in that team. You've also got, overall, a more experienced 9 and 10 combo which is important.
Quality on both teams but I've a lot more Saints than Bath in a best XV. You've so much class but quite a few come with caveats if "in their best game" whilst many of the Saints have been delivering that all season.
I'd like Saints to win just because they've been the form team all year but I also believe it's about winning the biggest games so would be happy with either on that basis. My feeling is if the v Sale version turn up Saints win with a bit to spare. If you play at your full potential it should be a cracker.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 09:28
OM you are right.
We have not seen a definitive performance from Ollie Lawrence....this year.
Cam Redpath the same.
JC very patchy
Ben Spencer......more to come
Underhill quiet
Alfie working hard but....
If not this Saturday......when
We have not seen a definitive performance from Ollie Lawrence....this year.
Cam Redpath the same.
JC very patchy
Ben Spencer......more to come
Underhill quiet
Alfie working hard but....
If not this Saturday......when
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 09:52
I think that's exactly right- we need a pretty complete team performance and our stars to shine. On balance, however, despite my BB&W spectacles, us at our very best, with big name players making big contributions, could be too hot to handle, even by a top Saints side. It hasn't happened this season (in fact, it rarely does), but the perfect game from our best XXIII could be unstoppable.
Then again, it doesn't have to go perfectly. Finals are funny old pressurised occasions things. S Barnes interesting on the Ruck pod saying that head says Saints but heart says Bath, perhaps because of the expectation on Saints to win it. Almost a sense (not amongst the players) that we're a year ahead of ourselves and just happy to be in a final- which Barnes says can do funny things to the favourites, especially if a player like Finn feels even less pressure than usual and really goes out to enjoy himself.
In truth, no clue what'll happen. Tight at the bookies means it'll likely be close on the scoreboard. Got to feel though that if we're in it with 20 to go, something special could be on given the number of games we've won late this year due to our bench and fitness levels... and the sea of BB&W that'll be in the stands! Whatever happens, nice to be back in residence at our second home.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Then again, it doesn't have to go perfectly. Finals are funny old pressurised occasions things. S Barnes interesting on the Ruck pod saying that head says Saints but heart says Bath, perhaps because of the expectation on Saints to win it. Almost a sense (not amongst the players) that we're a year ahead of ourselves and just happy to be in a final- which Barnes says can do funny things to the favourites, especially if a player like Finn feels even less pressure than usual and really goes out to enjoy himself.
In truth, no clue what'll happen. Tight at the bookies means it'll likely be close on the scoreboard. Got to feel though that if we're in it with 20 to go, something special could be on given the number of games we've won late this year due to our bench and fitness levels... and the sea of BB&W that'll be in the stands! Whatever happens, nice to be back in residence at our second home.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 10:28
Think Saints will go 6:2 on the bench again with Graham (if fit) or ASY coming in and Hutchinson dropping out.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: HK890 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 10:29
Quote:Bath Supporter Jack
OM you are right.
We have not seen a definitive performance from Ollie Lawrence....this year.
Cam Redpath the same.
JC very patchy
Ben Spencer......more to come
Underhill quiet
Alfie working hard but.... so
If not this Saturday......when
I agree we might not have seen another Bristol like performances from Lawrence. But as a team we are levels above where we were then. Some very interesting stats that show while Lawrence is making the breaks as much, he is now making more offloads, more contact metres, more break assists. So I feel now we’re seeing less individual brilliance but a better side that doesn’t require it.
I also personally don’t think that form - how saints have done in the season or them being 1st all season matters. Nothing matters in a cup final. Always look more at pedigree - you would back sarries to be in with a good shot no matter who they face. Both us and Saints are relatively inexperienced with finals/massive games. Spencer and Russell for us and then Lawes is where the game will be decided.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: boozeboozebooze (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 10:36
Saints are rightfully favourites, they're a pretty complete team nowadays so looking for possible weaknesses is quite hard, but if I were to identify some areas to target it would be (assuming broadly the same line ups as the semis):
1. Aerial battle
Looking at the likely back 3's, I'd probably say that Bath have the slight edge when it comes to fielding/competing for kicks:
Cokanasiga v Sleightholme (Joe has a good few inches on his counterpart)
Muir v Freeman (not much in it)
Gallagher v Furbank (Matt is really solid under the high ball, Furbank is more of an attacking threat)
Then I'd also say that Spencer has a more reliable boot than Mitchell, so if Bath can make sure their kicks are contestable we could get a bit of an upper hand.
2. Scrum
It feels like Bath are due a big scrummaging performance, the last 4 games they seem to have mostly been going forward but for whatever reason the refs haven't been rewarding them. Earlier in the season we were consistently dominating opposition packs so hopefully we can rediscover that form for one last time.
I'd say there's little separating Obano v Davison and Dunn v Langdon, the one which I think Bath should target is Waller, who has been a great servant to Saints but in my view isn't a dominant scrummager, so hopefully Du Toit will have had his 4 Weetabix pregame and will be ready to rip in.
Then replacement wise, Stuart could get a nudge on Iyogun, and Schoeman maybe could shade Millar-Mills (a player who confuses me greatly, given he's gone from lower league obscurity to Scottish international in about a year, but probably says more about Scotland's front row options than anything).
In essence, I think the cagier the game is the more it plays into Bath's hand, and given the scorelines in previous Premiership finals there's a good chance it will be a tight affair.
1. Aerial battle
Looking at the likely back 3's, I'd probably say that Bath have the slight edge when it comes to fielding/competing for kicks:
Cokanasiga v Sleightholme (Joe has a good few inches on his counterpart)
Muir v Freeman (not much in it)
Gallagher v Furbank (Matt is really solid under the high ball, Furbank is more of an attacking threat)
Then I'd also say that Spencer has a more reliable boot than Mitchell, so if Bath can make sure their kicks are contestable we could get a bit of an upper hand.
2. Scrum
It feels like Bath are due a big scrummaging performance, the last 4 games they seem to have mostly been going forward but for whatever reason the refs haven't been rewarding them. Earlier in the season we were consistently dominating opposition packs so hopefully we can rediscover that form for one last time.
I'd say there's little separating Obano v Davison and Dunn v Langdon, the one which I think Bath should target is Waller, who has been a great servant to Saints but in my view isn't a dominant scrummager, so hopefully Du Toit will have had his 4 Weetabix pregame and will be ready to rip in.
Then replacement wise, Stuart could get a nudge on Iyogun, and Schoeman maybe could shade Millar-Mills (a player who confuses me greatly, given he's gone from lower league obscurity to Scottish international in about a year, but probably says more about Scotland's front row options than anything).
In essence, I think the cagier the game is the more it plays into Bath's hand, and given the scorelines in previous Premiership finals there's a good chance it will be a tight affair.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 10:55
If fit I'd definitely bring Jaco Coetzee onto the bench. Bayliss has been good recently but getting Barbeary to empty the tank and then bringing on Coetzee for impact just feels more impactful.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 12:02
Quote:HK890
I agree we might not have seen another Bristol like performances from Lawrence. But as a team we are levels above where we were then. Some very interesting stats that show while Lawrence is making the breaks as much, he is now making more offloads, more contact metres, more break assists. So I feel now we’re seeing less individual brilliance but a better side that doesn’t require it
Yes, I read that too. I think i'm definitely guilty of wanting Ollie to make more of those very eye-catching breaks (Sarries away last year, for example) where he was like a kid playing 2 years below his age. I think people often regard Slade a bit like that - if he's not doing ridiculously eye-catching things then he's 'over-hyped and failing to live up to his potential'.
I imagine Ollie has opposition coaches spending a lot of time thinking about how to defend him and Cam, and that alone is an unseen benefit.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 12:22
Quote:boozeboozebooze
Saints are rightfully favourites, they're a pretty complete team nowadays so looking for possible weaknesses is quite hard, but if I were to identify some areas to target it would be (assuming broadly the same line ups as the semis):
1. Aerial battle
Looking at the likely back 3's, I'd probably say that Bath have the slight edge when it comes to fielding/competing for kicks:
Cokanasiga v Sleightholme (Joe has a good few inches on his counterpart)
Muir v Freeman (not much in it)
Gallagher v Furbank (Matt is really solid under the high ball, Furbank is more of an attacking threat)
Then I'd also say that Spencer has a more reliable boot than Mitchell, so if Bath can make sure their kicks are contestable we could get a bit of an upper hand.
2. Scrum
It feels like Bath are due a big scrummaging performance, the last 4 games they seem to have mostly been going forward but for whatever reason the refs haven't been rewarding them. Earlier in the season we were consistently dominating opposition packs so hopefully we can rediscover that form for one last time.
I'd say there's little separating Obano v Davison and Dunn v Langdon, the one which I think Bath should target is Waller, who has been a great servant to Saints but in my view isn't a dominant scrummager, so hopefully Du Toit will have had his 4 Weetabix pregame and will be ready to rip in.
Then replacement wise, Stuart could get a nudge on Iyogun, and Schoeman maybe could shade Millar-Mills (a player who confuses me greatly, given he's gone from lower league obscurity to Scottish international in about a year, but probably says more about Scotland's front row options than anything).
In essence, I think the cagier the game is the more it plays into Bath's hand, and given the scorelines in previous Premiership finals there's a good chance it will be a tight affair.
I kind of agree with you on this one. I was saying the other day the ways bath will win this game is the aerial battle and the scrum. Waller has performed well for us this season but tdt is a monster. Obano vs Davison will be tight. Don't expect schoeman to dominate miller Mills tho. He's been excellent for us. Tommy freeman is brilliant in the air so I'd guess it's the other 2 that will be targeted. Whilst furbank is not the best full back under the high ball he is so important to us and seriously dangerous . I'm glad other fans are starting to see his real value. Sleightholme is rapid and super strong but maybe lacks a top tier kicking game. Will muir worries me. That boy can knock people over for fun as can Joe c. Defensively is Joe c a weakness for you guys against our backs? Thoughts?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 12:39
Quote:Saint dolph
Defensively is Joe c a weakness for you guys against our backs? Thoughts?
Joe C has poor hands IMO, but on occasions when he manages to catch the ball then he can certainly cause damage. The worry, as we saw vs Sale for their Tom O'Flaherty try is that when he drops it the top teams will take advantage of the 'chaos rugby' that results.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 12:49
Completely agree, catching the ball is a lottery sometimes has to be a really soft pass. Compared to Will Muir who can catch a bar of soap off his laces!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 13:02
Lovely read on Fin Russell in today's Telegraph. I accessed it via Charlie Morgan's Twitter, but via the main website it appears to be firewalled. In summary: Finn is a genius. The end.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 13:21
To win a final you need some x factor somewhere in the team. Russell has that, the ability to turn a big game with one moment.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 13:49
Do you know what kit your team is wearing on sat?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 13:53
Quote:Yellow away kit apparentlySaint dolph
Do you know what kit your team is wearing on sat?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 15:57
Quote:Optimist
Lovely read on Fin Russell in today's Telegraph. I accessed it via Charlie Morgan's Twitter, but via the main website it appears to be firewalled. In summary: Finn is a genius. The end.
[archive.today]
Here’s the piece great read
Widcombe Garçon
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 16:29
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Saint dolph
Defensively is Joe c a weakness for you guys against our backs? Thoughts?
Joe C has poor hands IMO, but on occasions when he manages to catch the ball then he can certainly cause damage. The worry, as we saw vs Sale for their Tom O'Flaherty try is that when he drops it the top teams will take advantage of the 'chaos rugby' that results.
I agree that was so nearly a negative 7 pointer but compare that to his T20 style catch v Quins at Twickenham last year
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 16:30
Quote:A.M 180Quote:Yellow away kit apparentlySaint dolph
Do you know what kit your team is wearing on sat?
That's disappointing if true
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 16:35
Quote:Widcombe boyQuote:Optimist
Lovely read on Fin Russell in today's Telegraph. I accessed it via Charlie Morgan's Twitter, but via the main website it appears to be firewalled. In summary: Finn is a genius. The end.
[archive.today]
Here’s the piece great read
Loved it, thank you. And also supports the idea that next year we should be even better as more players get more time to get on Finn's wavelength
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 21:29
Olly Lawrence is on the Rugby Pod this week talking about the Final
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 05/06/2024 21:45
Quote:gaz59Quote:A.M 180Quote:Yellow away kit apparentlySaint dolph
Do you know what kit your team is wearing on sat?
That's disappointing if true
If Bath win in it you'll love it gaz 😉
That Russell article is a great read. As said above the better an understanding he builds with the team and they with him the greater impact.
Unlike Morgan to get facts wrong but it was a SF v Sarries. The final was v Chiefs were he threw a very costly intercepted pass!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:05:21:57:33 by OldMarovian.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: HK890 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 09:02
I believe there is just the one change to the team that faced Sale.
Stooke has swapped out for Jaques du Plessis
Personally I would have liked to see Jaco come in for Bayliss. None the less it’s a quality side that should do the job.
Stooke has swapped out for Jaques du Plessis
Personally I would have liked to see Jaco come in for Bayliss. None the less it’s a quality side that should do the job.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 10:02
Hopefully it’s going to be a cracker against the top 2 this season in the league.
For me personally I am a bit more positive in that we did not peak in the semi final - I would be more worried if we had produced an”worldly” performance against Sharks - whereas we ground out a result in a tough physical encounter with lots for Lee, Richard and Stevie to work on.
Personally I think there maybe some tinkering to the starting XV possibly along the lines of:
Gallagher
Cokanasiga
Lawrence
Redpath
Muir
Russell
Spencer
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Underhill
Barbeary
Annett
Schoeman
Du Toit
Du Plessis or Stooke
Coetzee
Bayliss
Schreuder
Bailey
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:06:11:47:56 by Ali1969.
For me personally I am a bit more positive in that we did not peak in the semi final - I would be more worried if we had produced an”worldly” performance against Sharks - whereas we ground out a result in a tough physical encounter with lots for Lee, Richard and Stevie to work on.
Personally I think there maybe some tinkering to the starting XV possibly along the lines of:
Gallagher
Cokanasiga
Lawrence
Redpath
Muir
Russell
Spencer
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Underhill
Barbeary
Annett
Schoeman
Du Toit
Du Plessis or Stooke
Coetzee
Bayliss
Schreuder
Bailey
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:06:11:47:56 by Ali1969.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 10:03
Quote:gaz59Quote:A.M 180Quote:Yellow away kit apparentlySaint dolph
Do you know what kit your team is wearing on sat?
That's disappointing if true
I'm coming round to thinking that both teams in hoops would be an issue for people with visual issues so I'm guessing it was either a toss up or advantage went to the top team
Personally would have loved seeing us run out in the BBW but then I don't have those issues
Just gives me an existential question. Do I wear my BBW shirt or retro 1865 collection yellow Y shirt?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 10:15
Quote:Ali1969
Hopefully it’s going to be a cracker against the top 2 this season in the league.
For me personally I am a bit more positive in that we did not peak in the semi final - I would be more worried if we had produced an”worldly” performance against Sharks - whereas we ground out a result in a tough physical encounter with lots for Lee, Richard and Stevie to work on.
Personally I think there maybe some tinkering to the starting XV possibly along the lines of:
Gallagher
Cokanasiga
Lawrence
Redpath
Muir
Russell
Spencer
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Underhill
Barbeary
Annett
Schoeman
Du Toit
Du Plessis or Stooke
Coetzee
Bayliss
Schreuder
Bayliss
I too would be tempted by Du Toit off the bench. He could wreak havoc in the final half hour, just as long as it's still close
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:06:10:15:49 by A.M 180.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 11:33
I get iyt that Bayliss is pacey Ali- but not sure his kicking is up to the task at 10 or 15. Also harsh on Landy!😀
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:06:11:34:12 by P G Tips.
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:06:11:34:12 by P G Tips.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 11:35
Quote:HK890
I believe there is just the one change to the team that faced Sale.
Stooke has swapped out for Jaques du Plessis
Personally I would have liked to see Jaco come in for Bayliss. None the less it’s a quality side that should do the job.
So same starting xv and one bench change?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 11:47
Quote:P G Tips
I get iyt that Bayliss is pacey Ali- but not sure his kicking is up to the task at 10 or 15. Also harsh on Landy!😀
PG
Touché PG typo should be Bailey.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 11:52
Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:HK890
I believe there is just the one change to the team that faced Sale.
Stooke has swapped out for Jaques du Plessis
Personally I would have liked to see Jaco come in for Bayliss. None the less it’s a quality side that should do the job.
So same starting xv and one bench change?
I think that would be sensible. Any advantages that may come from rotation are (for me) outweighed by the familiarity of this group from having trained for the last match as well as this one. The final is not the time to tinker, need to major on that telepathy that develops over time - in particular the players beginning to understand where Finn may chuck the ball...
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: miller8 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 11:59
We always appear a bit more solid when Stooke comes on
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 12:51
Stooke's work rate is really impressive if you track him in a match.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 12:56
I don't know for sure, as I haven't seen enough of him, but is du Plessis potentially more of a game changer? I agree that Stooke seems to bring solidity in the later stages, at restarts and set piece especially, but does JDP potentially bring something off the bench that's a little bit different?
I remember v Quins he made a strong break and a classy one handed off load to make a try. He also smashed a couple of people in that game. Does he come on with 30 to go on Saturday, with one score in it, and does something to turn it our way? Same with Coetzee, who I'd think about benching ahead of Reid or Bayliss. Yes, we need solidity- but on Saturday, as (marginal) underdogs, I think we'll need some magic from some game changers, too.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I remember v Quins he made a strong break and a classy one handed off load to make a try. He also smashed a couple of people in that game. Does he come on with 30 to go on Saturday, with one score in it, and does something to turn it our way? Same with Coetzee, who I'd think about benching ahead of Reid or Bayliss. Yes, we need solidity- but on Saturday, as (marginal) underdogs, I think we'll need some magic from some game changers, too.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 13:13
I guess it depends on whether you are going 6/2 split and the overall balance of the bench? Reid and Bayliss are a bit more experienced at all of the back row positions I guess. In truth there is only a fag paper between quite a few of them - nice problem to have.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: HK890 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 16:10
Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:HK890
I believe there is just the one change to the team that faced Sale.
Stooke has swapped out for Jaques du Plessis
Personally I would have liked to see Jaco come in for Bayliss. None the less it’s a quality side that should do the job.
So same starting xv and one bench change?
Yep just the one - Continuity is king.
Agree with comments with game changers.
Personally for me thought Bayliss had a bit of a poor game off the bench compared to previous weeks. Coetzee deserves the chance imo been our best option off the bench this season.
However come gameday you know whoever is in that 23 will do the team proud.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 18:37
Bath Rugby have just said it’s the home Blue, Black and White strip on Social Media.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 19:21
Quote:Great stuff…….only 9 to choose from !tigersimon
Bath Rugby have just said it’s the home Blue, Black and White strip on Social Media.
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 19:27
duplicate
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:06:20:38:58 by joethefanatic.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:06:20:38:58 by joethefanatic.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 20:36
Quote:joethefanaticQuote:HK890Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:HK890
I believe there is just the one change to the team that faced Sale.
Stooke has swapped out for Jaques du Plessis
Personally I would have liked to see Jaco come in for Bayliss. None the less it’s a quality side that should do the job.
So same starting xv and one bench change?
Yep just the one - Continuity is king.
Agree with comments with game changers.
Personally for me thought Bayliss had a bit of a poor game off the bench compared to previous weeks. Coetzee deserves the chance imo been our best option off the bench this season.
However come gameday you know whoever is in that 23 will do the team proud.
Bayliss is not the heavy carrier that Coetzee is. Which kind of suggests that the coaching team think that the last 20 is going to be very loose and open. Right in Finn's sweet spot but I'm not sure my heart will be able to stand it!
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:06:20:38:07 by joethefanatic.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 21:11
Listening to Finn on the Rugby Union weekly podcast
He's chilling me out how relaxed he sounds
He's chilling me out how relaxed he sounds
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 22:25
If Finn’s podcast is the paragon of chilled out then it can be further enhanced by a brief insight into jvG’s style at Farleigh in this piece.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
[www.bbc.co.uk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 06/06/2024 22:54
Quote:tigersimon
Bath Rugby have just said it’s the home Blue, Black and White strip on Social Media.
Woo hoo
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 12:01
Unchanged 23 - Come on Bath
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 12:01
Team Up. Unchanged:
Bath Rugby: 15 Matt Gallagher, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Will Muir, , 10 Finn Russell, , 9 Ben Spencer (c); 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Miles Reid.
PG
Bath Rugby: 15 Matt Gallagher, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 12 Cameron Redpath, 11 Will Muir, , 10 Finn Russell, , 9 Ben Spencer (c); 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Alfie Barbeary
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Elliott Stooke, 20 Josh Bayliss, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Miles Reid.
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 12:04
And Northampton's Squad:
Northampton Saints team news
15 George Furbank
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Burger Odendaal
12 Fraser Dingwall
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell
1 Alex Waller
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison
4 Alex Moon
5 Alex Coles
6 Courtney Lawes (c)
7 Tom Pearson
8 Juarno Augustus
Replacements:
16 Sam Matavesi
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Temo Mayanavanua
20 Sam Graham
21 Lewis Ludlam
22 Tom James
23 George Hendy
PG
Northampton Saints team news
15 George Furbank
14 Tommy Freeman
13 Burger Odendaal
12 Fraser Dingwall
11 Ollie Sleightholme
10 Fin Smith
9 Alex Mitchell
1 Alex Waller
2 Curtis Langdon
3 Trevor Davison
4 Alex Moon
5 Alex Coles
6 Courtney Lawes (c)
7 Tom Pearson
8 Juarno Augustus
Replacements:
16 Sam Matavesi
17 Emmanuel Iyogun
18 Elliot Millar Mills
19 Temo Mayanavanua
20 Sam Graham
21 Lewis Ludlam
22 Tom James
23 George Hendy
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 12:10
Anticipation really kicking in - we have the ingredients to win , we just have to show up as our best
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 12:54
On paper they have switched the centres Odendaal and Dingwall, Odendaal was at inside centre v Sarries now at 13 outside centre?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 13:05
Both teams as expected. Very excited!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 13:15
"How Bath Turned Hope into Belief":- [www.bbc.co.uk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 13:22
Remarkable to be able to name an unchanged 23 so consistently this season, especially with the likes of JDP, Coetzee, Mojo, TDG not making the XXIII. As with every week, well done to S&C and medical.
Great squad but Saints look strong. My head says Saints by a point... my heart says Bath by a score.
Ere we go then! Up the M4 once more! Allez Bath!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Great squad but Saints look strong. My head says Saints by a point... my heart says Bath by a score.
Ere we go then! Up the M4 once more! Allez Bath!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 13:34
Telegraph writers all picking Saints - I can't access the full article - but hopefully some extra motivation for the team. Pressure very much on Northampton.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 13:42
Two excellent teams and both pretty much full bore which is great.
Saints to win for me but Bath could put in an incredible performance and win and it would be no shock.
Good luck.
Saints to win for me but Bath could put in an incredible performance and win and it would be no shock.
Good luck.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: theredseat (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 14:30
Quote:Rokobilly
Telegraph writers all picking Saints - I can't access the full article - but hopefully some extra motivation for the team. Pressure very much on Northampton.
If they need motivation from a handful of predictions saying they think the bookies favourite will probably win we might be in trouble tbh
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 14:58
A very good episode of The G, B & R talking mainly about the finals (No Haskell!)
Starts with 5 minutes of train chat but then moves onto Saints, Bath specific from 41:00 onwards, enjoy
[youtu.be]
Starts with 5 minutes of train chat but then moves onto Saints, Bath specific from 41:00 onwards, enjoy
[youtu.be]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BeatsWorking (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 17:20
Hi all - have been following / lurking on this message board for a while, and before tomorrow's game just wanted to say a huge thanks for the entertaining, civilised and interesting comments from everyone
It's been incredibly refreshing to hear reasonable points of view
Managed to get my tickets a while ago, hoping for but not expecting Bath to make it. Whatever happens, it's been a great season, so just going to try to enjoy the day!
It's been incredibly refreshing to hear reasonable points of view
Managed to get my tickets a while ago, hoping for but not expecting Bath to make it. Whatever happens, it's been a great season, so just going to try to enjoy the day!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BucksBBandW (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 17:28
Quote:+1 to everything the good doctor says! Two very exciting and top quality 23s, what a match it should be!dr.bath1865
Remarkable to be able to name an unchanged 23 so consistently this season, especially with the likes of JDP, Coetzee, Mojo, TDG not making the XXIII. As with every week, well done to S&C and medical.
Great squad but Saints look strong. My head says Saints by a point... my heart says Bath by a score.
Ere we go then! Up the M4 once more! Allez Bath!
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL
Posted by: JohnI (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 18:14
Quote:jamietee
The great news is Finn never looses at Twickenham
And hopefully he wont tomorrow either, Finn Smith that is
![[:wor kid:]](/phorum-5.1.15/mods/smileys/images/13.gif "[:wor kid:]")
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: WasBBWBaaBaa (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 18:20
Win (Hopefully), lose, or draw, my wish is for only positive comments on 'ere after the match!
Whatever happens, this has been the most enjoyable season for several years.
Onwards and upwards! Allez Bath!
Whatever happens, this has been the most enjoyable season for several years.
Onwards and upwards! Allez Bath!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 19:12
Quote:WasBBWBaaBaa
Win (Hopefully), lose, or draw, my wish is for only positive comments on 'ere after the match!
Whatever happens, this has been the most enjoyable season for several years.
Onwards and upwards! Allez Bath!
Whilst it’s difficult to build a credible argument for Bath winning, how can there be anything but positive comments for this season and what JvG has done for Bath?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 20:49
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:WasBBWBaaBaa
Win (Hopefully), lose, or draw, my wish is for only positive comments on 'ere after the match!
Whatever happens, this has been the most enjoyable season for several years.
Onwards and upwards! Allez Bath!
Whilst it’s difficult to build a credible argument for Bath winning, how can there be anything but positive comments for this season and what JvG has done for Bath?
Exactly those comments
I'm so excited about going up tomorrow but if it's not to be then hey ho what a great season and so much to be optimistic for next year ... but if we do win well I'm hoping the cranial sat nav gets me home
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BucksBBandW (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2024 21:51
If we're going to lose a final, then I won't feel aggrieved losing to this Saints team, performing as they have all season (apart from when they put out their second team against us a couple of weeks ago) - I like their attitude and approach. It's been a hell of a season, a creditable second in the league, won a lot of people over to us and JvG has built a really quality team with a clear, cohesive identity. That said, just imagine it if we do win! I think that, whoever does win, it will only be by one score. COYB!
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: hanuman (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 00:25
I have cast the runes and sat with the lady as she looked into the pot and saw the vision of result
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: hanuman (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 00:33
I sat with the ancient lady as she cast the runes and looked deep into the magical pond at the future and spoke of what she saw. This was the vision. Two minutes to go with the scores level and Finn drops a goal from the half way. Got our tickets and we are in the best seats to see this fantastic result. We can dream and hope. Should be a great day out
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 03:58
Quote:hanuman
I sat with the ancient lady as she cast the runes and looked deep into the magical pond at the future and spoke of what she saw. This was the vision. Two minutes to go with the scores level and Finn drops a goal from the half way. Got our tickets and we are in the best seats to see this fantastic result. We can dream and hope. Should be a great day out
Was she *certain* about the spelling of "Finn"?
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Gaughers (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 08:29
Couldn't sleep a wink last night! Good luck and have fun to all those who've made the trip. As Stookie said on Bath socials, "clear minds, full hearts, can't lose!"
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Susanne (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 08:32
Quote:BeatsWorking
Hi all - have been following / lurking on this message board for a while, and before tomorrow's game just wanted to say a huge thanks for the entertaining, civilised and interesting comments from everyone
It's been incredibly refreshing to hear reasonable points of view
Managed to get my tickets a while ago, hoping for but not expecting Bath to make it. Whatever happens, it's been a great season, so just going to try to enjoy the day!
Welcome! Don't be a stranger in future
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: hemington (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 08:43
It is great to know we got to the final so all those narrow losses, missed kicks, not putting out our best team, penalties given away, missed tackles etc that some on here have said would cost us at the end of the season....haven't. We are here at the final - all square (apart from being in the away changing rooms). One off game - may the best team win (hopefully Bath), may there be no cards on either side and may it be the most entertaining final ever played.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 09:25
Quote:Gaughers
Couldn't sleep a wink last night! Good luck and have fun to all those who've made the trip. As Stookie said on Bath socials, "clear minds, full hearts, can't lose!"
As that's from FRIDAY Night Lights hopefully Bath didn't travel on the wrong day! 😉
Good luck C.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 09:31
Have a fantastic day everyone, whatever the result.
Either side would be worthy winners, just hope it is us, and that the game isn't decided by a clumsy challenge...
Either side would be worthy winners, just hope it is us, and that the game isn't decided by a clumsy challenge...
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Gaughers (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 09:36
Quote:OldMarovianQuote:Gaughers
Couldn't sleep a wink last night! Good luck and have fun to all those who've made the trip. As Stookie said on Bath socials, "clear minds, full hearts, can't lose!"
As that's from FRIDAY Night Lights hopefully Bath didn't travel on the wrong day! 😉
Good luck C.
Cheers R.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 11:27
Right off I go - ready to enjoy whatever happens. Here's to a great game
Come on Bath!
Come on Bath!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 14:51
Good luck, everybody
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 15:34
Completely taken the wind out of my sales.
J
J
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: hantssabre (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 15:48
Anybody would have thought there’s an important match going on somewhere judging by the lack of activity in here!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 15:51
It was a red so no complaints. You'd imagine Ridley will be looking to even things up. We weren't playing well even before the red and were not getting the bounce either. I doubt we'll do anything but slow the game and kick everything up in the air now. Against Saints it might be our best bet even with 15.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: 9215 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 15:53
Quote:joethefanatic
It was a red so no complaints. You'd imagine Ridley will be looking to even things up. We weren't playing well even before the red and were not getting the bounce either. I doubt we'll do anything but slow the game and kick everything up in the air now. Against Saints it might be our best bet even with 15.
I think we were playing pretty well and, crucially, our scrum was on top.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 15:55
Brilliant first 20.
Red was absolutely right, and I'm glad he didn't bottle it. But, it's let the air out.
Saints 1st try a brilliant training ground move, though Flats at least seemed to forget that Obano was replaced by Schoeman, who, as a fellow LHP does the LHP stuff. It's Alfie's job that isn't being done.
2nd try was a glorious bounce of the ball, which so far has favoured Saints (Gallagher would have loved such a friendly bounce, twice).
Bath will be pleased to claw one back, and tjen keep Saints out at the last. But will need to score first after the break if we're to make a game of this.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Red was absolutely right, and I'm glad he didn't bottle it. But, it's let the air out.
Saints 1st try a brilliant training ground move, though Flats at least seemed to forget that Obano was replaced by Schoeman, who, as a fellow LHP does the LHP stuff. It's Alfie's job that isn't being done.
2nd try was a glorious bounce of the ball, which so far has favoured Saints (Gallagher would have loved such a friendly bounce, twice).
Bath will be pleased to claw one back, and tjen keep Saints out at the last. But will need to score first after the break if we're to make a game of this.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Susanne (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 16:01
Listening to ref link sounds like Peace is coaching Ridley. With him and the TMO in his ear he's doing well to concentrate
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 16:58
Never been so proud to be BBW. 60 minutes with 14 and it's a one score game. Immense. Roll on next year.
My MotM - Sam Underhill.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Sam Underhill.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: hantssabre (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 17:00
Well played Bath. 2025 Champions in waiting
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 17:02
Well played, Bath! Brilliant game.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: bathwickboy (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 17:06
Hendy motm, you have to be kidding!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 17:06
So proud of the boys.
We'll learn from this, and come back stronger next year.
Whatever doesn't kill you, evolves and tries again, and that's what we need to do.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
We'll learn from this, and come back stronger next year.
Whatever doesn't kill you, evolves and tries again, and that's what we need to do.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 17:16
Incredible performance. Gutted but proud.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Saint.Kenneth (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 17:21
When you think where you were only a few years back. Your side were magnificent today and have been all season. Commiserations but you’re going to be there or thereabouts for a number of years with that side.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 17:35
Thanks St K.
Disappointed of course, but not downhearted adter that showing.
PG
Disappointed of course, but not downhearted adter that showing.
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Susanne (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 17:36
Quote:hasta
Incredible performance. Gutted but proud.
+1
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 17:46
Fair play bath. Better team on the day but we were the best through the season.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 17:54
Commiserations Bath, very brave performance.
Bounce of the ball, Russell missing 5 points could have made the difference.
TDT my MoM, Underhill earned his place on the tour down under on that performance today, Spencer outplayed Mitchell.
Feel for Barbeary.
I am worried as you will get better!
Bounce of the ball, Russell missing 5 points could have made the difference.
TDT my MoM, Underhill earned his place on the tour down under on that performance today, Spencer outplayed Mitchell.
Feel for Barbeary.
I am worried as you will get better!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: East_Stand_Warrior (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 18:19
Commiserations Bath fans, from an interested Glaswegian. You probably had most Glaswegians and Scots supporting you today with the obvious links. Didn't catch all your game as it clashed with Bulls v Treviso, but it looked like you did really well to be in it at the end given the red card (which looked fair enough from my point of view).
After years of almost looking down on the entertainment value of the Premiership, it's great to see yourselves and Quins playing some really good rugby. Coincidentally, having seen Glasgow at 7/10 English grounds, those are my two favourite away trips, too - so hope to see you next year in the Champions Cup!
Right now, I'm off to watch our campaign probably fizzle out at the QF stage...
After years of almost looking down on the entertainment value of the Premiership, it's great to see yourselves and Quins playing some really good rugby. Coincidentally, having seen Glasgow at 7/10 English grounds, those are my two favourite away trips, too - so hope to see you next year in the Champions Cup!
Right now, I'm off to watch our campaign probably fizzle out at the QF stage...
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 18:26
So proud. Overall the best team in all but points. Congrats to Saints on three well worked tries for the win.
My watch was telling me that the environment was too pound and my resting heart rate was too high multiple times, none of which I had much control over.
Next year should be a corker.
My watch was telling me that the environment was too pound and my resting heart rate was too high multiple times, none of which I had much control over.
Next year should be a corker.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 18:35
Could not be any prouder of our team. Personally think Saints deserved it for their performances over the season but oh my god well played boys.
The future is very bright. Saints losing Lawes , Waller and Ludlam will leave an enormous hole in their defence if the title - Finn Russell and Ben Spencer certainly showed who is the master today.
Underhill and Du Toit from another planet.
Well played boys let’s recharge and make amends next season.
The future is very bright. Saints losing Lawes , Waller and Ludlam will leave an enormous hole in their defence if the title - Finn Russell and Ben Spencer certainly showed who is the master today.
Underhill and Du Toit from another planet.
Well played boys let’s recharge and make amends next season.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BeatsWorking (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 18:46
Coming away from the game, with an overwhelming sense of pride, tinged with a bit of disappointment. But what fight! What heart! What did Sam Underhill have for breakfast!?
Looking forward already to next season.... this has the makings of a great team. It has real guts.
Looking forward already to next season.... this has the makings of a great team. It has real guts.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 18:50
Quote:Ali1969
Could not be any prouder of our team. Personally think Saints deserved it for their performances over the season but oh my god well played boys.
The future is very bright. Saints losing Lawes , Waller and Ludlam will leave an enormous hole in their defence if the title - Finn Russell and Ben Spencer certainly showed who is the master today.
Underhill and Du Toit from another planet.
Well played boys let’s recharge and make amends next season.
Lawes is the only player we will miss. Ludlam is no where near first choice and our 2 young loose heads will only get better. See you again in final next year .
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 18:58
Quote:Saint Dolph
Lawes is the only player we will miss. Ludlam is no where near first choice and our 2 young loose heads will only get better. See you again in final next year
And Moon.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 19:06
Deleted - Duplicate
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:08:19:25:08 by The Bear.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:08:19:25:08 by The Bear.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 19:14
Quote:tigersimonQuote:Saint Dolph
Lawes is the only player we will miss. Ludlam is no where near first choice and our 2 young loose heads will only get better. See you again in final next year
And Moon.
Very true. Rumour has it a big name lock is coming tho .
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 19:15
Crazy but exciting game.
Saints were terrible and very much there for the taking despite being a man up so long. To me they looked to have played their "Final" game last week.
Some fairly major questions about Saints coaching and lack of leadership based on that performance.
Bath played brilliantly but watching Saints playing into their hands was bewildering. Lots of it was unforced poor decision-making; man-up with a scrum that's struggling do you try and get the ball away quickly to expose the space or do you try and try and get penalties out of a better scrummaging team ... ? Answers on a postcard.
Thought Ridley had a great game. Odd call aside the big ones were right. Feel for Obano and hope he's got plenty of arms round the shoulder over the next couple of days. Also Barbeary whose Final disappeared due to that incident. Feel subbing him was the right call but still harsh.
It says a lot that I think you probably get through 4 or 5 Bath players as actual MotM before you'd get to a Saints one. I'd have picked Spencer, it was his kicking that unlocked Saints defence and his harassing Mitchell set the tone for one of his (Mitchells) worst games in a while. That said Underhill and du Toit were both immense.
Interested if Underhill was off for an HIA or blood-sub?
Given the England kicking game it feels odd Muir hasn't been in the conversation more although obviously Freeman and IFW great options.
Overall things look very bright for Bath. I think you could easily have snuck that. Several chances where a favourable bounce might have swung the game.
Hard to think of obvious weaknesses in the team and given it will be pretty much the same team next season it feels like we could be entering a BBW-age!
Also very obvious that the combinations are only going to improve with more game time together.
Saints were terrible and very much there for the taking despite being a man up so long. To me they looked to have played their "Final" game last week.
Some fairly major questions about Saints coaching and lack of leadership based on that performance.
Bath played brilliantly but watching Saints playing into their hands was bewildering. Lots of it was unforced poor decision-making; man-up with a scrum that's struggling do you try and get the ball away quickly to expose the space or do you try and try and get penalties out of a better scrummaging team ... ? Answers on a postcard.
Thought Ridley had a great game. Odd call aside the big ones were right. Feel for Obano and hope he's got plenty of arms round the shoulder over the next couple of days. Also Barbeary whose Final disappeared due to that incident. Feel subbing him was the right call but still harsh.
It says a lot that I think you probably get through 4 or 5 Bath players as actual MotM before you'd get to a Saints one. I'd have picked Spencer, it was his kicking that unlocked Saints defence and his harassing Mitchell set the tone for one of his (Mitchells) worst games in a while. That said Underhill and du Toit were both immense.
Interested if Underhill was off for an HIA or blood-sub?
Given the England kicking game it feels odd Muir hasn't been in the conversation more although obviously Freeman and IFW great options.
Overall things look very bright for Bath. I think you could easily have snuck that. Several chances where a favourable bounce might have swung the game.
Hard to think of obvious weaknesses in the team and given it will be pretty much the same team next season it feels like we could be entering a BBW-age!
Also very obvious that the combinations are only going to improve with more game time together.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 19:23
Shame but what an effort!
A few observations:
1. The genuinely international class players really stood out. TdT, Underhill, Lawes and Russell showing all their big game ability.
2. Spencer and Russell definitely outperformed their opposite numbers.
3. The red card was right but it's really tough on Barbeary (and any other in that situation) that he essentially received the red card. He did no wrong and yet his (and Obano's) games were finished. Had it been 4-15 only 1 person's game is ended (and rightly so).
A few observations:
1. The genuinely international class players really stood out. TdT, Underhill, Lawes and Russell showing all their big game ability.
2. Spencer and Russell definitely outperformed their opposite numbers.
3. The red card was right but it's really tough on Barbeary (and any other in that situation) that he essentially received the red card. He did no wrong and yet his (and Obano's) games were finished. Had it been 4-15 only 1 person's game is ended (and rightly so).
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: tigerburnie (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 19:28
Well done on making the final, commiserations on the result.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 19:33
A very creditable performance. I don’t watch Bath much but haven’t seen an Underhill performance like that for a good while. Spencer was all over Mitchell.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 20:40
Says a lot that we've a few outsiders coming here to offer praise. Thanks to those that have.
Very proud of the guys. Was fearing the worst after the red and subsequent try, but they stood up and fought brilliantly. Hopefully Beno gets the message loud and clear that he's loved by the fans - that could have happened to anybody.
Very proud of the guys. Was fearing the worst after the red and subsequent try, but they stood up and fought brilliantly. Hopefully Beno gets the message loud and clear that he's loved by the fans - that could have happened to anybody.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 20:52
I didn't think it was red live in the ground, and having watched the replays loads, I still don't see how it was red. Beno was bent at both knees and waist. Augustus dips into the contact. Clear mitigation, so yellow at worst.
Really feel for Beno.
Fantastic effort from the team, all of whom can walk tall, and did themselves and the club proud.
Three key ball bounces favoured Saints - one for Sleightholme's try, and 2 that had the bounce been favourable were ceetain Bath tries.
Really disappointing result, but a fantastic performance.
Twickenham was the loudest I've ever experienced.
Congratulations Saints.
Really feel for Beno.
Fantastic effort from the team, all of whom can walk tall, and did themselves and the club proud.
Three key ball bounces favoured Saints - one for Sleightholme's try, and 2 that had the bounce been favourable were ceetain Bath tries.
Really disappointing result, but a fantastic performance.
Twickenham was the loudest I've ever experienced.
Congratulations Saints.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Beergoggles (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 21:11
Awesome Bath performance, very proud of the effort put in and I thought we might snatch it at the end. Congrats to Northampton. The best team over the season.
No doubt about the Red card but I detest a law that penalises the team and all supporters for an accidental error. Seems like a Red card for the player, a 10 minute yellow for the team, and the chance to put a substitute on after the 10 mins would achieve the objective of making the game safer without spoiling the contest. I remember England getting a similar red card in the 3rd minute of a six nations decider and thinking the 80,000 at Twickenham and the TV audience been robbed of a meaningful contest. Think I gave up on the game and walked the dog that day which I’m sure is not the outcome the powers that be are seeking.
No doubt about the Red card but I detest a law that penalises the team and all supporters for an accidental error. Seems like a Red card for the player, a 10 minute yellow for the team, and the chance to put a substitute on after the 10 mins would achieve the objective of making the game safer without spoiling the contest. I remember England getting a similar red card in the 3rd minute of a six nations decider and thinking the 80,000 at Twickenham and the TV audience been robbed of a meaningful contest. Think I gave up on the game and walked the dog that day which I’m sure is not the outcome the powers that be are seeking.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 21:40
Ultimately result decided by a terrible refereeing decision, never a red card.
Really pleased how Bath performed with 14 men and we were by far the better side in the second half.
Bath definitely on the up and here’s hoping for trophies in the cabinet soon.
On a general note, 9 years since I was last at Twickenham and it just reminded me what an awful venue it is.
Really pleased how Bath performed with 14 men and we were by far the better side in the second half.
Bath definitely on the up and here’s hoping for trophies in the cabinet soon.
On a general note, 9 years since I was last at Twickenham and it just reminded me what an awful venue it is.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 21:49
Firstly congratulations to Saints on the result and title, well deserved over the season. Met Lots of knowledgeable and friendly Saints fans and was great to see HQ packed to the rafters.
For me the red was the correct decision and from there was always going to be a tough ask, however the lads played brilliantly. TDT, Underhill, Hill, Ewels, Spencer etc all played their part.
Now let them have a good rest (for those not touring) and look forward to it all starting again in the autumn.
Thanks also to all those on ‘Ere for entertaining me over the season. Ok like a family we may not always see eye to eye on everything but of course it would be a lot more boring if we did.
Enjoy the summer one and all…
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
For me the red was the correct decision and from there was always going to be a tough ask, however the lads played brilliantly. TDT, Underhill, Hill, Ewels, Spencer etc all played their part.
Now let them have a good rest (for those not touring) and look forward to it all starting again in the autumn.
Thanks also to all those on ‘Ere for entertaining me over the season. Ok like a family we may not always see eye to eye on everything but of course it would be a lot more boring if we did.
Enjoy the summer one and all…
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 21:50
A great day out, and I can't remember being prouder of a Bath team. If we pulled it off, it truly would have been staggering
The red card was correct and I could see and feel Beno's devastation. But what came next shows we are more than just a 'paid for' team like others tried to paint us as.
Congrats to Northampton, and I am genuinely happy for their great fans who were fantastic all afternoon.
I'll be buying my final tickets for next year as soon as I can. We will be there, and we will win it
The red card was correct and I could see and feel Beno's devastation. But what came next shows we are more than just a 'paid for' team like others tried to paint us as.
Congrats to Northampton, and I am genuinely happy for their great fans who were fantastic all afternoon.
I'll be buying my final tickets for next year as soon as I can. We will be there, and we will win it
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 21:51
The red was tough, but also tough to argue. But for the bounce of the ball (twice to Gallagher, once to Sleightholme) we could easily have won.
The atmosphere at Twickenham was fantastic.
The atmosphere at Twickenham was fantastic.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 22:02
Some encouraging words from Ben Kay, who knows what he's talking about:
“When the red card happened we all thought it was going to be a long afternoon but they fought and it shows the belief that Johann van Graan and his coaches have instilled in a team that were serial underachievers.
And they were so close this afternoon. A huge effort from the blue, black and white but you look at who they’re losing in comparison to who other teams are losing and the strength in depth in every position that Bath have.
Despite losing today I think Bath are right back at the top for the next few years and could become the team that dominates the Premiership.
Sometimes you have to go to a final and lose one to realise what it’s all about. This team will stay here at the top, I think, for the next few years.”
Would echo comments above commending Saints - they're an excellent and very likeable team. A fitting send off for Lawes, who is right up there as a legend in my book, Waller and Ludlam, amongst others. They were the best side in the league this year.
Last word for Beno who is probably looking at his summer tour going by the wayside as well as the devastation of today. Poor bloke.
“When the red card happened we all thought it was going to be a long afternoon but they fought and it shows the belief that Johann van Graan and his coaches have instilled in a team that were serial underachievers.
And they were so close this afternoon. A huge effort from the blue, black and white but you look at who they’re losing in comparison to who other teams are losing and the strength in depth in every position that Bath have.
Despite losing today I think Bath are right back at the top for the next few years and could become the team that dominates the Premiership.
Sometimes you have to go to a final and lose one to realise what it’s all about. This team will stay here at the top, I think, for the next few years.”
Would echo comments above commending Saints - they're an excellent and very likeable team. A fitting send off for Lawes, who is right up there as a legend in my book, Waller and Ludlam, amongst others. They were the best side in the league this year.
Last word for Beno who is probably looking at his summer tour going by the wayside as well as the devastation of today. Poor bloke.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 22:02
Fantastic day, even in defeat. Oddly enjoyed every nerve shredding minute, from the brilliant Saints’ tries to every single bit of blue black and white skill, heart and fight that we saw from 1 to 23. Couldn’t be prouder of them, especially given where we’ve come from, in such a short space of time. It was only 18-24 months ago so many of us were still packing the Rec and arguing on ere despite the team being stone cold bottom and as far away from HQ as a Prem club could be.
Thank you to the players, To Bruce. To the management and backroom, but out and out above all to JvG who has made truly proud to be a Bath fan once again. Onwards and up up up upwards.
IMHO it was a red but another ref could have mitigated to a yellow. Game of the finest margins… just like Bailey’s knee on the floor before Hendy stripped the ball in the final play. Penalty to Bath it should’ve been. Hey ho. Bloody well done, Saints. Our turn next year.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Thank you to the players, To Bruce. To the management and backroom, but out and out above all to JvG who has made truly proud to be a Bath fan once again. Onwards and up up up upwards.
IMHO it was a red but another ref could have mitigated to a yellow. Game of the finest margins… just like Bailey’s knee on the floor before Hendy stripped the ball in the final play. Penalty to Bath it should’ve been. Hey ho. Bloody well done, Saints. Our turn next year.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Saints-Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 22:06
Hi guys,
I just wanted to say what an amazing credit your team and fans are to your club.
Bath have always been my second team ever since in ‘93 at the rec Bath fans delivered a 9 year old me back to my mum after I’d wandered off! My mum and me there today.
As far as I’m concerned, re todays game, you guys beat us fair and square and I honestly hand on heart thought you were going to win.
Re the red card I personally thought it was yellow. And it’s a real shame we didn’t have 15v15 for the game. But to be honest it’s all a bit of a blur.
Anyway sincere heart felt commiserations. We know what it’s like to be on the wrong end of a red card in a final. But all the best for next season. I’m not sure where we’ll be after our mass exodus at the end of the season but I know for a fact we’ll be seeing Bath winning lots over the next little while.
All the best. Saints Steve.
I just wanted to say what an amazing credit your team and fans are to your club.
Bath have always been my second team ever since in ‘93 at the rec Bath fans delivered a 9 year old me back to my mum after I’d wandered off! My mum and me there today.
As far as I’m concerned, re todays game, you guys beat us fair and square and I honestly hand on heart thought you were going to win.
Re the red card I personally thought it was yellow. And it’s a real shame we didn’t have 15v15 for the game. But to be honest it’s all a bit of a blur.
Anyway sincere heart felt commiserations. We know what it’s like to be on the wrong end of a red card in a final. But all the best for next season. I’m not sure where we’ll be after our mass exodus at the end of the season but I know for a fact we’ll be seeing Bath winning lots over the next little while.
All the best. Saints Steve.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 22:12
As a side note how often does a red really "ruin" a game.
If I think about two big games, a RWC Final and this game arguably (very depending on who you support!) as a spectacle the game didn't suffer.
I don't think it stopped either the last RWC final or this Prem one from being exciting.
Tbh anecdotally I'd say more often than not it creates a real drama. Think Ford/England's performance v the Pumas and so on.
That said I do think the idea of the red being for the player with a sub allowed is a decent compromise.
Also whilst Hooper 2.0s record of two seasons to a Prem title win is still unmatched by JVG you look in a fantastic place with him in charge.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:08:22:15:41 by OldMarovian.
If I think about two big games, a RWC Final and this game arguably (very depending on who you support!) as a spectacle the game didn't suffer.
I don't think it stopped either the last RWC final or this Prem one from being exciting.
Tbh anecdotally I'd say more often than not it creates a real drama. Think Ford/England's performance v the Pumas and so on.
That said I do think the idea of the red being for the player with a sub allowed is a decent compromise.
Also whilst Hooper 2.0s record of two seasons to a Prem title win is still unmatched by JVG you look in a fantastic place with him in charge.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:08:22:15:41 by OldMarovian.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 22:15
Quote:Someone made this point to me about 10 minutes after and I think he has a pointOldMarovian
As a side note how often does a red really "ruin" a game.
If I think about two big games, a RWC Final and this game arguably (very depending on who you support!) as a spectacle the game didn't suffer.
I don't think it stopped either the last RWC final or this Prem one from being exciting.
Tbh anecdotally I'd say more often than not it creates a real drama. Think Ford/England's performance v the Pumas and so on.
That said I do think the idea of the red being for the player with a sub allowed is a decent compromise.
The red added a psychology into both teams that produced the insanity we saw
Still think we would have won without it though!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 22:22
Quote:+1JK7
Says a lot that we've a few outsiders coming here to offer praise. Thanks to those that have.
A reminder that most rugby fans appreciate sport in the right way, and not said in a snobby, superior way as I love watching live football too. (Mind you, I said something after the semi-final game about how great it was to see how the Sale players dealt with defeat just as word of the Johnny Hill incident came out!).
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: WasBBWBaaBaa (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 22:25
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 22:51
Quote:A.M 180Quote:Someone made this point to me about 10 minutes after and I think he has a pointOldMarovian
As a side note how often does a red really "ruin" a game.
If I think about two big games, a RWC Final and this game arguably (very depending on who you support!) as a spectacle the game didn't suffer.
I don't think it stopped either the last RWC final or this Prem one from being exciting.
Tbh anecdotally I'd say more often than not it creates a real drama. Think Ford/England's performance v the Pumas and so on.
That said I do think the idea of the red being for the player with a sub allowed is a decent compromise.
The red added a psychology into both teams that produced the insanity we saw
Still think we would have won without it though!
It happened in a world cup final and nothing changed. A Prem final won't change it. World Rugby is wedded to it.
It feels uncomfortable that a timing error is in the same bracket as genuine violent conduct. Gouging and mistimed tackles are not in the same ballpark for me but they have the same impact over the 80 minutes (the suspension after benefitting nobody over the 80).
Obano clearly committed too soon. Augustus changed his height and he found himself in the wrong place. I can't remember who said it (maybe Faz?) but Rugby is a game about enforcing yourself on the opposition - these kind of timing errors will always happen. Rugby has committed to this path - it won't go back.
Having gone home and watched the replay I detest Healey's commentary on cards and the laws of the game. Ben Kay dealing with it far more sensibly and in a more useful way.
It's still a tragedy for me that a young Barbeary had his final ruined because of an enforced substitution - like double jeopardy. However bad Obano's tackle was he did not deserve that
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Rowancroft73 (IP Logged)
Date: 08/06/2024 23:01
As a Chiefs fan I come on here deliberately not having read any previous posts on this thread, so it’s my totally objective and unbiased opinion without influence of others!!
I actually wanted Saints to win. Final game for Lawes factor swayed me. However, from the start I couldn’t believe the way Bath ripped into it. Attacking every breakdown, Spencer giving Mitchell a lesson and for first 15 mins I only saw one winner.
The red card, no question imo, far from killing the game actually showed how far Bath have come in their belief and trust in each other and all the staff. The way it galvanised their effort had me thinking as the game progressed that it was still 15 v 15.
No doubt the best team on the day lost but scant consolation.
Not sure what Healey was doing, giving MoM to Hendy!! Think even he couldn’t believe it!
Maybe Freeman or Furbank tho Bath in Du Toit, Hill, Underhill, Spencer, Russell, Redpath and possibly Muir had the best players on the pitch .
JVG has been a great signing for you and I have no doubt this is just the start of Bath’s reincarnation.
Look fwd to future battles with you.
Be proud
I actually wanted Saints to win. Final game for Lawes factor swayed me. However, from the start I couldn’t believe the way Bath ripped into it. Attacking every breakdown, Spencer giving Mitchell a lesson and for first 15 mins I only saw one winner.
The red card, no question imo, far from killing the game actually showed how far Bath have come in their belief and trust in each other and all the staff. The way it galvanised their effort had me thinking as the game progressed that it was still 15 v 15.
No doubt the best team on the day lost but scant consolation.
Not sure what Healey was doing, giving MoM to Hendy!! Think even he couldn’t believe it!
Maybe Freeman or Furbank tho Bath in Du Toit, Hill, Underhill, Spencer, Russell, Redpath and possibly Muir had the best players on the pitch .
JVG has been a great signing for you and I have no doubt this is just the start of Bath’s reincarnation.
Look fwd to future battles with you.
Be proud
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 01:08
Quote:Rowancroft73
As a Chiefs fan I come on here deliberately not having read any previous posts on this thread, so it’s my totally objective and unbiased opinion without influence of others!!
I actually wanted Saints to win. Final game for Lawes factor swayed me. However, from the start I couldn’t believe the way Bath ripped into it. Attacking every breakdown, Spencer giving Mitchell a lesson and for first 15 mins I only saw one winner.
The red card, no question imo, far from killing the game actually showed how far Bath have come in their belief and trust in each other and all the staff. The way it galvanised their effort had me thinking as the game progressed that it was still 15 v 15.
No doubt the best team on the day lost but scant consolation.
Not sure what Healey was doing, giving MoM to Hendy!! Think even he couldn’t believe it!
Maybe Freeman or Furbank tho Bath in Du Toit, Hill, Underhill, Spencer, Russell, Redpath and possibly Muir had the best players on the pitch .
JVG has been a great signing for you and I have no doubt this is just the start of Bath’s reincarnation.
Look fwd to future battles with you.
Be proud
If you've read the thread now you'll know that we are deeply proud of how our team represented us and the shirt. Yes, it would have been nice to win but this performance means much, much more than that.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Shinpads1 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 01:56
Fantastic performance from Bath but you need to get rid of Russell. He wins nothing.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 07:45
Quote:Shinpads1
Fantastic performance from Bath but you need to get rid of Russell. He wins nothing.
Remember folks, never post when drunk.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BeatsWorking (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 07:47
Quote:Rowancroft73
As a Chiefs fan I come on here deliberately not having read any previous posts on this thread, so it’s my totally objective and unbiased opinion without influence of others!!
I actually wanted Saints to win. Final game for Lawes factor swayed me. However, from the start I couldn’t believe the way Bath ripped into it. Attacking every breakdown, Spencer giving Mitchell a lesson and for first 15 mins I only saw one winner.
The red card, no question imo, far from killing the game actually showed how far Bath have come in their belief and trust in each other and all the staff. The way it galvanised their effort had me thinking as the game progressed that it was still 15 v 15.
No doubt the best team on the day lost but scant consolation.
Not sure what Healey was doing, giving MoM to Hendy!! Think even he couldn’t believe it!
Maybe Freeman or Furbank tho Bath in Du Toit, Hill, Underhill, Spencer, Russell, Redpath and possibly Muir had the best players on the pitch .
JVG has been a great signing for you and I have no doubt this is just the start of Bath’s reincarnation.
Look fwd to future battles with you.
Be proud
Thanks Rowancroft, really classy comment and looking forward with optimism too... this feels very different to the morning after in 2015 ... 😀 In years to come I hope we might look back at this final as a real turning point. Who knows.. maybe we'll get a stadium built at some point too?!!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:09:08:38:30 by BeatsWorking.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 07:55
Interesting day out.
Chatted to a very knowledgeable tigers and saints fan on the train down. Coming from Yorkshire through the Midlands I was rather out numbered but wore by my 92/93 season shirt with pride and was all very good natured all day (one vaping argument in the seats next to me aside). Managed to meet a few mates ( and miss a few others).
With the current protocols it's hard to argue with the red. Ridley could have made more of the Augustus 'dip' and beno being hinged at the waist but he would have been fudging it.
Whether the protocols are right and how much it disadvantages a team I don't know but watching live the impact feels huge - you have a much wider view than the TV coverage and we just always looked light on numbers, esp if we ever tried to put any width on the game.
Good decision to immediately bring schoeman on for barbeary (gutted for him)- don't think we could have managed the situation any better tbh. Shame to concede 2 tries quickly but sleightholme will never repeat that kick in his life!
Underhill was immense- some carries and hits off the charts. Tdt to go 80 playing with sides of the scrum was an unreal effort- what a signing! Just an incredibly gutsy performance all round. Gallagher was good but always felt we would miss the pace of tdg on a day like that.
Saints I thought were v poor on the day and contributed to keeping us in it til the final whistle but they finished top of the log, have played some lovely rugby all season and are a club its pretty easy to like at present. Glad their players are getting recognised at international level. Congrats to them, well deserved over the course of the season.
For us- prem is soooo tight and hard to guarantee much but agree with kay that we could stay up near the top for the next few seasons. Secured all our best players, couple of decent signings, settled coaching set up, top s&c/ medics, and now the burning desire to go one step better.
Chatted to a very knowledgeable tigers and saints fan on the train down. Coming from Yorkshire through the Midlands I was rather out numbered but wore by my 92/93 season shirt with pride and was all very good natured all day (one vaping argument in the seats next to me aside). Managed to meet a few mates ( and miss a few others).
With the current protocols it's hard to argue with the red. Ridley could have made more of the Augustus 'dip' and beno being hinged at the waist but he would have been fudging it.
Whether the protocols are right and how much it disadvantages a team I don't know but watching live the impact feels huge - you have a much wider view than the TV coverage and we just always looked light on numbers, esp if we ever tried to put any width on the game.
Good decision to immediately bring schoeman on for barbeary (gutted for him)- don't think we could have managed the situation any better tbh. Shame to concede 2 tries quickly but sleightholme will never repeat that kick in his life!
Underhill was immense- some carries and hits off the charts. Tdt to go 80 playing with sides of the scrum was an unreal effort- what a signing! Just an incredibly gutsy performance all round. Gallagher was good but always felt we would miss the pace of tdg on a day like that.
Saints I thought were v poor on the day and contributed to keeping us in it til the final whistle but they finished top of the log, have played some lovely rugby all season and are a club its pretty easy to like at present. Glad their players are getting recognised at international level. Congrats to them, well deserved over the course of the season.
For us- prem is soooo tight and hard to guarantee much but agree with kay that we could stay up near the top for the next few seasons. Secured all our best players, couple of decent signings, settled coaching set up, top s&c/ medics, and now the burning desire to go one step better.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 08:11
I have long since thought of the intrinsic unfairness of a red card. The punishment to the team concerned if a players is sent off in the 10th minute compared to one sent off in the 70th minute is out of all proportion. There should be a balance in the level of punishment dished out which is why the idea of a 20min or even 30min removal is the fairest way to deal with it. I believe that has been discussed by the ruling bodies but don’t know of the outcome.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: copester (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 08:20
Quote:Charlieboa1
Interesting day out.
Chatted to a very knowledgeable tigers and saints fan on the train down. Coming from Yorkshire through the Midlands I was rather out numbered but wore by my 92/93 season shirt with pride and was all very good natured all day (one vaping argument in the seats next to me aside). Managed to meet a few mates ( and miss a few others).
With the current protocols it's hard to argue with the red. Ridley could have made more of the Augustus 'dip' and beno being hinged at the waist but he would have been fudging it.
Whether the protocols are right and how much it disadvantages a team I don't know but watching live the impact feels huge - you have a much wider view than the TV coverage and we just always looked light on numbers, esp if we ever tried to put any width on the game.
Good decision to immediately bring schoeman on for barbeary (gutted for him)- don't think we could have managed the situation any better tbh. Shame to concede 2 tries quickly but sleightholme will never repeat that kick in his life!
Underhill was immense- some carries and hits off the charts. Tdt to go 80 playing with sides of the scrum was an unreal effort- what a signing! Just an incredibly gutsy performance all round. Gallagher was good but always felt we would miss the pace of tdg on a day like that.
Saints I thought were v poor on the day and contributed to keeping us in it til the final whistle but they finished top of the log, have played some lovely rugby all season and are a club its pretty easy to like at present. Glad their players are getting recognised at international level. Congrats to them, well deserved over the course of the season.
For us- prem is soooo tight and hard to guarantee much but agree with kay that we could stay up near the top for the next few seasons. Secured all our best players, couple of decent signings, settled coaching set up, top s&c/ medics, and now the burning desire to go one step better.
Agree with your analysis Charlie especially TDG, I still think bringing Stuart on instead of Schumann would of kept the scrum dominance.
Still very proud.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 08:24
Quote:Bath Hammer
I have long since thought of the intrinsic unfairness of a red card. The punishment to the team concerned if a players is sent off in the 10th minute compared to one sent off in the 70th minute is out of all proportion. There should be a balance in the level of punishment dished out which is why the idea of a 20min or even 30min removal is the fairest way to deal with it. I believe that has been discussed by the ruling bodies but don’t know of the outcome.
I believe the 20 minute red is being trialled in Super Rugby but only for a red that has been uprated from yellow on review. No idea how it's actually going but you'd have thought Beno's would have been one of those. The straight red with no replacement is reserved for really serious foul play (gouging, punching, etc)
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:09:08:25:07 by joethefanatic.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: theredseat (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 08:30
I don’t have much to add to what has been said above. Proud of them all and how the club has come and hopefully Beno is being looked after at the moment.
One thing I would add to the point about bouncing back is that Moloney could prove to be an outstanding signing for that purpose. He’s won the lot and you always need something a bit different to go again the next year and he could prove to be vital in getting us over the line for a trophy.
One thing I would add to the point about bouncing back is that Moloney could prove to be an outstanding signing for that purpose. He’s won the lot and you always need something a bit different to go again the next year and he could prove to be vital in getting us over the line for a trophy.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 08:35
Quote:WasBBWBaaBaa
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jun/08/beno-obano-bath-northampton-premiership-final-rugby-union
This article is spot on and England in particular is suffering from poor officials.
Almost identical incident in Super Rugby a few weeks ago between Chiefs and Blues, yellow card, went to review, not upgraded to red. Game not ruined and entertaining game ensued.
The Saints player didn’t go off for HIA so for me no HIA = no head contact.
The Bath players no doubt feel robbed, but they can be proud of their efforts this season.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 08:39
I think it's all been said, nevertheless we had a great day out, great atmosphere with front row seats.
only downside was getting out of Tesco car park!
Complete change of tack today, a visit to Nick Masons Garden Party, food and Ferraris !
Already looking forward to next season
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
only downside was getting out of Tesco car park!
Complete change of tack today, a visit to Nick Masons Garden Party, food and Ferraris !
Already looking forward to next season
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 08:55
V interesting point about the subs copester- stuart for beno at 20 mins and swap over tdt at that point was an option.
Wonder why they went a different route.
OB- the no hia is poor I think. Why didn't he get assessed from a player safety perspective!? If its deemed head oj head contact with force what on earth are the medics and officials doing letting him just play him? I was there so no idea if it was dealt with appropriately but seems odd to me.
On a side note, what a fitting end for lawes. Don't agree with some of his non- rugby opinions but as a player what a legend he has been for saints, England and the lions. Supreme athlete and competitor, hope he enjoys France and I see geech puting him forward as a lions captaincy option!
Wonder why they went a different route.
OB- the no hia is poor I think. Why didn't he get assessed from a player safety perspective!? If its deemed head oj head contact with force what on earth are the medics and officials doing letting him just play him? I was there so no idea if it was dealt with appropriately but seems odd to me.
On a side note, what a fitting end for lawes. Don't agree with some of his non- rugby opinions but as a player what a legend he has been for saints, England and the lions. Supreme athlete and competitor, hope he enjoys France and I see geech puting him forward as a lions captaincy option!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: @Hydor18 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 09:01
Rare that I feel so emotionally drained and disappointed after a game of rugby.
It was a brilliant match, and our boys played so, so well, and full respect and congratulations to Saints.
It was a brilliant match, and our boys played so, so well, and full respect and congratulations to Saints.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 09:14
Interesting to see which players end up touring for England now and how much that game might have changed things.
Underhill with his best game in an age may well have locked up 7 for the tour. Spencer should really have put himself in the conversation in the 23. Ewels with another solid performance maybe forced his way in? Muir seems well suited to some of Borthwicks gameplan. Stuart was fine. Lawrence solid but feels like he's stalled in the second part of this season. Obano, like Barbeary previously, could quite possibly miss out with a ban. Barbeary another whose close of the season has been quiet. Anyone else made a case?
I don't think F Smith had the game he needed to push ahead of M Smith (although over the season he's done that repeatedly IMO) with Ford possibly not touring this might have been his chance to snag the start. Furbank excellent. Freeman confirmed his spot on one wing with Sleightholme making a good case for the touring squad. I thought Dingwall had a solid game and feel we should probably look at him at 12 again (Lawrence at 13?) Langdon ok before he went off but his work over the season definitely gets him on tour and in the conversation for the 23. Coles fine, one dumb penalty aside, but another Saints player who probably fluffed his lines slightly in this biggest game.
Mitchell had a terrible game but has been great all season so probably holds the start. I really like Pearson and he was fine but whilst he might tour he's not doing enough to trouble the 23. I'd definitely take Davison. Situation at TH is grim and without him Saints scrum would have been obliterated.
(edit) Oops. Missed out T Hill who should definitely be touring, possibly even a shout for the 23.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:09:09:26:24 by OldMarovian.
Underhill with his best game in an age may well have locked up 7 for the tour. Spencer should really have put himself in the conversation in the 23. Ewels with another solid performance maybe forced his way in? Muir seems well suited to some of Borthwicks gameplan. Stuart was fine. Lawrence solid but feels like he's stalled in the second part of this season. Obano, like Barbeary previously, could quite possibly miss out with a ban. Barbeary another whose close of the season has been quiet. Anyone else made a case?
I don't think F Smith had the game he needed to push ahead of M Smith (although over the season he's done that repeatedly IMO) with Ford possibly not touring this might have been his chance to snag the start. Furbank excellent. Freeman confirmed his spot on one wing with Sleightholme making a good case for the touring squad. I thought Dingwall had a solid game and feel we should probably look at him at 12 again (Lawrence at 13?) Langdon ok before he went off but his work over the season definitely gets him on tour and in the conversation for the 23. Coles fine, one dumb penalty aside, but another Saints player who probably fluffed his lines slightly in this biggest game.
Mitchell had a terrible game but has been great all season so probably holds the start. I really like Pearson and he was fine but whilst he might tour he's not doing enough to trouble the 23. I'd definitely take Davison. Situation at TH is grim and without him Saints scrum would have been obliterated.
(edit) Oops. Missed out T Hill who should definitely be touring, possibly even a shout for the 23.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:09:09:26:24 by OldMarovian.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: nigewing (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 09:34
Watched on ITV from my sofa. 80 minutes of chaotic (mainly in the best way) entertainment by the best 2 teams over the season. Perfect conditions & full house at Twickers (not my lounge 🤣). Some standout Saints: classy Furbank, Lawes always a threat & Langdon lively. We were on top until the red having defended multiple phases forcing a drop goal.
Red? Probably, but as others said another ref may have mitigated it down to yellow.
The game was lost as the shock of Beno’s exit derailed us for 10 minutes & Sleightholme benefitted from the luckiest bounce I’ve seen in ages. He should do the lottery this week.
We managed the loss of Beno after the 2 quick tries & dominated from then on until we ran out of legs at the end. Spencer man marked Mitchell out of the game in a clearly pre-planned tactic. As the 2nd half progressed my hope rose with it but we were undone by some marginal incorrect refereeing decisions that Geordan Murphy picked up. Mitchell was clearly offside in 22 after Langdon knocked on. Clear penalty but scrum given. Scrum penalty again deep in Saints territory when Stuart clearly holding his own when Saints sub loose head elbow goes to ground first before pulling Stuart down. Final play Hendy could have been pinged for a couple of offences including offside & coming in from side as he wasn’t the tackler.
MOTM? TdT or Underhill. Take your pick.
Deep breath. Bath’s future looks bright with this group and JvG at the helm. Strength in depth & pathway bringing aling others like Griffin & Harris.
Saints & Bath showing the way forward & if Borthers doesn’t use them he must be blind. But they’ll need some rest & hope they don’t come back from tour broken 🤞
Cmon you Bath
Red? Probably, but as others said another ref may have mitigated it down to yellow.
The game was lost as the shock of Beno’s exit derailed us for 10 minutes & Sleightholme benefitted from the luckiest bounce I’ve seen in ages. He should do the lottery this week.
We managed the loss of Beno after the 2 quick tries & dominated from then on until we ran out of legs at the end. Spencer man marked Mitchell out of the game in a clearly pre-planned tactic. As the 2nd half progressed my hope rose with it but we were undone by some marginal incorrect refereeing decisions that Geordan Murphy picked up. Mitchell was clearly offside in 22 after Langdon knocked on. Clear penalty but scrum given. Scrum penalty again deep in Saints territory when Stuart clearly holding his own when Saints sub loose head elbow goes to ground first before pulling Stuart down. Final play Hendy could have been pinged for a couple of offences including offside & coming in from side as he wasn’t the tackler.
MOTM? TdT or Underhill. Take your pick.
Deep breath. Bath’s future looks bright with this group and JvG at the helm. Strength in depth & pathway bringing aling others like Griffin & Harris.
Saints & Bath showing the way forward & if Borthers doesn’t use them he must be blind. But they’ll need some rest & hope they don’t come back from tour broken 🤞
Cmon you Bath
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 09:58
Quote:OutsideBathQuote:WasBBWBaaBaa
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jun/08/beno-obano-bath-northampton-premiership-final-rugby-union
This article is spot on and England in particular is suffering from poor officials.
….
The Saints player didn’t go off for HIA so for me no HIA = no head contact.
The Bath players no doubt feel robbed, but they can be proud of their efforts this season.
With the greatest respect OB, that is clearly nonsense. English refs are amongst the very best in the world, as demonstrated by their being called up for the most important games. I would counter that the understanding of the Laws from most of the fans is extremely poor.
As for HIA again you have misunderstood the protocols (or simply not read them). The independent doctors have a checklist to run through, from video evidence through to the full HIA.
I strongly suspect that none of the Bath players feel robbed in relation to that red - they understand very well the process. I have heard zero complaints from the players or JVG. They all know what is expected of them and they choose to flirt with risk when they go for upright dominant tackles. If anyone says it’s not possible then speak to Lawes, TDT, Underhill etc.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 10:08
A great day at Twickenham my first since the Clash games really enjoyed not sure why you don’t like the venue OB? Yesterday I thought Twickers was filled with proper Rugby supporters not the Prawn sandwich brigade.
A captivating game I don’t think our boys left anything out there. Our forwards are now a match for any teamIMHO
Underhill outstanding. Finn was everywhere love watching him play in the BB & W
Looking forward to the next couple of seasons
Allez Bath🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪
Widcombe Garçon
A captivating game I don’t think our boys left anything out there. Our forwards are now a match for any teamIMHO
Underhill outstanding. Finn was everywhere love watching him play in the BB & W
Looking forward to the next couple of seasons
Allez Bath🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪🇪
Widcombe Garçon
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 10:09
What are the hia protocols matt out of interest?
Did seem odd to me tbh that a bloke can get smashed in the chin by someone's head and an hia is deemed unnecessary.
Sure it's my ignorance but on the face of it did seem a weird oversight.
Not disputing the red in any way- under protocols there just wasn't enough mitigation to downgrade and even if it wasn't concusive it could have been a jaw breaker.
Did seem odd to me tbh that a bloke can get smashed in the chin by someone's head and an hia is deemed unnecessary.
Sure it's my ignorance but on the face of it did seem a weird oversight.
Not disputing the red in any way- under protocols there just wasn't enough mitigation to downgrade and even if it wasn't concusive it could have been a jaw breaker.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 10:33
Quote:Charlieboa1
What are the hia protocols matt out of interest?
Did seem odd to me tbh that a bloke can get smashed in the chin by someone's head and an hia is deemed unnecessary.
Sure it's my ignorance but on the face of it did seem a weird oversight.
Not disputing the red in any way- under protocols there just wasn't enough mitigation to downgrade and even if it wasn't concusive it could have been a jaw breaker.
Can't quite bring myself to watch it again but pretty certain Augustus immediately pointed at his head. Also made a meal of a 'seatbelt' tackle a few minutes later, gesturing to the ref. Strikes me that if you're going to make an issue of something in the hope of a card coming out, you can go and see the doctor for 10 mins.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 10:39
My understanding is that it is entirely down to the Independent Match Day Doctor, furnished with a suite of tools, to decide whether a player needs to be removed, unless it is an obvious concussion in which case the ref may just say that an HIA isn’t even needed - the play must be permanently replaced. I’m sure the officials and IMDD know the procedure.
I suspect that neither pointing to own head or making a meal of a seatbelt tackle are in the World Rugby Protocols.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
I suspect that neither pointing to own head or making a meal of a seatbelt tackle are in the World Rugby Protocols.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 11:01
On the red, I thought the way JvG handled it in the game was spot on. Tough on Barbeary but we needed to keep width then the move late in the game to bring Reid on for Coka, to go back to an 8 man pack, almost made the impossible possible at the mail. Also, as per the above thought, I prefer Stuart for impact, so right call to bring on Schoe. Cool heads in the coaching box, and on field, where Ewels, Spencer and Russell led us wonderfully throughout.
A point about pace in our team versus our rivals- Saints have bags of it whereas we have more industrious back 3 players. Gallagher has perhaps been my player of the post 6 Nations but pace isn’t his key asset and especially when down to 14, in attack, we looked a little lateral and lumbersome. In defence, if you work incredibly hard, you can cover for the missing man, but much harder to be threatening in attack, especially with our main carrier (+Obano, another huge carrier) off. We’ve missed TDG and next year it’ll be great him and Harris, perhaps even Grace, being able to attack off a solid platform and an established set of inside backs.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
A point about pace in our team versus our rivals- Saints have bags of it whereas we have more industrious back 3 players. Gallagher has perhaps been my player of the post 6 Nations but pace isn’t his key asset and especially when down to 14, in attack, we looked a little lateral and lumbersome. In defence, if you work incredibly hard, you can cover for the missing man, but much harder to be threatening in attack, especially with our main carrier (+Obano, another huge carrier) off. We’ve missed TDG and next year it’ll be great him and Harris, perhaps even Grace, being able to attack off a solid platform and an established set of inside backs.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: theredseat (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 11:02
On the England prospects I felt like Mitchell reverted to what he was a year or two back yesterday. Showed intent but not always at the right time and didn’t really show up for a full 80. I think Spencer has been the best English 9 for a while now and better international teams would fancy their chances to keep him quiet based on yesterday.
Freeman is a more or less a definite starter at this point and either Sleightholme or IFW on the other side or bench feels like a nice balance. Furbank was Saints best player for my money and happy for him to get a run at 15 and think Davison has earned a tour too.
Don’t think Langdon helped his chances yesterday. Busy but got a bit bullied by bigger boys too often but has earned a touring spot before that.
Underhill showed again he’s the best 7 available (in absence of Willis) and there’s no need to rush Curry in when you have a better option right there. Hill would have done his chances no harm either.
Freeman is a more or less a definite starter at this point and either Sleightholme or IFW on the other side or bench feels like a nice balance. Furbank was Saints best player for my money and happy for him to get a run at 15 and think Davison has earned a tour too.
Don’t think Langdon helped his chances yesterday. Busy but got a bit bullied by bigger boys too often but has earned a touring spot before that.
Underhill showed again he’s the best 7 available (in absence of Willis) and there’s no need to rush Curry in when you have a better option right there. Hill would have done his chances no harm either.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 11:35
Red cards do, sometimes, ruin games and sometimes they don't, from a neutral spectators point of view. They very often do fundamentally change the nature of the game. The question is should one missed timed tackle change a game in that way?
Surely you've got to say no? Not least because it isn't working. We're still getting head contact, we're still getting a litter of cards. The reason is clear I think. These are not incidents where people are making active decisions to tackle high so sanctioning them for involuntary actions just isn't going to work. If I told you someone would get a red before this game I doubt you'd be able to give me any insight into who or even which team.
Red cards should primarily be too take dangerous thugs out of harms way. The sanction that goes with it, including history and all that, is decided later, not in the heat of battle which half the information missing. Get back to that and you've improved the game far more than you will introducing any colour card you like. We need to find another way to solve hard contact, but I think the amateur hand is getting there far quicker.
Otherwise, great game. Congratulations to saints, over the season the best team.
Surely you've got to say no? Not least because it isn't working. We're still getting head contact, we're still getting a litter of cards. The reason is clear I think. These are not incidents where people are making active decisions to tackle high so sanctioning them for involuntary actions just isn't going to work. If I told you someone would get a red before this game I doubt you'd be able to give me any insight into who or even which team.
Red cards should primarily be too take dangerous thugs out of harms way. The sanction that goes with it, including history and all that, is decided later, not in the heat of battle which half the information missing. Get back to that and you've improved the game far more than you will introducing any colour card you like. We need to find another way to solve hard contact, but I think the amateur hand is getting there far quicker.
Otherwise, great game. Congratulations to saints, over the season the best team.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 11:45
I think that the red card debate (ie at World Rugby level) is different from the Refs, whose job is to apply those laws and interpretations, being ‘poor officials’. I don’t have a strong view on the current red card situation but think the English refs are, on the whole, excellent. Ridley was very good yesterday, as were his team IMO.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: annie blackthorn (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 11:53
Great game of rugby! I simply refuse to join in the nit picking comments above. So Obano got a red which didn't help, but did not lose us the game. Finn unusually missed a penalty which one could add to the count. As said, I do hope that Obano is being 'supported' and can come to terms with it - I am not a professional rugby player and neither are any of you, so no idea how they cope mentally when things go wrong. isn't that what a professional club's support of specialists t is for? Anyway the future is bright and its blue black and white!
Frankly, I thought that the Bath coaching analysis of Saints strengths and weaknesses was spot on and it stopped them playing their best game throughout the match. Russell no doubt watching like a calculating hawk throughout. Sad to see Lawes in particular playing his last game for Saints as he moves to France to boost his pension, he will be sorely missed at Saints as well as for England.
Frankly, I thought that the Bath coaching analysis of Saints strengths and weaknesses was spot on and it stopped them playing their best game throughout the match. Russell no doubt watching like a calculating hawk throughout. Sad to see Lawes in particular playing his last game for Saints as he moves to France to boost his pension, he will be sorely missed at Saints as well as for England.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 11:58
Quote:BathMatt53
I think that the red card debate (ie at World Rugby level) is different from the Refs, whose job is to apply those laws and interpretations, being ‘poor officials’. I don’t have a strong view on the current red card situation but think the English refs are, on the whole, excellent. Ridley was very good yesterday, as were his team IMO.
I make a direct comparison with Super Rugby BM and in that respect their refs are excellent and by comparison English refs are poor. French refs are a bit hit and miss, but they have one or two that are better than ours.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 13:50
Sorry but SR refereeing is poor OB.
I've been watching Fergus Burke at the Crusaders since he returned and the standard there is really poor. High-shots still routinely ignored ditto forward passes.
For me you're mixing up referees letting the game flow by ignoring foul play, forward passes, obvious obstructions with doing a good job refereeing.
Agree with BM. It's only watching other Leagues that you appreciate how good our referees are.
I've been watching Fergus Burke at the Crusaders since he returned and the standard there is really poor. High-shots still routinely ignored ditto forward passes.
For me you're mixing up referees letting the game flow by ignoring foul play, forward passes, obvious obstructions with doing a good job refereeing.
Agree with BM. It's only watching other Leagues that you appreciate how good our referees are.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 14:00
I personally think Southern Hemisphere referees are generally poor - they are often inconsistent and liberal with their interpretations, one thing they do appear to have got right is the 20 minute red card, meaning as was the case in the RWC cup final and yesterday an early Red basically leaves more questions than answers and supporters of both sides are left thinking who would have won 15 v 15.
Yesterday was superb the noise and passion of both supporters was amazing it is just a shame the game was tainted but I would argue what options did Christophe Ridley have - Foley tries to talk him into a yellow but clearly no support from either Pearce or Woodthorpe.
Did anyone see the incident at the start of the match where Langdon appeared to strike Redpath in the face following a bit of pushing, surprised it wasn’t looked at.
Anyway congratulations to Saints I do think over the season they were the best team I. The Premiership. JVG & Co now need to galvanise the feelings and massive improvements made this season to make a serious charge next season.
Yesterday was superb the noise and passion of both supporters was amazing it is just a shame the game was tainted but I would argue what options did Christophe Ridley have - Foley tries to talk him into a yellow but clearly no support from either Pearce or Woodthorpe.
Did anyone see the incident at the start of the match where Langdon appeared to strike Redpath in the face following a bit of pushing, surprised it wasn’t looked at.
Anyway congratulations to Saints I do think over the season they were the best team I. The Premiership. JVG & Co now need to galvanise the feelings and massive improvements made this season to make a serious charge next season.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: WasBBWBaaBaa (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 14:33
Did anyone see the incident at the start of the match where Langdon appeared to strike Redpath in the face following a bit of pushing, surprised it wasn’t looked at.
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I saw that, and it did result in a blow to the head, albeit not very hard. I am not here to criticise refs, but "when is a blow to the head, not a blow to the heard"?
p.s Having refed a little a junior club level, its a tough job!
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I saw that, and it did result in a blow to the head, albeit not very hard. I am not here to criticise refs, but "when is a blow to the head, not a blow to the heard"?
p.s Having refed a little a junior club level, its a tough job!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 16:17
I think the ref was fine yesterday, he followed the process but I'm not really sure why there wasn't sure mitigation on the grounds of the attackers height. Either way he followed the process well enough and it ends there sometimes. The head contact process however is wrong, too many cards, too arbitrary and it's not effective. Red cards should be the exception.
I don't really have a problem with 20 min cards but if you could sort head contact what function would they really have? Red cards aren't solving this problem, why would a lesser card do it?
I don't really have a problem with 20 min cards but if you could sort head contact what function would they really have? Red cards aren't solving this problem, why would a lesser card do it?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 16:23
I might be wrong but are reds still not very much the exception? It seems as if there was a lot of them about 12-18 month ago and for the most part this season most of the league has been pretty card free.
Maybe that’s just because I mostly watch Bath, and our discipline has been good, with clearly a lot of attention given to technique, especially from the likes of Ewels. Ironic that we couldn’t stay as clean in the final!
Also ironic that 3 major finals I’ve watched - World Cup, Euro and Prem - have had red cards in them. Something about pressure causing recklessness?
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Maybe that’s just because I mostly watch Bath, and our discipline has been good, with clearly a lot of attention given to technique, especially from the likes of Ewels. Ironic that we couldn’t stay as clean in the final!
Also ironic that 3 major finals I’ve watched - World Cup, Euro and Prem - have had red cards in them. Something about pressure causing recklessness?
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 16:48
Dan possibly because he was driving from low to high? Had he stayed at the height he was bent at I could see it being mitigated.
Still interested to know whether Underhill was an HIA or gamesmanship?
Still interested to know whether Underhill was an HIA or gamesmanship?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 16:59
Quote:OldMarovian
Dan possibly because he was driving from low to high? Had he stayed at the height he was bent at I could see it being mitigated.
Still interested to know whether Underhill was an HIA or gamesmanship?
Driving slightly upwards defo painted a bad picture for beno.
Hard to follow everything when in the stadium, what's the accusation with underhill? And to what benefit?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 17:10
If he was off for an HIA this was not a decision that could have been made by the player or the Bath camp - the very reason that the doctor is independent means that even the possibility of that (and the use of blood capsules etc) is ruled out.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 17:11
Commentary said he was pulled for a "blood" which given there was very little and he could gave been taped on field would seem to be gamesmanship to give him a breather before sending him back on.
That said it looks like he was off almost exactly 10 minutes so I'm guessing it was actually an HIA?
That said it looks like he was off almost exactly 10 minutes so I'm guessing it was actually an HIA?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 17:14
Suspect the commentary was wrong then. Telegraph reposting that it was an HIA:
‘When Northampton finally scored their third try, thanks to George Hendy’s mazy run and more instinctive support play from Mitchell, Underhill was off the pitch. Having passed his head injury assessment, he returned to the fray with Saints 25-21 ahead.’
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:09:17:17:19 by BathMatt53.
‘When Northampton finally scored their third try, thanks to George Hendy’s mazy run and more instinctive support play from Mitchell, Underhill was off the pitch. Having passed his head injury assessment, he returned to the fray with Saints 25-21 ahead.’
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:09:17:17:19 by BathMatt53.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 17:29
24 hours on. Finally feel calm enough to post. Overwhelming emotion now is pride in the whole team, closely followed by irrational rage and bitter disappointment. Credit to Saints, they have had a great season and deserve the silverware.
It was fantastic seeing so many BBW shirts at Twickenham yesterday and Bath silenced the Saints majority for long periods. We are back.
This time next year, Rodders....
It was fantastic seeing so many BBW shirts at Twickenham yesterday and Bath silenced the Saints majority for long periods. We are back.
This time next year, Rodders....
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 17:57
sorry answering a question that had already been answered.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:09:17:58:10 by Which Tyler.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:09:17:58:10 by Which Tyler.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 18:05
Just browsed the Saints' message board. Blimey, I thought the Sale posts were commendably objective. Very balanced and respectful. Then I went on the Norwich City forum. Reminds me what I like about both sports. The latter merciless, very provocative and at times very aggressive but often very funny. If any Saints poster is reading this board, good on you for your honesty and class. In the unlikely event of a NCFC fan reading this, here's to the binners getting relegated with the lowest points won EVER!!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 19:00
Quote:Widcombe boy
A great day at Twickenham my first since the Clash games really enjoyed not sure why you don’t like the venue OB? Yesterday I thought Twickers was filled with proper Rugby supporters not the Prawn sandwich brigade.
What don’t I like about Twickenham?
Awful location that’s a nightmare to get to by train and even worse to get away from, ripoff seat prices to be seated a long way from the pitch, overpriced rubbish beer, overpriced rubbish food and no reserved for Bath fans ( personally I didn’t want to sit with any Saints fans)
I guess had Bath got the win they thoroughly deserved I might have felt better about going there.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:09:19:40:57 by OutsideBath.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 19:22
Twickenham does feel very poorly located and planned out compared with the modern stadiums. It’s a bit of a dinosaur.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 19:25
Yeh oddly located but through rose tinted specs I enjoyed the walk from station to ground with all rugby shirts on show.
Can see it’s inconvenient and seriously outdated compared to the facilities at newer stadiums, but something pleasingly nostalgic about the whole experience (£8 pint aside).
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Can see it’s inconvenient and seriously outdated compared to the facilities at newer stadiums, but something pleasingly nostalgic about the whole experience (£8 pint aside).
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 19:33
Quote:But apart from that OB?OutsideBath
What don’t I like about Twickenham?
Awful location that’s a nightmare to get to by train and even worse to get away from, ripoff seat prices to be seated a long way from the pitch, overpriced rubbish beer, overpriced rubbish food and no reserved for Bath fans ( personally I didn’t want to sit with any Saints fans)
I guess had Bath bothering they thoroughly deserved I might have felt better about going there.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 19:41
Well it's been located there for 100+ years.
It's not too bad to get to by train if you are on any of the lines that go through Capham Junction.
Richmond is on the funny line that goes round to north London.
Train station is only a 15 minute walk.
It's really easy to get into and out of the ground an too your seats.
Having sat is various spots all round the stadium the views are all good.
Seats are a long way from the pitch.
The 'big' screen is not big enough or clear enough to see from 135 metres away!
The stadium music is too loud (not by much, but a bit) and whoever is in control of it has no idea about stopping it before play restarts, not after.
All sports, music, festival venues have rip off beer and food prices - the owners of the venues gouge the sellers who then gouge the customers. Just like the airports.
It's not too bad to get to by train if you are on any of the lines that go through Capham Junction.
Richmond is on the funny line that goes round to north London.
Train station is only a 15 minute walk.
It's really easy to get into and out of the ground an too your seats.
Having sat is various spots all round the stadium the views are all good.
Seats are a long way from the pitch.
The 'big' screen is not big enough or clear enough to see from 135 metres away!
The stadium music is too loud (not by much, but a bit) and whoever is in control of it has no idea about stopping it before play restarts, not after.
All sports, music, festival venues have rip off beer and food prices - the owners of the venues gouge the sellers who then gouge the customers. Just like the airports.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 19:41
Quote:TomReaganQuote:But apart from that OB?OutsideBath
What don’t I like about Twickenham?
Awful location that’s a nightmare to get to by train and even worse to get away from, ripoff seat prices to be seated a long way from the pitch, overpriced rubbish beer, overpriced rubbish food and no reserved for Bath fans ( personally I didn’t want to sit with any Saints fans)
I guess had Bath got the win they thoroughly deserved I might have felt better about going there.
Day out with my wife., 😎👍
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 19:49
Was at the game yesterday but too emotionally involved to be objective.
Just re-watched it now.
Happy with all the calls.
Just really, really impressed with the Bath players.....
I also feel for Beno.....however 2 years ago he was out for a whole season and fought his way back to his current excellent form. He is a strong man, in so many ways!
Only issue is that I can't wait until next season!!
Just re-watched it now.
Happy with all the calls.
Just really, really impressed with the Bath players.....
I also feel for Beno.....however 2 years ago he was out for a whole season and fought his way back to his current excellent form. He is a strong man, in so many ways!
Only issue is that I can't wait until next season!!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: beastieboy (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 20:06
As a fellow Canary, agree about the binners and relegation. Well played yesterday at Twickenham, Bath Boys were absolutely fantastic, such fight right to the end. The atmosphere was unbelievable.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 20:15
Quote:OK, but surely there must be one positive you can offer!OutsideBathQuote:TomReaganQuote:But apart from that OB?OutsideBath
What don’t I like about Twickenham?
Awful location that’s a nightmare to get to by train and even worse to get away from, ripoff seat prices to be seated a long way from the pitch, overpriced rubbish beer, overpriced rubbish food and no reserved for Bath fans ( personally I didn’t want to sit with any Saints fans)
I guess had Bath got the win they thoroughly deserved I might have felt better about going there.
Day out with my wife., 😎👍
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 20:26
I quite like Twickenham. For an adult day out the principality is better, but that's just because it's in the middle of a rugby mar city, you can't just create that.
Otherwise prices are high and the beer is poor everywhere. I suppose you are quite a long way from the pitch, it's never really registered as a problem with me though.
I love the fact that rugby fans can mingle and I've never had any problem.
Otherwise prices are high and the beer is poor everywhere. I suppose you are quite a long way from the pitch, it's never really registered as a problem with me though.
I love the fact that rugby fans can mingle and I've never had any problem.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Francis Allen (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 20:31
4th June 2022 I sat in the stand at Sixways totally dismayed after the 43-27 loss against Worcester putting us bottom.
That day Obano, Stuart, Dunn, Ewels, Coetzee, Spencer, Bailey, Muir, Ojomoh, Cokanasinga, De Glanville and Reid all played. 2 years on we can only be amazed by the change in their fortunes, 9 of those players turned out at Twickenham putting in a performance to be proud of.
Undoubtedly the leadership of JVG with the backing of the team at Farleigh is the reason we can celebrate our return to the good times. Can't wait for next season.
That day Obano, Stuart, Dunn, Ewels, Coetzee, Spencer, Bailey, Muir, Ojomoh, Cokanasinga, De Glanville and Reid all played. 2 years on we can only be amazed by the change in their fortunes, 9 of those players turned out at Twickenham putting in a performance to be proud of.
Undoubtedly the leadership of JVG with the backing of the team at Farleigh is the reason we can celebrate our return to the good times. Can't wait for next season.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Buzzer (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 20:53
Ex wasps supporter who now follows Northampton with great interest. Gutted for Beno and Alfie, obviously. Watched the match late on, after a day out in Portsmouth. What a nail biter of a game! Agree with most of the comments above. Red 100% correct. And Saints were lucky to get the win. Underhill should have been man of the match. Finally, you’re going to do very well next season. And I do like JVG. What a humble guy. And Lawes for the Lions at 6!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Susanne (IP Logged)
Date: 09/06/2024 22:13
Prefer Murrayfield to Twickenham any day but I suppose the likelihood of getting the English premiership final there is pretty low 
Great atmosphere yesterday (if a tad loud for some of us) and wouldn't have missed it for anything
Great atmosphere yesterday (if a tad loud for some of us) and wouldn't have missed it for anything
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 07:40
Chose not to go to HQ for the final for many of the reasons outlined by OB above. I have been going for over 40yr including last year v Quins for our Prem away match. We watched the match in the Ring O' Bells, Widcombe, with many others and had a fab afternoon. No food on mind, but we were able to order in from the deli at The Ram over the road, fab food btw, who delivered it to our table in the packed pub. Spent about £40 on beer and food on the day and walked back along the canal towpath in the sunshine after the match. We have had a great season and improved much more than I could have hoped for in 18mth. JvG has set the bar high and the comments on 'ere suggest nothing less than a play off place/Prem win will suffice next season. I hope we aren't disappointed. Well done all.
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 08:07
Thanks BM. The being off 10 minutes was a suggestion that what it was rather than blood.
All venues have different experiences and for me part of the "charm" of the Cabbage Patch is it's attached to many memories of great days out there. The area is nice enough loads of great pubs that mean you can make a day of it. Easy to get to and the walk just adds to the atmosphere. As others have said being gouged at the stadium and having loud music is just part of the deal.
Tbh the only thing I'd change is how reliant the venue seems on corporate and a certain type of supporter (whose interest in rugby often seems very peripheral) that said that is often far less of an issue at club rather than Country games.
As above the MS is probably my favourite UK big rugby venue although it's change to a stag/hen party venue of choice has also had an impact on the crowd.
Tottenham Stadium so much better than either its not even close BUT outside the stadium not much to do.
All venues have different experiences and for me part of the "charm" of the Cabbage Patch is it's attached to many memories of great days out there. The area is nice enough loads of great pubs that mean you can make a day of it. Easy to get to and the walk just adds to the atmosphere. As others have said being gouged at the stadium and having loud music is just part of the deal.
Tbh the only thing I'd change is how reliant the venue seems on corporate and a certain type of supporter (whose interest in rugby often seems very peripheral) that said that is often far less of an issue at club rather than Country games.
As above the MS is probably my favourite UK big rugby venue although it's change to a stag/hen party venue of choice has also had an impact on the crowd.
Tottenham Stadium so much better than either its not even close BUT outside the stadium not much to do.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 09:02
Isn't the Spurs stadium really difficult to get to by public transport or have they built some shiny new railway lines and stations there?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 09:26
Quote:Dorset Boy
Isn't the Spurs stadium really difficult to get to by public transport or have they built some shiny new railway lines and stations there?
There are four nearby stations and one is 5 mins walk away. It's just a notably less well of area.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Deckchair (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 09:29
Pet gripe of mine that adjudicators always give MOTM to someone from the winning side. George Hendy had a good game, but it was not as fine as the contribution and skills of Sam Underhill or ,indeed, several other Bath players. I would even give to Christopher Ridley over Hendy.
The best and most influential players are not always among the winners.
The best and most influential players are not always among the winners.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 09:38
Quote:Deckchair
Pet gripe of mine that adjudicators always give MOTM to someone from the winning side. George Hendy had a good game, but it was not as fine as the contribution and skills of Sam Underhill or ,indeed, several other Bath players. I would even give to Christopher Ridley over Hendy.
The best and most influential players are not always among the winners.
On the Saints side I think that Furbank, Pearson had good games. Sleightholme took his try well. Agree Hendy wasn't even the best Saints player, let alone the best player in the match.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 09:49
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Deckchair
Pet gripe of mine that adjudicators always give MOTM to someone from the winning side. George Hendy had a good game, but it was not as fine as the contribution and skills of Sam Underhill or ,indeed, several other Bath players. I would even give to Christopher Ridley over Hendy.
The best and most influential players are not always among the winners.
On the Saints side I think that Furbank, Pearson had good games. Sleightholme took his try well. Agree Hendy wasn't even the best Saints player, let alone the best player in the match.
Deckchair, 💯. But TNT doesn’t like interviewing players from the losing side apparently!
My MotM would have been TDT, playing 80 on both sides, but Underhill or Spencer would have been worthy winners.
BattMatt, agree Hendy wasn’t the best Saints player, Furbank or Lawes would have been my choice.
Interestingly I thought Pearson (who I rate) didn’t have a good game, Underhill totally outshine him and will be interesting to see if SB includes Pearson later.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 10:12
Quote:tigersimon
Interestingly I thought Pearson (who I rate) didn’t have a good game, Underhill totally outshine him and will be interesting to see if SB includes Pearson later.
Pearson happened to have a few good runs at my end of the pitch so maybe they were just the ones I could actually see!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 10:37
Quote:Deckchair
Pet gripe of mine that adjudicators always give MOTM to someone from the winning side. George Hendy had a good game, but it was not as fine as the contribution and skills of Sam Underhill or ,indeed, several other Bath players. I would even give to Christopher Ridley over Hendy.
The best and most influential players are not always among the winners.
If I was on the losing side you really wouldn’t want to interview me after the match! Nearly any Bath player could have been named man of the match, but can understand why it’s given to a lesser player on the winning side.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 10:41
I must admit when I have seen the MotM go to a player from the losing side it is rather underwhelming, not that I've seen it often. It might be a fair reflection of the play, but the player doesn't really want it, his fans don't really care, anything they say is rather lacklustre because they're gutted and the award they've been given doesn't help. It's probably better to give the cherry on the top to one of the winners.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 10:45
Yeh, it has to do with the sponsors (i.e. Gallagher) who want a smile at the handshake, a proper interview and some nice photos. Fair enough. Think Stuart Barnes or someone mentioned it on a podcast the other day and how, at Sky, he used to ignore his producer and give the MotM to whoever he saw fit, not just a player from the winning side!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 11:53
Quote:Dorset Boy
Isn't the Spurs stadium really difficult to get to by public transport or have they built some shiny new railway lines and stations there?
Very easy tube from Victoria and then a comfortable 30 minute walk with roads closed off from traffic
Pubs and shops along the way very geared up for big crowds
A delight by comparison to Twickenham
Also bag search at Twickenham gates were so slow
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 12:04
Is it to early to predict next year's top 4? Guna do it anyway.
Bath
Saints
Exeter
Sarries
Bath
Saints
Exeter
Sarries
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 12:18
My take on the game was simply that it was the red card that eventually won it for Saints
I'm not disputing the decision. I think there was an argument for a yellow but red clearly understandable
Up until that moment we were well on top. Saints attack was going nowhere, underlined by the [very good] drop goal from distance. Our aggressive, fast line speed was causing big problems and errors. A more favourable bounce or two and we would have been a score or two up before the red card. Furbank's [I think it was] chase back to tackle Gallagher two metres from the line was perfectly timed. A second earlier and it would have been a pen try for tackle without ball and a second later and Gallagher has momentum to hit the line
Saints worked the space from Beno's absence for their two first half scores but became increasingly desperate as our defence, energy and game management put us back on top. Mitchell's tap pen deep in our 22 underlined that as they continued to make mistakes under pressure
It took another bit of luck in the substitution that brought Hendy on following Russell's crunch tackle on Odendaal. Up until that weaving, elusive run our line didn't appear under threat at all. Fair play to Mitchell to be up in support, he does that very well
Over the 80 minutes we were clearly the better side, even with our two big ball carriers [beno and alfie] off the pitch and most pundits would say we deserved to win. I can't think of one saints player who clearly outperformed his BBW counterpart. To all the Bath top players named I would add Hill and Ewels. Both were quietly immense
The Cmon You Bath noise was brilliant and on 70 minutes there was a real belief matched by the quiet anxiety of Saints supporters at least in the East/North area where we were
But then, that's sport. We will be stronger for it and I certainly will be booking final tickets early again
One final thought and the banter between bath and saints fans was top banana and made for a great atmosphere before and after. An absolute credit to two great clubs
I'm not disputing the decision. I think there was an argument for a yellow but red clearly understandable
Up until that moment we were well on top. Saints attack was going nowhere, underlined by the [very good] drop goal from distance. Our aggressive, fast line speed was causing big problems and errors. A more favourable bounce or two and we would have been a score or two up before the red card. Furbank's [I think it was] chase back to tackle Gallagher two metres from the line was perfectly timed. A second earlier and it would have been a pen try for tackle without ball and a second later and Gallagher has momentum to hit the line
Saints worked the space from Beno's absence for their two first half scores but became increasingly desperate as our defence, energy and game management put us back on top. Mitchell's tap pen deep in our 22 underlined that as they continued to make mistakes under pressure
It took another bit of luck in the substitution that brought Hendy on following Russell's crunch tackle on Odendaal. Up until that weaving, elusive run our line didn't appear under threat at all. Fair play to Mitchell to be up in support, he does that very well
Over the 80 minutes we were clearly the better side, even with our two big ball carriers [beno and alfie] off the pitch and most pundits would say we deserved to win. I can't think of one saints player who clearly outperformed his BBW counterpart. To all the Bath top players named I would add Hill and Ewels. Both were quietly immense
The Cmon You Bath noise was brilliant and on 70 minutes there was a real belief matched by the quiet anxiety of Saints supporters at least in the East/North area where we were
But then, that's sport. We will be stronger for it and I certainly will be booking final tickets early again
One final thought and the banter between bath and saints fans was top banana and made for a great atmosphere before and after. An absolute credit to two great clubs
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 12:18
Quote:Saint dolph
Is it to early to predict next year's top 4? Guna do it anyway.
Bath
Saints
Exeter
Sarries
I think that Quins will be back in top 4 (probably instead of Exe, next season a bit early for their kids).
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 12:45
Quote:gaz59Quote:Dorset Boy
Isn't the Spurs stadium really difficult to get to by public transport or have they built some shiny new railway lines and stations there?
Very easy tube from Victoria and then a comfortable 30 minute walk with roads closed off from traffic
Pubs and shops along the way very geared up for big crowds
A delight by comparison to Twickenham
Also bag search at Twickenham gates were so slow
I'll accept that tube trains are more frequent, but can't see how a 30 minute walk is better than a 10/15 minute one. Likewise loads of pubs around Twickenham geared up for the crowds.
I lived in Stamford Hill many moons ago and went to White Hart Lane a number of times and it was a horrible long walk home with no chance of using public transport. The walk to Seven Sisters was way further than Twickenham stadium to station.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 13:07
Trains from Clapham Junction to Twickenham were absolutely rammed
Thankfully we decided on Isleworth and the Royal Oak. Poor staffing at busy bar but that probably kept the beer tally reasonable
Thankfully we decided on Isleworth and the Royal Oak. Poor staffing at busy bar but that probably kept the beer tally reasonable
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 13:07
Quote:Dorset Boy
I'll accept that tube trains are more frequent, but can't see how a 30 minute walk is better than a 10/15 minute one.
There is White Hart Lane overground very close to the stadium. Otherwise I guess tube is same distance as Twickenham to Richmond?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 13:49
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Saint dolph
Is it to early to predict next year's top 4? Guna do it anyway.
Bath
Saints
Exeter
Sarries
I think that Quins will be back in top 4 (probably instead of Exe, next season a bit early for their kids).
Would be happy with that top 4!
Have a horrible feeling leicester could be strong again next season with mckellar in his second season.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 13:54
We stayed at Chertsey Campsite in the camper van and took an Uber in and on the return. Between 4 of us it was about the same price as the train
Widcombe Garçon
Widcombe Garçon
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 13:57
Quote:Charlieboa1Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Saint dolph
Is it to early to predict next year's top 4? Guna do it anyway.
Bath
Saints
Exeter
Sarries
I think that Quins will be back in top 4 (probably instead of Exe, next season a bit early for their kids).
Would be happy with that top 4!
Have a horrible feeling leicester could be strong again next season with mckellar in his second season.
I'm already saying it's guna be a bath saints final again.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 13:58
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Dorset Boy
I'll accept that tube trains are more frequent, but can't see how a 30 minute walk is better than a 10/15 minute one.
There is White Hart Lane overground very close to the stadium. Otherwise I guess tube is same distance as Twickenham to Richmond?
White Hart Lane is 5 mins
Northumberland Park is 15 mins
Tottenham Hale is 25 mins
Seven Sisters is 30 mins
There are multiple lines and options (plus buses etc). Twickenham (with a larger capacity) has shuttle buses to Richmond and Hounslow East. Wembley has multiple stadiums but is also annoying.
Compared to Bath or Cardiff every walk is a pain.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 14:06
I've heard some really good things about Tottenham stadium, not surprising really, its a new and expensive stadium, it cost £1billion all in apparently.
It seems a bit of an unfair touch stone to hold Twickenham to, but it seems to compare ok. I don't recall that bad an experience going there and really the complaints are either: nit-picking or just the sort of thing you get when you try and get 80k people into a small area. I can't say I'd rather the RFU were in Tottenham's position: lovely stadium, £700m of debt.
It seems a bit of an unfair touch stone to hold Twickenham to, but it seems to compare ok. I don't recall that bad an experience going there and really the complaints are either: nit-picking or just the sort of thing you get when you try and get 80k people into a small area. I can't say I'd rather the RFU were in Tottenham's position: lovely stadium, £700m of debt.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 15:03
Quote:I have a Spurs season ticket holder colleague and he complains it's a nightmare to get away from. Could just be a crowd control issue thoughDan Wiley
I've heard some really good things about Tottenham stadium, not surprising really, its a new and expensive stadium, it cost £1billion all in apparently.
It seems a bit of an unfair touch stone to hold Twickenham to, but it seems to compare ok. I don't recall that bad an experience going there and really the complaints are either: nit-picking or just the sort of thing you get when you try and get 80k people into a small area. I can't say I'd rather the RFU were in Tottenham's position: lovely stadium, £700m of debt.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:10:15:04:15 by A.M 180.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 15:24
In fairness I have sympathy, getting 10s of thousands of people away from a place that's used for it at most every couple of weeks is always going to be tricky.
I really enjoy the Principality, but I'm not sure where the idea that coming and going on a train is a particularly positive experience? I have had ok experiences, as I have at Twickenham, I've also queued for an hour in the rain before getting on a rammed train and quite a bit earlier than I wanted to as it was one of the last ones.
It's just the nature of the thing.
I really enjoy the Principality, but I'm not sure where the idea that coming and going on a train is a particularly positive experience? I have had ok experiences, as I have at Twickenham, I've also queued for an hour in the rain before getting on a rammed train and quite a bit earlier than I wanted to as it was one of the last ones.
It's just the nature of the thing.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 15:47
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Dorset Boy
I'll accept that tube trains are more frequent, but can't see how a 30 minute walk is better than a 10/15 minute one.
There is White Hart Lane overground very close to the stadium. Otherwise I guess tube is same distance as Twickenham to Richmond?
That’s where I go if I have the car. Park North if WHL and overland in. Dead easy.
What WHL lacks in pubs outside the ground (there is a great Beaverton pub right opposite) it makes up inside. Masses of space and chock full of bars and eateries.
J
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 16:31
The walk from 7S up to the Tottenham Stadium is great on an NFL game day if you’re able to walk it. A brilliant vibe that builds as you get closer and more is closed off for pedestrians. Everything feels well managed (as is Twix tbf) and there’s plenty of places to stop and refresh at on the way. The stadium itself is a far better experience as is to be expected.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: NGSB (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 20:26
If we can win a final when not at our best then we’ll take it even if we have to readily acknowledge that Bath gave us a hell of a game which went down to the last play. Looking at the game on TV today ( Monday ) I actually thought Saints played better than it felt at the time. Our three tries were top drawer but the overall level of performance was below that of your guys which Courtney readily admitted to after the game. It’s never pleasant to lose a man to a red card and experience shows that it’s far from a given that it is a game changing event; the dynamic changes but not always in favour of the side with fifteen as thankfully we discovered at Thomond Park earlier in the season when Curtis Langdon was dismissed.
Hopefully both sides will be strong again next season though we are going to be losing a lot of experience in the pack with the loss of Lawes, Moon, Ludlam and Waller. An interesting season lies ahead of us all come September.
Hopefully both sides will be strong again next season though we are going to be losing a lot of experience in the pack with the loss of Lawes, Moon, Ludlam and Waller. An interesting season lies ahead of us all come September.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 21:24
I thought I heard it mentioned after the game in the media that only 4 premiership matches have been won by a side with a player sent off.
Now I'm sure that needs further clarification, so it may apply to straight reds, or red cards issued in the first half.
Annoyingly, Google doesn't help with finding out whether or not it is correct or what the actual criteria is.
Now I'm sure that needs further clarification, so it may apply to straight reds, or red cards issued in the first half.
Annoyingly, Google doesn't help with finding out whether or not it is correct or what the actual criteria is.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 21:31
Vaguely recall on the day we beat Oz in the WC final we beat Quins after having Michael Lipman sent off quite early on. If it transpires I've sort of blended memories from different games I won't be surprised!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 21:58
Your memory is accurate Tom.
PG
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 22:03
Didn't we also win at Welford Road 2 weeks later when Higgins was sent off?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Francis Allen (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 22:54
I love travelling by train to away Premiership games and international games plus the odd Premier football game in London and somehow all the really bad experiences involve Twickenham. After one friday evening England game someone fell on the track, all trains cancelled so a bus to Staines where we were told we could get to Reading, that was a lie so took the last train to Windsor then taxi to Reading, too late for anything west so stayed in a Travelodge. This was the last straw so now only go to Twickenham by car. Travel to any away game can often be a challenge. Got plane to Newcastle in 22/23, didn't want to stay overnight so got a midnight National Express arrived home 10am next morning, plane and coach came to £38 !
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 23:10
Quote:Only in this instance PGT, but thanks! The game stands out because I was living in Briz at the time and missed the final to get the train over. It was a funny season with a few gaps in personnel filled by players on short contracts but we just kept on winning.P G Tips
Your memory is accurate Tom.
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 10/06/2024 23:21
That’s some commitment Francis , Chapeau!!
(quote Francis Allen]I love travelling by train to away Premiership games and international games plus the odd Premier football game in London and somehow all the really bad experiences involve Twickenham. After one friday evening England game someone fell on the track, all trains cancelled so a bus to Staines where we were told we could get to Reading, that was a lie so took the last train to Windsor then taxi to Reading, too late for anything west so stayed in a Travelodge. This was the last straw so now only go to Twickenham by car. Travel to any away game can often be a challenge. Got plane to Newcastle in 22/23, didn't want to stay overnight so got a midnight National Express arrived home 10am next morning, plane and coach came to £38 ![/quote]
Widcombe Garçon
(quote Francis Allen]I love travelling by train to away Premiership games and international games plus the odd Premier football game in London and somehow all the really bad experiences involve Twickenham. After one friday evening England game someone fell on the track, all trains cancelled so a bus to Staines where we were told we could get to Reading, that was a lie so took the last train to Windsor then taxi to Reading, too late for anything west so stayed in a Travelodge. This was the last straw so now only go to Twickenham by car. Travel to any away game can often be a challenge. Got plane to Newcastle in 22/23, didn't want to stay overnight so got a midnight National Express arrived home 10am next morning, plane and coach came to £38 ![/quote]
Widcombe Garçon
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 00:23
Quote:TomReagan
Vaguely recall on the day we beat Oz in the WC final we beat Quins after having Michael Lipman sent off quite early on. If it transpires I've sort of blended memories from different games I won't be surprised!
[en.espn.co.uk]
I remember it... not well. I was very drunk, my friends and I paid minimal attention to the game and a lot more to the lacrosse team sat next to us and we all pretty much fell asleep in Pizza Hut at about 6pm.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 00:53
Cheers for the link hasta. A stronger team than I recall. Some great names on both sides that I'd forgotten.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 01:25
Quote:NGSB
Hopefully both sides will be strong again next season though we are going to be losing a lot of experience in the pack with the loss of Lawes, Moon, Ludlam and Waller. An interesting season lies ahead of us all come September.
With respect NGSB, you’ve now won the title twice in the professional era & on this occasion you finished the regular season equal on points with us & by your own admission were fortunate to win the final. We haven’t done so at all. From our point of view it is imperative that we address this & consequently you being strong again next season is not topmost in our thoughts!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:11:01:26:29 by Bath Hammer.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 01:36
Quote:Saint dolph
Is it to early to predict next year's top 4? Guna do it anyway.
Bath
Saints
Exeter
Sarries
All I know is that we had an excellent chance to win the title this year even with 14 men. We do have a strong team but others may well be stronger next season & we may be less fortunate with injuries. Just because we may feel we were unlucky not to win this season means absolutely nothing. We may have squandered our best chance to get to the final & win. Remember how close we were not to beat Sale in the semi final.. I feel no more confident of doing so next season than I would if I supported 6-8 other teams!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 01:57
Furthermore, I believe Bristol have as good a chance of winning the title next season as we have.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 07:32
Quote:Bath Hammer
Furthermore, I believe Bristol have as good a chance of winning the title next season as we have.
My Briz supporting brothers are of the same opinion. And, if Briz continue with Max Malins at 10, I might agree, too. But I think Briz are too reliant on emotion and vibes to be Champs. Eventually they'll run into Salaries or the Tigs and get nullified. They don't have a Plan B when that happens, just Plan A turned up to 11.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:11:07:34:06 by joethefanatic.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 07:51
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Saint dolph
Is it to early to predict next year's top 4? Guna do it anyway.
Bath
Saints
Exeter
Sarries
All I know is that we had an excellent chance to win the title this year even with 14 men. We do have a strong team but others may well be stronger next season & we may be less fortunate with injuries. Just because we may feel we were unlucky not to win this season means absolutely nothing. We may have squandered our best chance to get to the final & win. Remember how close we were not to beat Sale in the semi final.. I feel no more
confident of doing so next season than I would if I supported 6-8 other teams!
You could be right who knows ay. Gloucester could top the league for all we know. I just feel out of all the teams bath should be favourites with your squad . With Spencer and Russell together another year that is huge behind a very very good pack. With Spencer and Russell both 31 I feel needs to happen next year or one after . Bristol as saints are very aware can put anyone away in style I just feel they still would not challenge the title. I think they will do well but finish middle of the pack .
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 07:53
With the league bring so close, I would say there’s almost zero chance of a repeat final. It could easily be the case that either Bath or Saints don’t make top 4.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 08:23
Boring and depressing piece of post final admin-
Is Beno facing something like a standard ban of 6 weeks reduced (good recoed) to 3 reduced (tackle school) to 2? Would this be the first few weeks of the Prem season or do friendlies etc count?
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Is Beno facing something like a standard ban of 6 weeks reduced (good recoed) to 3 reduced (tackle school) to 2? Would this be the first few weeks of the Prem season or do friendlies etc count?
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 08:42
Friendlies do count. I wonder if Internationals do too if Borthwick says he would have toured? If so the small positive is it may have little if any impact on Bath.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 08:43
Quote:dr.bath1865
Boring and depressing piece of post final admin-
Is Beno facing something like a standard ban of 6 weeks reduced (good recoed) to 3 reduced (tackle school) to 2? Would this be the first few weeks of the Prem season or do friendlies etc count?
Regulation 19.11.17 would appear to suggest that friendlies wouldn't count unless they met all of the following criteria:
(D) iii. where the Match is not part of a tournament, tour or Series of Matches
which has been sanctioned in accordance with RFU Regulation 10, the
Match:
(i) is to be played between teams of equivalent level (for
example, similar divisions or standards of play) and who play at
the same or an equivalent level of the Game to the Player’s
ordinary level;
(ii) is to feature the best players available to each team;
(iii) is to be played at a venue of the capacity and
characteristics ordinarily used by teams of this level or standard;
(iv) is to be open to the public (and in the case of a Match
involving professional teams, tickets will be sold);
(v) is scheduled within 4 weeks prior to the start of a Season
an International Match, tournament, tour or Series of Matches
which has been sanctioned in accordance with RFU Regulation
10;
Also:
(f) must, if a Player/person's suspension has not terminated by the end of the
current playing season, continue the suspension until a stated date in the next
playing season, unless the Player/person has been selected for a closed season
match and/or tour that complies with Regulation 19.11.16/17, or has made plans
to play during the close of season in another Union. In this event (and subject
to the Disciplinary Panel receiving satisfactory verification of such tour or
playing arrangements), the match, period of the tour or the fact that the
Player/person intends to play in another Union shall be taken into account in
determining when the suspension shall come to an end;
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:11:08:44:15 by BathMatt53.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 09:13
Very late to the post-mortem party, but - what a day out, what a game of rugby. My absolute favourite sport - to participate in or watch - is when the result is in play up until the point the final whistle blows. For anyone saying the red card spoiled the game - it was just a brilliant game of rugby, so it self-evidently didn't.
My only observation on Bath as a potential championship-winning side is that we lack outright gas amongst the back 3. Maybe Harris, Grace, Offiah can help solve that - but there were 2 or 3 turnovers on Saturday that were screaming out for it.
My only observation on Bath as a potential championship-winning side is that we lack outright gas amongst the back 3. Maybe Harris, Grace, Offiah can help solve that - but there were 2 or 3 turnovers on Saturday that were screaming out for it.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 09:44
Quote:Optimist
My only observation on Bath as a potential championship-winning side is that we lack outright gas amongst the back 3. Maybe Harris, Grace, Offiah can help solve that - but there were 2 or 3 turnovers on Saturday that were screaming out for it.
Agreed.
Add Charlie Griffin and Austin Emens to that list?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 10:02
Quote:Opti
For anyone saying the red card spoiled the game - it was just a brilliant game of rugby, so it self-evidently didn't.
I don't think this is what I mean when saying "red cards spoil matches." Sure a red card for New Zealand if they were playing Bath could make it a really interesting game where otherwise I'd expect it to be rather one sided, it could well be said to have improved the game. In terms of what the final is and what it represents, we'll never know if we could have been the Champions and Saints will never really know if they could have beaten 15. For me that is a spoilt concept.
The red card didn't spoil the game, but it fundamentally changed it nature.
That's the really frustrating thing here, on another day Saints get that card , we don't and there's a different name on the trophy. What's the difference between that day and Saturday? Coaching, players, a great decision or bit of play? Nope. Luck. We might as well pick an arbitrary point in the game, roll a dice, if its even we lose a player, if its odd they do.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 10:12
I kind of agree Dan but the bounce of the ball for the Sleightholme try was luck… as was the one for Muir’s. I am perfectly happy with jvg’s explanation that as per the rules it’s a red, so it wasn’t really luck, as Beno should bend more, like Underhill does in every tackle. But agree it’s very unlucky.
However you can’t remove luck from the game and the subsequent outcome of a final - which is why I guess it’s a good thing that the team that have been best over 20 rounds won out in the end.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
However you can’t remove luck from the game and the subsequent outcome of a final - which is why I guess it’s a good thing that the team that have been best over 20 rounds won out in the end.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 10:33
Interesting BM. I'm pretty sure we've had one of Ashtons bans in the past reduced by pre-season games which didn't fall into at least one of those categories and I'm pretty sure Leinser got a bit if stick some seasons ago for arranging a midweek friendly to coubt against a Sexton ban so he could return for an ERCC game!
Re the red. We can't assume events would be linear with one factor changing.
Saints scored fairly easily (with a bit of fortune for one) against 15 but lost the plot v 14. Who knows, maybe it stays 15 v 15 and Saints put 50 on Bath! 😉
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:11:10:39:07 by OldMarovian.
Re the red. We can't assume events would be linear with one factor changing.
Saints scored fairly easily (with a bit of fortune for one) against 15 but lost the plot v 14. Who knows, maybe it stays 15 v 15 and Saints put 50 on Bath! 😉
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:11:10:39:07 by OldMarovian.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 10:44
Quote:OldMarovian
Interesting BM. I'm pretty sure we've had one of Ashtons bans in the past reduced by pre-season games which didn't fall into at least one of those categories and I'm pretty sure Leinser got a bit if stick some seasons ago for arranging a midweek friendly to coubt against a Sexton ban so he could return for an ERCC game!
Re the red. We can't assume events would be linear with one factor changing.
Saints scored fairly easily (with a bit of fortune for one) against 15 but lost the plot v 14. Who knows, maybe it stays 15 v 15 and Saints put 50 on Bath! 😉
Pretty sure that Saints didn't score a try when we had 15 on the pitch. They scored 2 in 7 minutes after the red, and one in the second half to pinch the game.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: fanindevon (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 10:48
Just a PS from Saturday. I watched the coverage on ITV, what a pleasure to listen to Miles Harrison's enthusiastic, articulate and exciting commentary and what a delight NOT to have to listen to the biased ramblings and pontification of Austin Healey.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 11:21
Quote:OldMarovian
Interesting BM. I'm pretty sure we've had one of Ashtons bans in the past reduced by pre-season games which didn't fall into at least one of those categories and I'm pretty sure Leinser got a bit if stick some seasons ago for arranging a midweek friendly to coubt against a Sexton ban so he could return for an ERCC game!
The discilinary hearing report should explicitly list the 'meaningful' games that will be included in the ban (they normally do).
The debate comes where players may not have even played, remember Farrell's ban when he wasn't going to play the Bristol game anyway...
[www.theguardian.com]
At least that game would have met the criteria (as a Prem match). I suspect a pre-season run out with 30 players against a Champs team wouldn't.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 11:40
But early season Prem Cup games would.
Plus -it may be argued given recent history- the 3 summer tour internationals.
He would have been a strong candidate if not for the card.
PG
Plus -it may be argued given recent history- the 3 summer tour internationals.
He would have been a strong candidate if not for the card.
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 11:47
It's luck for me as there's no way you could have predicted who was going to get that card. Honestly, had I said before the game "name N players from either side likely to get a red for head contact" I suspect it would be pretty even between Saints and Bath and I really couldn't say whether many of you would mention Beno? I think probably not depending on how big N is.
Yes, luck is a big part of the game. But I don't think we want to unnecessarily add to it? As I say, we could put some really random stuff in there if we think it adds to the game, but I'd guess most of us would find it pretty unsatisfactory. Even when we lose by an unavoidable bounce of the ball, exciting though it might be, you have to say it feels bit unjust? You wouldn't choose to have that effect the result.
My BIG problem is because these cards are almost entirely down to chance, both teams will be coaching the same tackle techniques and selection (or similar at least), which involve tackles that have a chance of this sort of collision, these red cards have no hope of working. There's a prisoners dilemma on high tackles which leads to all teams keeping high tackles in their options, if you change without everyone else changing, you lose out.
Does anyone want to keep these cards in the game if it could be made safe? Let's say someone DOES invent a scrum cap that can all but eliminate head injury, would you still say "yeah, but I like someone randomly getting sent off, adds to the spice, let's keep them." Unless you say "yes" to that I think the "they don't ruin games" argument is over. The question is then "is it worth ruining games?"
Yes, luck is a big part of the game. But I don't think we want to unnecessarily add to it? As I say, we could put some really random stuff in there if we think it adds to the game, but I'd guess most of us would find it pretty unsatisfactory. Even when we lose by an unavoidable bounce of the ball, exciting though it might be, you have to say it feels bit unjust? You wouldn't choose to have that effect the result.
My BIG problem is because these cards are almost entirely down to chance, both teams will be coaching the same tackle techniques and selection (or similar at least), which involve tackles that have a chance of this sort of collision, these red cards have no hope of working. There's a prisoners dilemma on high tackles which leads to all teams keeping high tackles in their options, if you change without everyone else changing, you lose out.
Does anyone want to keep these cards in the game if it could be made safe? Let's say someone DOES invent a scrum cap that can all but eliminate head injury, would you still say "yeah, but I like someone randomly getting sent off, adds to the spice, let's keep them." Unless you say "yes" to that I think the "they don't ruin games" argument is over. The question is then "is it worth ruining games?"
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 12:02
Quote:Dorset BoyQuote:OldMarovian
Interesting BM. I'm pretty sure we've had one of Ashtons bans in the past reduced by pre-season games which didn't fall into at least one of those categories and I'm pretty sure Leinser got a bit if stick some seasons ago for arranging a midweek friendly to coubt against a Sexton ban so he could return for an ERCC game!
Re the red. We can't assume events would be linear with one factor changing.
Saints scored fairly easily (with a bit of fortune for one) against 15 but lost the plot v 14. Who knows, maybe it stays 15 v 15 and Saints put 50 on Bath! 😉
Pretty sure that Saints didn't score a try when we had 15 on the pitch. They scored 2 in 7 minutes after the red, and one in the second half to pinch the game.
Yep, they only scored a drop goal up until the red card. Up until then their attack was effectively nullified by our cohesive, fast line speed in defence. Our line was never under any threat. This was underlined by Fin Smith taking the 3 point DG from distance. A quality decision and a quality execution but for me sit imply says that without that red card Bath almost certainly would have won
Opti is right that the card didn't ruin the match but it sure did significantly affect the outcome
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 12:02
I kind of see what you're saying Dan but if we use Obanos as an example the reality is if he does everything the same except drive flat rather than low to high that is at worst likely yellow so for me it's a very controllable "random" event. I still feel sorry for him but feel the card probably worked like it should do in this instance. Do you think next time he makes a similar tackle he will be focusing on not repeating that failure of technique?
Tbf maybe he won't? Maybe winning the collision is being so drilled into him that is what matters most? Farrell would be an example of that. Everyone knew his tackling was an issue but the fact that it largely didn't change would suggest that coaches were largely in favour of it. That said after his last card his technique changed considerably. Now whether that's due to "tackle school" 🙄 or because he/coaches have decided the risk/reward is no longer there it does suggest though that he's always had the ability to change it (although I suspect in a high pressure incident he would revert to the mean!) but that such technique is if not taught then condoned in "winning" the gainline.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:11:13:21:35 by OldMarovian.
Tbf maybe he won't? Maybe winning the collision is being so drilled into him that is what matters most? Farrell would be an example of that. Everyone knew his tackling was an issue but the fact that it largely didn't change would suggest that coaches were largely in favour of it. That said after his last card his technique changed considerably. Now whether that's due to "tackle school" 🙄 or because he/coaches have decided the risk/reward is no longer there it does suggest though that he's always had the ability to change it (although I suspect in a high pressure incident he would revert to the mean!) but that such technique is if not taught then condoned in "winning" the gainline.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:11:13:21:35 by OldMarovian.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 13:02
Quote:OM
Fo you think next time he makes a similar tackle he will ge focusing on not repeating that failure of technique?
No, I think he's been coached to make almost exactly that tackle in that situation and will do it again or he risks losing his place in the team (ok extreme, but it may affect selection if he's getting his tackle choice wrong).
As you mention Farrell, but I don't think you need focus on one player, there's plenty of tackles like that one where the dynamics if the situation are slightly different and head contact just happens not to occur. In fact the no-head-contact case is probably significantly more common.
On review, I do think that Beno is REALLY unlucky not to get that mitigated. S8 is low and coming down. If S8 doesn't drop late like that it's a legal tackle without Beno changing anything. So no, I really don't think he'd change much knowing what he knew a faction of a second before the contact. But this is definitely a tackle that you'll see 10 times in a game. I'm picking a random number there but it could easily be more. I'm really hoping we get a change in the (pro) laws in this area.
[www.youtube.com]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 13:49
Quote:dr.bath1865
I - which is why I guess it’s a good thing that the team that have been best over 20 rounds won out in the end.
……just on points difference
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BeatsWorking (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 13:51
Some interesting calls here
[www.theguardian.com]
Not sure that Barbeary quite deserves to be there (yet), and I don't know too much about Billy Sela. Great to see Spencer and Blackett get the recognition though 👏
[www.theguardian.com]
Not sure that Barbeary quite deserves to be there (yet), and I don't know too much about Billy Sela. Great to see Spencer and Blackett get the recognition though 👏
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 14:03
Quote:Dan WileyQuote:OM
Fo you think next time he makes a similar tackle he will ge focusing on not repeating that failure of technique?
I'm really hoping we get a change in the (pro) laws in this area.
[www.youtube.com]
I think the game has painted itself into a corner over this issue, resulting in 2 challenges to changes to the tackle law.
1. Referees do not want to decide on "fault" which will make it hard to frame a law for accidental but dangerous tackles.
2. IMO the focus on the tackle, while important, is addressing symptom not cause. The number of collisions per game is estimated to be 2.5-3 times what it was 20 years ago. That sort of proportion cannot be explained by increased size and fitness because the proportions are starkly different. So the authorities need to identify which laws changes have resulted in the increased number of collisions (these I believe are also behind the higher incidence of upright collisions - as you say: "there's plenty of tackles like that one") and decide how to amend or rescind those changes to make the game safer.
In other words, to make the game safer in terms of head contact risk requires radical change - in referee responsibility, in laws of the game and consequently how players play it.
Have World Rugby the appetite for that?
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 14:18
On 1 I agree. They want to make everything black and white.
I think 2 is a fair point not to be lost. How much of this increase is just down to fitness though? I think that's got to be a factor. Players are getting up and making a lot more hits, its a natural product of a high paced game and, by and large, we want to see a high paced game. My view is the breakdown is the place to explore here:
- making a maul an attacking weapon that requires defenders to be sucked in to stop, allowing more space.
- making the ruck require more than 1/2 players "going off their feet" to secure or to jackal.
The latter is really there in the laws already. Players have to attempt to stay on their feet, player can't have their shoulders below their hips. The maul feels like its balance, how to make it more powerful mid-field without making it unstoppable short range?
I think 2 is a fair point not to be lost. How much of this increase is just down to fitness though? I think that's got to be a factor. Players are getting up and making a lot more hits, its a natural product of a high paced game and, by and large, we want to see a high paced game. My view is the breakdown is the place to explore here:
- making a maul an attacking weapon that requires defenders to be sucked in to stop, allowing more space.
- making the ruck require more than 1/2 players "going off their feet" to secure or to jackal.
The latter is really there in the laws already. Players have to attempt to stay on their feet, player can't have their shoulders below their hips. The maul feels like its balance, how to make it more powerful mid-field without making it unstoppable short range?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Saint dolph (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 14:30
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:dr.bath1865
I - which is why I guess it’s a good thing that the team that have been best over 20 rounds won out in the end.
……just on points difference
Games won
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 14:30
I think we are in similar territory Dan.
I would go a bit further on the ruck - going off feet to be penalised and diving in to be classed as dangerous play. Further, I would ban hands in the ruck except placement by the tackled player. Let players drive over and push opponents back as they used to in rucking. That forces more opponents to commit and offers natural regulation of offside.
Both should create more space so improve the fast paced game with opportunities to run into space and find supporting team mates also running into space.
PG
I would go a bit further on the ruck - going off feet to be penalised and diving in to be classed as dangerous play. Further, I would ban hands in the ruck except placement by the tackled player. Let players drive over and push opponents back as they used to in rucking. That forces more opponents to commit and offers natural regulation of offside.
Both should create more space so improve the fast paced game with opportunities to run into space and find supporting team mates also running into space.
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: OldMarovian (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 14:47
Quote:BeatsWorking
Some interesting calls here
[www.theguardian.com]
Not sure that Barbeary quite deserves to be there (yet), and I don't know too much about Billy Sela. Great to see Spencer and Blackett get the recognition though 👏
As you say Barbeary is a bizarre choice.
I think if he stays fit for the season Quirke at Sale will be one to watch. Potentially Burke for Sarries too although that might be from between fingers, behind a sofa and not in a good way 🤔
It's obviously beneficial to be called Lee if you want recognition as a coach!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 15:04
To be fair "watchable" is a subjective point -personal maybe. He's not claiming Alfie as one of the best 3 players.
PG
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 15:09
I'm with DW on the red card. It influences the match, regardless of whether it decides the outcome. In many ways I suspect Saints didn't benefit. The pressure was on them anyway as favourites, having come top of the league and saying goodbye to several stalwarts. Once we're down to 14 that pressure on Saints to win increases. For Bath the reverse is true. They can play a very limited, spoiling game, stay in the fight and see where it gets them, and that's what happened. For all the pantomime reactions to seeing foul play on the big screen I think most fans want to see 15 v 15, or the result is somewhat devalued, and losing a player should just be reserved for deliberate acts of thuggery, not the sort of incident that occurred Saturday, accepting that such a change still requires interpretation as to what's dangerous but careless and what's calculated.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 15:18
PG, just to understand what you're suggesting, the scenario is something like:
1) Carrier (C) tackled (open play)
2) Tackler releases (open play)
3) C places the ball (open play)
4) Player from either team (probably a defender though, D) tries to play the ball, gets his hands on it (open play)
5) Opposition player (O) attempts to clear out, contact over the ball so (ruck)
What happens at 4 is the tricky part.
After 5 no player bound to the ruck can touch the ball, even D must release the ball at 5 and let it come?
Or
D cannot play the ball at 4 and must clear out? Essentially open play finishes at the tackle.
For the former I think you'd have to be stricter on allowing the tackled player to place the ball and consequently you could be stricter on that player holding on. What we have now is basically players being allowed to hold on providing a support player gets there pretty quickly, with "pretty quickly" varying from ref to ref or even breakdown to breakdown.
There's a lot here where the coaching of the pro game and the laws have diverged.
1) Carrier (C) tackled (open play)
2) Tackler releases (open play)
3) C places the ball (open play)
4) Player from either team (probably a defender though, D) tries to play the ball, gets his hands on it (open play)
5) Opposition player (O) attempts to clear out, contact over the ball so (ruck)
What happens at 4 is the tricky part.
After 5 no player bound to the ruck can touch the ball, even D must release the ball at 5 and let it come?
Or
D cannot play the ball at 4 and must clear out? Essentially open play finishes at the tackle.
For the former I think you'd have to be stricter on allowing the tackled player to place the ball and consequently you could be stricter on that player holding on. What we have now is basically players being allowed to hold on providing a support player gets there pretty quickly, with "pretty quickly" varying from ref to ref or even breakdown to breakdown.
There's a lot here where the coaching of the pro game and the laws have diverged.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 15:36
Quote:TomRegan
accepting that such a change still requires interpretation as to what's dangerous but careless and what's calculated.
I think the key here is deciding who has created the dangerous situation. The assumption we currently have is its always the tackler, there's also an element of it's fine to put yourself in danger. I think both need to change, players need to tackle, if they are in a reasonable place to make a tackle then the onuses is potentially equally on the tackle to keep themselves safe by not putting their head in a place where a tackler can reasonably put their shoulder (or head or whatever).
Looking at this case though doesn't help me, neither player is doing much that is unreasonable, but I would say that Beno's stance is fairly nominal for a tackler and S8 is coming down into his space so maybe the answer is you have to keep the carrier higher and you penalise him in this instance. I suppose if you introduce a sternum height tackle then maybe Beno wasn't in a decent place to tackle and so should be penalised. Here's the important part of that though, that means that tackle technique ALWAYS leads to a penalty, not 1 time in 20 a red, as a result it comes out of the coach's play book. What's the point in coaching a tackle that never brings an advantage? There clearly is an advantage in coaching tackling technique that only sometimes leads to a red (and as I say, is equally likely to result in your opposition getting a red).
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 16:10
Sorry Dan
Let me clarify.
At 3) I would require C to place the ball -immediately
At 4) I would require players initially to play the ball with the foot (as used to be the case).So- as you say "D cannot play the ball (with the hand) at 4 and must clear out". Once the ball has been won at the ruck it could be picked up by 9 or any other player.
This would put an end to the jackal - who is himself exposed and vulnerable - and set the conditions for dynamic rucking which concentrates numbers and force around the ball.
A forward moving ruck is dynamic and forces the defence to stay onside so also developing space between team in possession and defenders so limiting the risk of upright collision.
PG
Let me clarify.
At 3) I would require C to place the ball -immediately
At 4) I would require players initially to play the ball with the foot (as used to be the case).So- as you say "D cannot play the ball (with the hand) at 4 and must clear out". Once the ball has been won at the ruck it could be picked up by 9 or any other player.
This would put an end to the jackal - who is himself exposed and vulnerable - and set the conditions for dynamic rucking which concentrates numbers and force around the ball.
A forward moving ruck is dynamic and forces the defence to stay onside so also developing space between team in possession and defenders so limiting the risk of upright collision.
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 16:26
I'm trying to decide if you ever really get the situation where the first player arriving at the ruck is the only player nearby, and so it would look a little odd him winning a ruck against no one. You'd rather he got a pop from the floor or just picked and went.
We seem to be invent laws to protect jacklers: can't croc-roll, can't attack the legs, but they are always in a fundamentally dangerous position just because of where their heads and neck end up. Regardless of whether it would improve the game, I think it would, I think they have to go.
We seem to be invent laws to protect jacklers: can't croc-roll, can't attack the legs, but they are always in a fundamentally dangerous position just because of where their heads and neck end up. Regardless of whether it would improve the game, I think it would, I think they have to go.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 16:31
The pop you mention could be in the act of falling, but not once he has hit the ground.
I agree - the jackal is in itself a danger position. Almost any form of clearout on him is risky too for one or other party.
PG
I agree - the jackal is in itself a danger position. Almost any form of clearout on him is risky too for one or other party.
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 16:58
Im really confused! A ruck is formed when at least one player from each team are in contact, on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground. So being the only one at a ruck means you aren’t in a ruck?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 17:00
One last thought- Whilst I thought the officials were good on Saturday- yes they have missed some contentious decisions but on the whole spot on and particularly the red card - my only concern is that high degree of danger - I wouldn’t argue except Augustus felt no ill harm and did not even leave the field for an HIA or check up surely that should have some influence on the danger element.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 17:15
Matt
That was the case in the early 2000s but very soon being the sole player on feet at the scene became a rarity.
The law changed after the 2007 RWC to allow the jackal ( many argued that hands in the ruck was already happening as the first to arrive lifted the ball only milliseconds before others joined to form a ruck).
PG
That was the case in the early 2000s but very soon being the sole player on feet at the scene became a rarity.
The law changed after the 2007 RWC to allow the jackal ( many argued that hands in the ruck was already happening as the first to arrive lifted the ball only milliseconds before others joined to form a ruck).
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 11/06/2024 21:46
Why can't you pop from the ground? The laws seem to say a tackle player can pass or place.
"Im really confused! A ruck is formed when at least one player from each team are in contact, on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground. So being the only one at a ruck means you aren’t in a ruck?"
Yes, you'd need some careful rejigging of the laws. Possibly redefining what a ruck is. Maybe saying you can only pick the ball up from an onside position after a tackle, so you need someone over the ball to create that offside line.
"Im really confused! A ruck is formed when at least one player from each team are in contact, on their feet and over the ball which is on the ground. So being the only one at a ruck means you aren’t in a ruck?"
Yes, you'd need some careful rejigging of the laws. Possibly redefining what a ruck is. Maybe saying you can only pick the ball up from an onside position after a tackle, so you need someone over the ball to create that offside line.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 07:51
Why can't you pop from the ground? The laws seem to say a tackle player can pass or place
Aren't both actions supposed to be immediate, not 4 or 5 seconds after being tackled as often happens now.
Aren't both actions supposed to be immediate, not 4 or 5 seconds after being tackled as often happens now.
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Posted by: Maeght (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 07:58
In recent years I have thought that there has been a lot of playing the ball on the ground that isn't penalised - but thought perhaps I wasn't understanding the rules properly. I see players in a ruck pushing the ball back towards their side - not placing it and realising but pushing it after it has been put to ground. Surely that isn't allowed.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 09:41
Sure, whatever the ball carrier does, strictly, has to be immediate. But as far as I'm aware an "immediate" pop from the ground is as legal as an "immediate" placement. As you say, one issue that would need to be dealt with here is that what the laws say and what happens in a pro game are different. The carrier holds on until support arrives, they only get pinged f that support doesn't arrive quick enough.
Maeght, what did they use to push it back? It fine with your foot. If its the carrier then, well, we're in this situation about where the laws aren't really being policed. If its players joining the ruck then I'm not sure I've really seen it, but I guess they'd say no one wants to see a ruck with the ball dead in the middle.
Definitely feels like another area where just applying the laws would help things. At least give us a standard baseline to work from.
Maeght, what did they use to push it back? It fine with your foot. If its the carrier then, well, we're in this situation about where the laws aren't really being policed. If its players joining the ruck then I'm not sure I've really seen it, but I guess they'd say no one wants to see a ruck with the ball dead in the middle.
Definitely feels like another area where just applying the laws would help things. At least give us a standard baseline to work from.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 10:12
Quote:Maeght
In recent years I have thought that there has been a lot of playing the ball on the ground that isn't penalised - but thought perhaps I wasn't understanding the rules properly. I see players in a ruck pushing the ball back towards their side - not placing it and realising but pushing it after it has been put to ground. Surely that isn't allowed.
I think that's counted as 'placing' (certainly I would regard them as the same when reffing) as long as it is immediate. As Dan says, if the ruck is won then we all want the ball to exit the ruck. For me it falls under materiality.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Maeght (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 10:17
Quote:Dan Wiley
Sure, whatever the ball carrier does, strictly, has to be immediate. But as far as I'm aware an "immediate" pop from the ground is as legal as an "immediate" placement. As you say, one issue that would need to be dealt with here is that what the laws say and what happens in a pro game are different. The carrier holds on until support arrives, they only get pinged f that support doesn't arrive quick enough.
Maeght, what did they use to push it back? It fine with your foot. If its the carrier then, well, we're in this situation about where the laws aren't really being policed. If its players joining the ruck then I'm not sure I've really seen it, but I guess they'd say no one wants to see a ruck with the ball dead in the middle.
Definitely feels like another area where just applying the laws would help things. At least give us a standard baseline to work from.
Hand. I was referring to the tackled player who is on the ground, places the ball, then pushes it back towards his side. Have seen it quite a few times.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 10:19
Have also seen the prem refs telling the 9s to just use their hand rather than foot to get trapped balls out of won rucks in the last months of the season, makes sense to me.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Maeght (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 10:19
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:Maeght
In recent years I have thought that there has been a lot of playing the ball on the ground that isn't penalised - but thought perhaps I wasn't understanding the rules properly. I see players in a ruck pushing the ball back towards their side - not placing it and realising but pushing it after it has been put to ground. Surely that isn't allowed.
I think that's counted as 'placing' (certainly I would regard them as the same when reffing) as long as it is immediate. As Dan says, if the ruck is won then we all want the ball to exit the ruck. For me it falls under materiality .
Placing should be immediate surely. I'm thinking of pushing it back towards their own side after placing. What does materiality mean?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 10:23
Quote:Maeght
Placing should be immediate surely. I'm thinking of pushing it back towards their own side after placing. What does materiality mean?
Rugby refs are told not to blow up everything when it makes no material difference to the game, otherwise it would be at a standstill. The example that is usually given for materiality is:
For instance if a kick-off is taken to the left, but the winger on the far right is in front of the kicker by half a yard, then he is having no material effect on the game and the Ref may ignore it for now. The Ref will however, have a word with the winger at the first opportunity and let him / her know that his offside was noticed.
So yes the winger was offside, but it didn't affect the game in that phase of play. As Dan says, when the ruck is won placing it back or pushing it back to make it available doesn't affect the game. If the ruck is still competitive then I would have a word.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 10:25
I get what Maeght is saying, very often you see the carrier go to ground, hold to chest, wait for the support and then present (push back). I think I've even been coached that (quite) a few years back.
The area is basically a "working mess": holding on, attackers allowed to kill the space beyond the ruck, but we seem to want to keep it that way as it favours continuity in attack. But is the reason we need that the jackal is such a powerful defensive tool?
The area is basically a "working mess": holding on, attackers allowed to kill the space beyond the ruck, but we seem to want to keep it that way as it favours continuity in attack. But is the reason we need that the jackal is such a powerful defensive tool?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 10:32
Quote:BathMatt53
Have also seen the prem refs telling the 9s to just use their hand rather than foot to get trapped balls out of won rucks in the last months of the season, makes sense to me.
I guess there's nothing wrong with a 9 using their hands, otherwise we'd have an issue, its just what's considered "lifted." I'd be happy with a ref effectively saying "I don't consider it lifted if you just make the ball playable with your hand."
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 10:46
Quote:Dan WileyQuote:BathMatt53
Have also seen the prem refs telling the 9s to just use their hand rather than foot to get trapped balls out of won rucks in the last months of the season, makes sense to me.
I guess there's nothing wrong with a 9 using their hands, otherwise we'd have an issue, its just what's considered "lifted." I'd be happy with a ref effectively saying "I don't consider it lifted if you just make the ball playable with your hand."
I agree, but the Laws say you can't as long as the ball is still in the ruck (i.e. in front of the hindmost point of any ruck participant)
Once a ruck has formed, no player may handle the ball unless they were able to get their hands on the ball before the ruck formed and stay on their feet.
Also
Players may play the ball with their feet, provided they do so in a safe manner.
So yes I don't have a problem with it, but strictly its not allowed as far as I can see.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 11:09
Clearly the 9 can use their hands, literally how is the ball going to be played away otherwise, I think that's just poor wording. I've never see a 9 have to use their feet to get it out of the ruck then play it nor a ref enforce that. It's certainly not what we'd want, that 9 would get smashed if not very careful.
I guess it could be clarified by saying no offside player can handle the ball, all players who are part of the ruck are implicitly offside, in front of the "back foot", and I do feel the 9 should be onside (and often isn't, think caterpillar).
I guess it could be clarified by saying no offside player can handle the ball, all players who are part of the ruck are implicitly offside, in front of the "back foot", and I do feel the 9 should be onside (and often isn't, think caterpillar).
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Maeght (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 11:25
Quote:Dan Wiley
I get what Maeght is saying, very often you see the carrier go to ground, hold to chest, wait for the support and then present (push back). I think I've even been coached that (quite) a few years back.
The area is basically a "working mess": holding on, attackers allowed to kill the space beyond the ruck, but we seem to want to keep it that way as it favours continuity in attack. But is the reason we need that the jackal is such a powerful defensive tool?
Yes, that's what I mean - thanks for explaining it better than I did!
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 11:33
Quote:Dan Wiley
I've never see a 9 have to use their feet to get it out of the ruck then play it nor a ref enforce that. It's certainly not what we'd want, that 9 would get smashed if not very careful.
Then you have never seen a caterpillar ruck with the 9 rolling it back along a line of legs with his foot?
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 11:51
I've never seen the 9 actually roll it out the back of the ruck, not a smart one anyway. They roll it to just in front of the back foot then use their hands to pick it up out of the ruck.
Edit:
[www.ruck.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:12:11:52:55 by Dan Wiley.
Edit:
[www.ruck.co.uk]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2024:06:12:11:52:55 by Dan Wiley.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 14:37
Quote:Dorset Boy
Why can't you pop from the ground? The laws seem to say a tackle player can pass or place
Aren't both actions supposed to be immediate, not 4 or 5 seconds after being tackled as often happens now.
4/5 seconds is actually quite a long time if you count it out. I don't think it ever takes that long - maybe 2 seconds at most - but at the speed of elite rugby a lot can happen in 2 seconds - a support player could arrive from the best part of 20 metres away in that time, so it does look a bit like holding on. The last thing the game needs is to further penalise players who get a little bit isolated - especially as it's often from a turnover ball or line-break that the situation arises.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 15:08
I think it would be a good effect of removing jackaling that actually players wouldn't get so easily penalise for getting isolated, though I'm aware of unforeseen consequences in this area.
At the moment an isolated player is very likely to get jackalled, and if they are isolated they need to hold on as the consequences of giving up the ball with no support could be severe. If the ball had to be won first before turned over then first it does give the defence time to cover and secondly it really would look like holding on if a player has "cleared out no one" and you're still there, hands on ball as their next arriving player tries to pull it off you.
I'm still not 100% how a game like this would work, but recalling early years junior rugby where there sort of is this concept in play, alongside jackalling, I don't think it would be as bad as you might otherwise imagine.
At the moment an isolated player is very likely to get jackalled, and if they are isolated they need to hold on as the consequences of giving up the ball with no support could be severe. If the ball had to be won first before turned over then first it does give the defence time to cover and secondly it really would look like holding on if a player has "cleared out no one" and you're still there, hands on ball as their next arriving player tries to pull it off you.
I'm still not 100% how a game like this would work, but recalling early years junior rugby where there sort of is this concept in play, alongside jackalling, I don't think it would be as bad as you might otherwise imagine.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 15:31
Maybe the tackled player could stand up, roll it under their foot for the person behind to pass? Then maybe after 6 phases of possession there would be a turnover? It could catch on…
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 15:34
It sounds like a rather dull game with no competition for the ball, I don't think that's what is being proposed here.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 16:04
That is not what is being proposed here!
Nor Matt's tongue in cheek idea.
A key difference between Union &League is indeed the contest for the ball. Let us though have a contest that make the game resemble League less. At the moment the 13 line-abreast defence makes the game look very much like League!
PG
Nor Matt's tongue in cheek idea.
A key difference between Union &League is indeed the contest for the ball. Let us though have a contest that make the game resemble League less. At the moment the 13 line-abreast defence makes the game look very much like League!
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 16:09
Sorry, my "it" was in reference to matt's proposed game, not anything above.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 16:21
And I doubt Matt was at all serious!
PG
PG
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 16:26
Indeed, but its a fair to look at the consequences. I think there would still be competition, more in some ways, but I could see that you wouldn't get a lightening quick turn over that the jackal was supposed to produce, but in fact it just produces penalties.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2024 16:48
Quote:P G Tips
And I doubt Matt was at all serious!
PG
Drat, you saw through my plan PG!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Never In Doubt (IP Logged)
Date: 16/06/2024 10:25
I think some of the headlines may come from the Championship Board deciding on who the 14 teams will be. As the Board will be equally split between Championship and RFU delegates with an independent Chair then the choice of chair will be interesting.
If the league will be 14 teams and there are currently 12 Championship teams + Jersey + the 3 ex-Premiership teams then there could some noisy horse trading.
If acceptable ground capacity for promotion is initially 5,000 then 4 clubs are already there (Bedford, Coventry, Doncaster and Ealing) with Caldy, Cornish Pirates and London Scottish within 1,000.
Of last years top 6 then only Hartbury are miles aways. Should make for an interesting Championship next year.
If the league will be 14 teams and there are currently 12 Championship teams + Jersey + the 3 ex-Premiership teams then there could some noisy horse trading.
If acceptable ground capacity for promotion is initially 5,000 then 4 clubs are already there (Bedford, Coventry, Doncaster and Ealing) with Caldy, Cornish Pirates and London Scottish within 1,000.
Of last years top 6 then only Hartbury are miles aways. Should make for an interesting Championship next year.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 17/06/2024 09:48
Quote:Would Hartpury be allowed up? Don't they have some sort of shared ownership with Gloucester?Never In Doubt
Of last years top 6 then only Hartbury are miles aways. Should make for an interesting Championship next year.
Or am I out of date? or simply wrong? (or wrong about the regulations?)
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/06/2024 11:08
Quote:Never In Doubt
I think some of the headlines may come from the Championship Board deciding on who the 14 teams will be. As the Board will be equally split between Championship and RFU delegates with an independent Chair then the choice of chair will be interesting.
If the league will be 14 teams and there are currently 12 Championship teams + Jersey + the 3 ex-Premiership teams then there could some noisy horse trading.
If acceptable ground capacity for promotion is initially 5,000 then 4 clubs are already there (Bedford, Coventry, Doncaster and Ealing) with Caldy, Cornish Pirates and London Scottish within 1,000.
Of last years top 6 then only Hartbury are miles aways. Should make for an interesting Championship next year.
Aren't there just 11 clubs in the Championship now? Jersey I would have thought won't be in the running having just gone bust and so it will be current 11 + LI, Wasps and Worc, surely?
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Never In Doubt (IP Logged)
Date: 17/06/2024 12:22
I think it is 12 as Chinnor came up and nobody was relegated given the demise of Jersey.
I am not saying Jersey will try to come back but they seem just as likely as Wasps to get their act together given the lower ground capacity requirements for promotion to the premiership.
I am not saying Jersey will try to come back but they seem just as likely as Wasps to get their act together given the lower ground capacity requirements for promotion to the premiership.
Re: TO A DIFFERENT DRUM. PREMIERSHIP FINAL. Team Up!
Posted by: Never In Doubt (IP Logged)
Date: 17/06/2024 12:24
Many apologies folks - this was supposed to be on the Championship Announcement thread!!
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