CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
By shipwrecked
May 19 2025
EPCR Challenge Cup Final - Friday, 23 May 2025 Principality Stadium K.O. 20:00 BST Bath Rugby v Lyon Olympique Universitaire Rugby (LOU) Referee: Hollie Davidson I’ll hazard a guess that most who read this board won’t be familiar with Lyon as a mid-table team in the Top 14. Those who might have thought that avoiding Owen Farrell’s reprise in a final involving Bath was beneficial might actually need to reconsider. Lyon are one of those sides that, considering the squad, you might well say the team are under performing. Their current players include familiar names like Camille Chat and Sebastien Taofifenua in the front row, Lavanini the big Argentinian lock and the enigmatic Semi Radradra together with the Italian wing Monty Ioane in the backs, interestingly none of whom played in the recent Racing 92 semi-final. Camille Chat joined Lyon from Racing but was recently let go by them after turning up to training after the new year celebrations still drunk! Question might well be: will they make a return for the final?
Lyon play expansive, skilful rugby not dissimilar to that played by our very own Bath side 18 months ago. So perhaps Bath fans might be buoyed by the fact they lack experience of big game finals?
Sadly, not so, in fact in the 2021/22 season they won this very competition beating a Toulon side that contained Eben Etzebeth, Charles Olivon, Segio Parrisse and Cornel DuPreez up front and Baptist Serrin, (9) Louis Carbonel (10) and Cheslin Kolbe (14) in the backs.
In fact, it’s almost certain that the Lyon half backs Baptiste Couillard (9) and Leo Berdeu (10) that played in that EPCR Challenge Cup final win will also feature at the Principality stadium on Friday, 23 May 2025 against Bath. So, what of our prospects?
Well, the Lyon fly half, Berdeu is not only capable of bringing their backs into the game but he also punishes any opposition penalties foolishly offered to him by adding 3 points to the Lyon total. He is a competent kicker both off the tee and out of hand and they have a 22-year-old full back from Georgia (Davit Niniashvili), who will powerfully run the ball back at you if Bath’s kicking is the slightest bit misplaced.
So how will the packs match up? Well, they certainly have some talent up front Guillaume Marchand is the younger brother of Julien Marchand at Toulouse and Mickael Guillard is a 24-year-old rampaging lock who is hard to stop as Owen Farrell discovered in the semi-final.
These two forwards combine well at the lineout forming a competent Lyon driving maul.
So where are Lyon vulnerable then? Well in a way Lyon resemble Bristol in that they like to play enterprising rugby from the start flying out of the blocks. However, if that initial energy is resisted, they often struggle to break a deadlock. Several of their recent wins have been by small margins and providing that initial physical thrust is contained and Bath don’t gift penalties then Bath’s forward power should prevail allowing us to release our game changers in the backs.
Sam Underhill should prove to be a key player and however good the Lyon front row may be the Bath front row is probably better.
Much will depend on our big ball carriers but the first task is probably going to be assert a solid defence and ride the initial storm.
The other factor that needs to be taken into account is that as a club they don’t do particularly play well away from home, many of their wins have been with home advantage and it remains to be seen ‘which French team turns up’ in Cardiff. As if to prove a point they lost away to Stade Francais 31-30 on Saturday.
The stadium roof will be closed which will suit their play but their first visit to the Principality is often daunting. Add to that the fact that Semi Radradra lacks the explosive power he once had and the chances of a win in Wales are just about in our favour.
So, what team will Bath select? Must be the ‘real McCoy’, the ‘Full Monty’, the ‘Whole kit and caboodle’ doesn’t it? No rotation for the final, this is what we all signed up for.
The one thing that cannot be guaranteed is that we will escape from this final unscathed in terms of injury. Lyon will be all out for this game and some of their forwards are seriously combative. This is a final though, a chance for a European Trophy so I suspect there will be some proper fireworks and by that I don’t mean pyrotechnics.
This is our second opportunity to win a trophy this season. This one is solid silver, 60cm tall and weighs 10kg. These chances don’t come around often, our club needs and fully deserves maximum support so let’s get behind them and continue the journey that we have all embarked on with Johann.
The big question is, which celebratory drink will be flowing in Cardiff, Côtes du Rhone or Somerset Cider?
CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2025 16:27
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:27:09:25:31 by CoochieCoo.
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Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2025 18:05
Thanks shipwrecked.
It does seem desirable to field our strongest for a European final, but "Full Monty" will be defined by JvG. With a 6 day turnaround he may well opt for some rotation. None of the following played against Tigers: Griffin, Richards, Bayliss, Reid; Schreuder, Bailey, McConnochie, De Glanville. All have had "first team" appearances this season, so I would not be surprised if several, or even all of them were involved on Friday.
While I am pretty sure that coaches and players will want to win both the ECC and Premiership, I expect that the priority objective is the Premiership.
PG
It does seem desirable to field our strongest for a European final, but "Full Monty" will be defined by JvG. With a 6 day turnaround he may well opt for some rotation. None of the following played against Tigers: Griffin, Richards, Bayliss, Reid; Schreuder, Bailey, McConnochie, De Glanville. All have had "first team" appearances this season, so I would not be surprised if several, or even all of them were involved on Friday.
While I am pretty sure that coaches and players will want to win both the ECC and Premiership, I expect that the priority objective is the Premiership.
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2025 18:31
Yet again rotation leads these threads, its a tricky one for sure but I strongly suspect that given the intimidating nature of the Principality and the fact that the opposition are French that JvG will go for his big game players in key positions. It is however, tricky to decide what our first team actually is.
There are only a handful of the team that play the full 80 minutes nowadays.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
There are only a handful of the team that play the full 80 minutes nowadays.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2025 18:54
I think it'll be treated as a massive game and a final, therefore a fully loaded XV, and also now a dress rehearsal for the Friday night semi final a fortnight later. As said, the question is what is "fully loaded", but I'm confident that the XXIII for the next 2 (or 3) games, injuries/suspensions aside, will be made up of the below in a formation of starters and finishers in the front and back rows:
Obano Dunn Stuart Roux Ewels Hill Underhill Barbeary Spencer Russell Muir Mojo Redpath JCok TDG
Annett VV TDT Maloney Pepper TCS Donoghue Reid
The only hesitation was typing Donoghue. Gut says he's ahead of Bailey, covers 10 and 15, has pace and swagger suited to big pitches, and has already played well in Cardiff. If I'm the oppo, and there's 20 to go, I'd be more relaxed to see Bailey coming on. Having said that, if there's 75 to go and Finn has gone down, I'm not so sure!
In JVG we trust....
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Obano Dunn Stuart Roux Ewels Hill Underhill Barbeary Spencer Russell Muir Mojo Redpath JCok TDG
Annett VV TDT Maloney Pepper TCS Donoghue Reid
The only hesitation was typing Donoghue. Gut says he's ahead of Bailey, covers 10 and 15, has pace and swagger suited to big pitches, and has already played well in Cardiff. If I'm the oppo, and there's 20 to go, I'd be more relaxed to see Bailey coming on. Having said that, if there's 75 to go and Finn has gone down, I'm not so sure!
In JVG we trust....
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: theredseat (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2025 19:34
Personal selection:
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Pepper
Reid
Spencer
Russell
Muir
Redpath
Ojomoh
Cokanasiga
de Glanville
Annett
van Wyk
du Toit
Richards
Underhill
TCS
Donoghue
Barbeary
We’re as good as full strength but would take a chance to give a couple of players an opportunity on this sort of stage. They’ve all earned it so it’s not a freebie by any means.
Have held back some power on the bench to match what I expect Lyon to bring.
Looking forward to seeing Niniashvili but we should be strong enough to get the job done. Bath by 11
Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Pepper
Reid
Spencer
Russell
Muir
Redpath
Ojomoh
Cokanasiga
de Glanville
Annett
van Wyk
du Toit
Richards
Underhill
TCS
Donoghue
Barbeary
We’re as good as full strength but would take a chance to give a couple of players an opportunity on this sort of stage. They’ve all earned it so it’s not a freebie by any means.
Have held back some power on the bench to match what I expect Lyon to bring.
Looking forward to seeing Niniashvili but we should be strong enough to get the job done. Bath by 11
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2025 20:05
Redpath may have an enforced rest. Heavily strapped on Saturday, he looked to be in discomfort when he left the field.
PG
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2025 21:05
I have been over- thinking every selection recently.
I think jvg will go as strong as possible and I think his version of that is something along the below lines:
Tdg
Big Joe
Mojo
Redpath
Muir
Russell
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Du toit
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Underhill
Barbeary
Bench: annett, fvw, stuart, bayliss, reid, pepper, TCS, donghue
Hill to cover second row though would be delighted to see richards in or more than happy for malony to be involved.
I can't ignore how ridiculously good bayliss was in adversity at the principality though.
I think jvg will go as strong as possible and I think his version of that is something along the below lines:
Tdg
Big Joe
Mojo
Redpath
Muir
Russell
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Du toit
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Underhill
Barbeary
Bench: annett, fvw, stuart, bayliss, reid, pepper, TCS, donghue
Hill to cover second row though would be delighted to see richards in or more than happy for malony to be involved.
I can't ignore how ridiculously good bayliss was in adversity at the principality though.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 19/05/2025 21:33
Charlie do you think TdT will start or be part of a 'Bath bomb' we seem to be more of a side that breaks loose after trading punches for 60 minutes?
Why is Bayliss always the bridesmaid for both Bath and Scotland in any other side he would be a regular starter?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Why is Bayliss always the bridesmaid for both Bath and Scotland in any other side he would be a regular starter?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 04:34
We now have three games that metter.
He will go strong every game and pray to the "Injury Gods"
Trouble is what is our strongest team?
I don't believe it is obvious....which of course is fantastic!!
Sorry really good report Shippie!!!
He will go strong every game and pray to the "Injury Gods"
Trouble is what is our strongest team?
I don't believe it is obvious....which of course is fantastic!!
Sorry really good report Shippie!!!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 06:25
Great preview, SW. It's going to be a great occasion. Sadly, I sm working away. Anyone know any pubs in Winchester with Premier Sports?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: WestonLurker (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 07:58
Quote:Rokobilly
Great preview, SW. It's going to be a great occasion. Sadly, I sm working away. Anyone know any pubs in Winchester with Premier Sports?
Someone gave a link to a Premier Sports pub locator in a previous thread
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: hantssabre (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 08:50
Quote:Rokobilly
Great preview, SW. It's going to be a great occasion. Sadly, I sm working away. Anyone know any pubs in Winchester with Premier Sports?
O’Neills in the High Street might be your best bet but I guess it depends what else it clashes with!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 09:22
You could try Winchester RFC?
I used to catch games there.
PG
I used to catch games there.
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Held up (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 09:25
Tdg
Big Joe
Mojo
Butt
Muir
Russell
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Stuart
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Pepper
Barbeary
Bench: Annett, FVW, Du Toit, Molony, Bayliss, Underhill, TCS, Donghue
So good to not know what is the best team is! So much competition. Donoghue has earned his spot in the 23with recent performances but DeG has been outstanding all season and starts. 3 big games (we hope) and Redpath was hobbling at the end of the last game so Butt and Max to take the centre births. Not sure who covers centre naturally if another injury so can see Bailey push Donoghue out or a 5/3 split.
Bayliss has been outstanding and just shades Reid for me, but would be happy with either. Moloney just pips Richards unless we go 5/3 split.
Big Joe
Mojo
Butt
Muir
Russell
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Stuart
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Pepper
Barbeary
Bench: Annett, FVW, Du Toit, Molony, Bayliss, Underhill, TCS, Donghue
So good to not know what is the best team is! So much competition. Donoghue has earned his spot in the 23with recent performances but DeG has been outstanding all season and starts. 3 big games (we hope) and Redpath was hobbling at the end of the last game so Butt and Max to take the centre births. Not sure who covers centre naturally if another injury so can see Bailey push Donoghue out or a 5/3 split.
Bayliss has been outstanding and just shades Reid for me, but would be happy with either. Moloney just pips Richards unless we go 5/3 split.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 09:32
Quote:Held up
Tdg
Big Joe
Mojo
Butt
Muir
Russell
Spencer
Beno
Dunn
Stuart
Roux
Ewels
Hill
Pepper
Barbeary
Bench: Annett, FVW, Du Toit, Molony, Bayliss, Underhill, TCS, Donghue
So good to not know what is the best team is! So much competition. Donoghue has earned his spot in the 23with recent performances but DeG has been outstanding all season and starts. 3 big games (we hope) and Redpath was hobbling at the end of the last game so Butt and Max to take the centre births. Not sure who covers centre naturally if another injury so can see Bailey push Donoghue out or a 5/3 split.
Bayliss has been outstanding and just shades Reid for me, but would be happy with either. Moloney just pips Richards unless we go 5/3 split.
Thats the way round I see TdT being used HU. I would differ though in that I really see Underhill in the starting 15, he sets the standard when tackling particularly against unknown opposition and he has added scoring tries to his repertoire recently.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 09:32
Quote:Rokobilly
Great preview, SW. It's going to be a great occasion. Sadly, I sm working away. Anyone know any pubs in Winchester with Premier Sports?
Thanks all for ideas - I found the Prem Sports venue link. Looks like a couple of options centrally - including O'Neills. Winchester RFC good shout too, PG.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 10:21
Why 3 games?
Ambition says 4: Euro Final v Lyon, Prem v Saracens, Prem Semi v?, then -should we succeed- Prem Final v?
PG
Ambition says 4: Euro Final v Lyon, Prem v Saracens, Prem Semi v?, then -should we succeed- Prem Final v?
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 12:42
Quote:Because away to Saracens in a dead rubber isn't a "big game"?P G Tips
Why 3 games?
Ambition says 4: Euro Final v Lyon, Prem v Saracens, Prem Semi v?, then -should we succeed- Prem Final v?
PG
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 13:10
Quote:Which TylerQuote:Because away to Saracens in a dead rubber isn't a "big game"?P G Tips
Why 3 games?
Ambition says 4: Euro Final v Lyon, Prem v Saracens, Prem Semi v?, then -should we succeed- Prem Final v?
PG
Maybe not, but not one to treat lightly either.
It is a week before the playoff semi, so we're back in the debate about rest/avoiding injury v "undercooked". Also Sarries chance of making the playoffs may be slim, but I suggest we would need to ensure they don't get much encouragement from playing us - as it could be them as 4th placed team that we meet a few days later.
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: copester (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 13:37
I will be amazed if we pick a strong XV at Saracens with a plastic pitch. I think JVG was happy to gamble with HIAs and knocks before the Euro cup as they rested at Bristol, but doubt he will for a League semi final.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: theredseat (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 13:54
I’d be really surprised if the Sarries line up isn’t along the lines of the Bristol game.
Send the Prem Cup team and add a couple of more senior players if there’s anyone that needs minutes
Send the Prem Cup team and add a couple of more senior players if there’s anyone that needs minutes
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 14:06
Anyone heard anything yet about whether Ewels’ elbow deserved a citing or not?
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 14:10
Nothing seen so far.
PG
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: midland BBW (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 15:29
Except if if the RFU Head of Discipline determines that exceptional circumstances exist, a player has to be cited within 24 hours of the conclusion of the match
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Murty7 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 15:34
I think it has to be within 24 hours of the match so I assume no citing
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: boozeboozebooze (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 15:36
Great preview, unexpectedly got my taste buds salivating.
I wonder how the Lyon players will be feeling mentally going into the game, their last minute loss to Stade Francais at the weekend means their last 2 games (away to Toulouse then home to Racing) are absolute must wins to stand any chance of making the play offs.
I wonder how the Lyon players will be feeling mentally going into the game, their last minute loss to Stade Francais at the weekend means their last 2 games (away to Toulouse then home to Racing) are absolute must wins to stand any chance of making the play offs.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Held up (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 16:46
Quote:P G Tips
Why 3 games?
Ambition says 4: Euro Final v Lyon, Prem v Saracens, Prem Semi v?, then -should we succeed- Prem Final v?
PG
Hands up, I completely overlooked the Saracens game, but agree with others that I don’t see us risking players in that game.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: BeatsWorking (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 17:18
Great preview, thanks. Just got my tickets and have that familiar feeling somewhere between excitement and nervousness
Interesting article in Guardian today as well, nice bit of context
[www.theguardian.com]
Interesting article in Guardian today as well, nice bit of context
[www.theguardian.com]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: FiveSticks (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 17:42
Quote:dr.Bath 1865
Anyone heard anything yet about whether Ewels’ elbow deserved a citing or not?
Tigers have just announced that Ollie Chessum has been cited.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 19:00
[quote FiveSticks][quote=dr.Bath 1865]Anyone heard anything yet about whether Ewels’ elbow deserved a citing or not?[/quote]
Tigers have just announced that Ollie Chessum has been cited.[/quote
In that case we should hear something imminently.
Tigers have just announced that Ollie Chessum has been cited.[/quote
In that case we should hear something imminently.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 19:13
I think/hope (but am far from sure) that seeing as Chessum has been cited, it was announced on the Tigers' website at 1700, and his hearing is already scheduled for tonight, seeing as we haven't heard anything by now, Ewels might be in the clear.
But I don't know how these things work or whether Bath's media presence is as on it as Tigers'.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
But I don't know how these things work or whether Bath's media presence is as on it as Tigers'.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 19:31
Yeah from a search, I'm not sure we announce these things in the same way. Looks like Underhill's against Pau was announced after the hearing
So we might not know until Johan's media tomorrow
I will be surprised if escapes, and if he does, Cheika is surely going to have something interesting to say!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:20:19:52:43 by A.M 180.
So we might not know until Johan's media tomorrow
I will be surprised if escapes, and if he does, Cheika is surely going to have something interesting to say!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:20:19:52:43 by A.M 180.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 20:04
Yeh but Underhill’s was an in game red card. We knew about it.
Hard to remember another citing in recent times. Guess that shows how our discipline has improved!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Hard to remember another citing in recent times. Guess that shows how our discipline has improved!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 20:07
Different jurisdiction too- maybe EPCR have different PR protocols?
PG
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 20:35
PG
All I meant was that we had 3 "must win" games and 1 nice to win game which in two years time no one will remember.
Obviously I want to win all four....and as some people on 'ere who know me will know why I want to beat Saracens!
However I don't see the loss of morale issue as an issue at all. If we put out a Prem Cup squad and then face them a week later in the Paly Offs it is a completely different event. Remember beating Saints at the Rec last year easily and then losing to them in the final?
All I meant was that we had 3 "must win" games and 1 nice to win game which in two years time no one will remember.
Obviously I want to win all four....and as some people on 'ere who know me will know why I want to beat Saracens!
However I don't see the loss of morale issue as an issue at all. If we put out a Prem Cup squad and then face them a week later in the Paly Offs it is a completely different event. Remember beating Saints at the Rec last year easily and then losing to them in the final?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 21:12
I do remember BSJ: I was there. Yes, Bath lost, but played 59 minutes a man down and were actaully leading within the last 10 minutes.
PG
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Francis Allen (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 21:54
Very few of Saints key players played in the league game, no Mitchell, Smith, Furbank, Lawes, Freeman etc etc. Only 10 of that squad were in the Final 23. We should follow that example against Saracens or with even more caution.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 21:58
Quote:Yes and the other factor is the pitch at the Stone XFrancis Allen
Very few of Saints key players played in the league game, no Mitchell, Smith, Furbank, Lawes, Freeman etc etc. Only 10 of that squad were in the Final 23. We should follow that example against Saracens or with even more caution.
These 4/5G pitches just aren't worth the risk sometimes
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 20/05/2025 22:05
Quote:theredseat
I’d be really surprised if the Sarries line up isn’t along the lines of the Bristol game.
Send the Prem Cup team and add a couple of more senior players if there’s anyone that needs minutes
This. Madness to do anything otherwise.
Guns out at the Rec on the 6th.
J
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2025 05:54
Agree on all the comments re sarries game.
Even with a loss there is lots to gain in terms of experience for young guys plus a bit of game time for anyone that will benefit from it.
Depends on selection for Friday and any fall out from that of course in terms of injury/suspension but I would be going for something along the below lines:
Bailey emmens hennessey butt rmc donoghue TCS
Fvw spandler griffin malony richards bayliss staddon green
Bench: cordwell kepu sela/verden jeanes reid pepper schreuder offiah
So not far off the squad we sent to Cardiff. Keep beno/dunn/ annett/ tdt/ stuart/ roux/ ewels/ hill/underhill/ alfie/ spencer/ finn/ mojo/ cam/ muir/ big joe/ tdg wrapped in cotton wool but chance to keep ticking over for guys who have generally been getting fewer mins off the bench.
Even with a loss there is lots to gain in terms of experience for young guys plus a bit of game time for anyone that will benefit from it.
Depends on selection for Friday and any fall out from that of course in terms of injury/suspension but I would be going for something along the below lines:
Bailey emmens hennessey butt rmc donoghue TCS
Fvw spandler griffin malony richards bayliss staddon green
Bench: cordwell kepu sela/verden jeanes reid pepper schreuder offiah
So not far off the squad we sent to Cardiff. Keep beno/dunn/ annett/ tdt/ stuart/ roux/ ewels/ hill/underhill/ alfie/ spencer/ finn/ mojo/ cam/ muir/ big joe/ tdg wrapped in cotton wool but chance to keep ticking over for guys who have generally been getting fewer mins off the bench.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2025 06:14
Quote:shipwrecked
Charlie do you think TdT will start or be part of a 'Bath bomb' we seem to be more of a side that breaks loose after trading punches for 60 minutes?
Why is Bayliss always the bridesmaid for both Bath and Scotland in any other side he would be a regular starter?
Pretty relaxed either way SW.
I do like the idea of huge impact off the bench but I think any combo can provide that really. No issue with swapping it all around and having beno/dunn/tdt/ hill/underhill/ alfie on the bench and give most of them 25-35 mins to cause huge impact.
I think the depth in the pack allows us a variety of approaches.
Bayliss maybe is pretty happy with his role. Since injury he has been pretty heavily involved with both starts and off the bench. With his Scotland commitments as well maybe he is comfortable with the situation of not being played into the ground? Could be good for longevity? Hell of a player but hard to place him above hill/underhill/alfie/reid/pepper/jaco- all pretty tight tbh, always happy to see any of them in the 23.
Great preview BTW SW!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2025 06:15
Quote:ChippenhamRoman
]I’d be really surprised if the Sarries line up isn’t along the lines of the Bristol game.
Send the Prem Cup team and add a couple of more senior players if there’s anyone that needs minutes
I think you’re correct as has been everything done by JvG since the Treviso game. It’s reassuring to have someone in charge who just gets things right & gets the best out of every player, someone in whom you can have total confidence. It’s just the opposite with West Ham, every team selection seems crazy & a step backwards so we eventually fall down the stairs!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:21:06:16:36 by Bath Hammer.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Punder (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2025 12:48
Quote:hantssabreQuote:Rokobilly
Great preview, SW. It's going to be a great occasion. Sadly, I sm working away. Anyone know any pubs in Winchester with Premier Sports?
O’Neills in the High Street might be your best bet but I guess it depends what else it clashes with!
I watched the Edinburgh semi-final at O'Neills with my family. Phone them in advance and they will properly look after you - they provided table service for us and couldn't have been more welcoming and accomodating.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 21/05/2025 19:08
A preview of the match also appears on the rugby page of BBC sports site in which JvG has urged his Bath players to "keep it simple" and "stick to the process".
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Susanne (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 07:53
Do we know if the roof will be closed?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 08:00
Quote:Susanne
Do we know if the roof will be closed?
I believe its shut for repairs/maintenance ?
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 08:03
According to the European Rugby Champions Cup FB site (post 18th May) the roof is to be closed.
Also quoted last month saying:
'Iconic Principality Stadium roof to be closed, heightening unique and intense atmosphere'
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Also quoted last month saying:
'Iconic Principality Stadium roof to be closed, heightening unique and intense atmosphere'
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Susanne (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 08:06
Thanks - off to buy ear plugs!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 11:33
Quote:Susanne
Do we know if the roof will be closed?
It will be. I read all events bar Wales 6 Nations games will be in the closed roof. IIRC both teams have to agree to it being closed in the 6 Nations. Great if you are an expansive team and the weather is hooning down. Not solid your team is an up the jumper tight team going up the guts.
J
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Shadders (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 12:43
Bath Rugby Starting XV: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Miles Reid, 9 Ben Spencer (c), 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Will Butt, 13 Max Ojomoh, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Tom de Glanville
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Ciaran Donoghue, 23 Alfie Barbeary
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Ciaran Donoghue, 23 Alfie Barbeary
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 12:43
Team's Up. Gone strong, with a couple of tweaks.:
Bath Rugby: 15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Max Ojomoh, 12 Will Butt, 11 Will Muir, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Ben Spencer (c); 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Miles Reid.
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Ciaran Donoghue, 23 Alfie Barbeary
PG
Bath Rugby: 15 Tom de Glanville, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 13 Max Ojomoh, 12 Will Butt, 11 Will Muir, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Ben Spencer (c); 1 Beno Obano, 2 Tom Dunn, 3 Will Stuart, 4 Quinn Roux, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 Ted Hill, 7 Sam Underhill, 8 Miles Reid.
Replacements: 16 Niall Annett, 17 Francois van Wyk, 18 Thomas du Toit, 19 Ross Molony, 20 Guy Pepper, 21 Tom Carr-Smith, 22 Ciaran Donoghue, 23 Alfie Barbeary
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 12:47
So its Butt and Mojo in the centres, no Cam Redpath (injury concerns I guess). TdT at 60 minutes and Ciarran Donoughue makes the bench for a final after only a few games, clearly rated!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: HK890 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 12:55
In my opinion that’s the exact strongest 23 we can put out right now. Even with Cam fit think Butt stays in with his gainline presence.
Reid at 8 and Barbs off the bench works very well.
Imagine this will be the team for the Playoffs aswell.
Massive game!
Reid at 8 and Barbs off the bench works very well.
Imagine this will be the team for the Playoffs aswell.
Massive game!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 13:05
Great to see TCS on bench
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 13:14
Lyon seem to be missing a few, including Radradra!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 13:23
Quote:shipwrecked
So its Butt and Mojo in the centres, no Cam Redpath (injury concerns I guess). TdT at 60 minutes and Ciarran Donoughue makes the bench for a final after only a few games, clearly rated!
Somerset Live confirms Cam is injured.
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Shadders (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 13:24
Lyon Starting XV : Rey, Chat, Ainsley - William, Guillard - Cretin, Saginadze, Botha - Couilloud (cap), Berdeu - Dumortier, Millet, Maraku, Rattez - Niniashvili.
Finishers : Marchand, Kaabèche, Aptsiauri, Lambey, Allen, Gouzou, Page-Relo, Méliande.
Finishers : Marchand, Kaabèche, Aptsiauri, Lambey, Allen, Gouzou, Page-Relo, Méliande.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 13:59
No Lavanini (bid Argentinian lock) and it looks like they have a back row at lock. strong front row. Half backs as expected but no Semi Radradra as previously noted. Niniashvili at 15 is a handful.
I'm not sure that's their full strength selection.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I'm not sure that's their full strength selection.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathOtter (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 14:05
Quote:shipwrecked
No Lavanini (bid Argentinian lock) and it looks like they have a back row at lock. strong front row. Half backs as expected but no Semi Radradra as previously noted. Niniashvili at 15 is a handful.
I'm not sure that's their full strength selection.
Saw someone on Twitter mention that they're up against it in the Top14 and struggling to battle the drop, so might be resting some for full focus on that? Not sure how accurate that is though
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 14:12
10 pts above bottom 2 with 2 games to play. Next game away at Toulouse then home to Racing. Relegation presumably unlikely.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Barfboy (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 14:17
Also missing Matavesi, Jackson and Ioane....no idea if all these guys are injured or rested but not sure I care!
Great team for us. Hope Butt goes well after a few clangers last week. Cam like a second openside who will be missed in defence and attack. Bench - again - just looks formidable.
COYB
Great team for us. Hope Butt goes well after a few clangers last week. Cam like a second openside who will be missed in defence and attack. Bench - again - just looks formidable.
COYB
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: theredseat (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 14:27
Based on a quick check of the stats for this year that looks pretty close to a first choice 23. Missing names are Radrada who’s been a bit in and out the side this year, Monty Ioane who hasn’t played for a month (always seems a real handful so good news for us) and Lavanini (unsure why he’s out).
I can’t see any obviously rested players or anything like that. From what I know Guillard is a current French international second row, Cretin is a really good flanker, Couillard would probably have double the international caps if he wasn’t French and Niniashvili is legit top class.
Bath to win the inaugural Carl Fearns derby…
I can’t see any obviously rested players or anything like that. From what I know Guillard is a current French international second row, Cretin is a really good flanker, Couillard would probably have double the international caps if he wasn’t French and Niniashvili is legit top class.
Bath to win the inaugural Carl Fearns derby…
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 14:28
Matevesi or Chat the latter wins on big game experience I think. Jackson hasn't hardly played at all this season and Monty Ioane is out for 6 weeks with a broken finger.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 15:18
Looking good!!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 16:45
Feel sorry for cam but hopefully back fit for finale of the prem.
Wonder if fit next weeknwhether he will get a chance to stake his claim against sarries.
We don't seen keen on players missing more than 1 week of rugby.
Team looks good- tdt, barbs, pepper in particular should add something from the bench.
Don't want to lose a centre early on- that would be disruptive.
Bayliss couldn't have done more in the bris game to make his case- similar for richards. Hopefully they will go again against sarries and are ready if a place opens up.
Wonder if fit next weeknwhether he will get a chance to stake his claim against sarries.
We don't seen keen on players missing more than 1 week of rugby.
Team looks good- tdt, barbs, pepper in particular should add something from the bench.
Don't want to lose a centre early on- that would be disruptive.
Bayliss couldn't have done more in the bris game to make his case- similar for richards. Hopefully they will go again against sarries and are ready if a place opens up.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 16:48
Just heard from club that 5,000 Bath flags will be distributed at the stadium before KO. Best way to get on is at Walkabout or when staff bus arrives.
PG
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: theredseat (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 16:49
Quote:shipwrecked
Matevesi or Chat the latter wins on big game experience I think. Jackson hasn't hardly played at all this season and Monty Ioane is out for 6 weeks with a broken finger.
Chat also wins on neck size. It’s really quite an extraordinary body shape he has
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 16:53
Who from the bench covers centre if Butt or Ojomoh has to go off?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 16:57
Best of luck for tomorrow
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 16:59
Many thanks Stopsy..🫰
PG
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Montyuk (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 17:06
Quote:tigersimon
Who from the bench covers centre if Butt or Ojomoh has to go off?
I'd imagine he'd put CD on the wing, or at full back and TdG on the wing then move Horse or Big Joe into the centre
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER?
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 17:13
Quote:MontyukQuote:tigersimon
Who from the bench covers centre if Butt or Ojomoh has to go off?
I'd imagine he'd put CD on the wing, or at full back and TdG on the wing then move Horse or Big Joe into the centre
It’s a good point Tigersimon. Orlando Bailey gives more options IMHO
Widcombe Garçon
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 17:25
Depends which one is injured?
Can see TdG at 13.
PG
Can see TdG at 13.
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 17:46
I think that both centres can do a job at 13, so I think we'd go with Finn to 12 and Donoghue to 10.
Great team. Love Barbeary from the bench. If we keep our discipline, don't lose our heads and get cards, I think we'll have too much over the 80, especially as it should feel like a home game.
Goodness, these are fun and exciting times to be a long time and world weary Bath fan!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Great team. Love Barbeary from the bench. If we keep our discipline, don't lose our heads and get cards, I think we'll have too much over the 80, especially as it should feel like a home game.
Goodness, these are fun and exciting times to be a long time and world weary Bath fan!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 17:53
Are Stuart and TDT swapping starts and replacement spots or is it horses for courses depending on opposition?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 19:25
I'm not sure why you put all of the backs in foreign positions in a huge reorganisation shuffle. Donoghue is the replacement back put him at centre alongside Finn. Cover his position with a back rower if need be but he doesn't shirk tackles. He is picked by JvG to do a job, if JvFG had doubts he would have picked Bailey.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: WasBBWBaaBaa (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 19:42
Is there anyway to watch the match without the subscription channel?
I thought I saw somewhere that it mentioned YouTube or S4C?
I thought I saw somewhere that it mentioned YouTube or S4C?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 19:48
It's not on S4C, but the big final obn Saturday is on S4C
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 20:16
Please when the game starts can people who post post the score....
Recently no one seems to post the score.
I will be keeping an eye on ERE and of course we are ahead of the BBC.....obviously!!
Recently no one seems to post the score.
I will be keeping an eye on ERE and of course we are ahead of the BBC.....obviously!!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 20:21
There is live 2nd half commentary on BBC Radio 5 Live
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 20:24
And Full commentary on BBC 5 Live Sports extra 3
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 20:43
Quote:WasBBWBaaBaa
Is there anyway to watch the match without the subscription channel?
I thought I saw somewhere that it mentioned YouTube or S4C?
There are supposedly some pubs around Bath showing the match
[www.premiersportsvenuefinder.com]
Would check with the venue before travelling.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 22/05/2025 22:16
Quote:shipwrecked
I'm not sure why you put all of the backs in foreign positions in a huge reorganisation shuffle. Donoghue is the replacement back put him at centre alongside Finn. Cover his position with a back rower if need be but he doesn't shirk tackles. He is picked by JvG to do a job, if JvFG had doubts he would have picked Bailey.
Agree, back donoghue to do a job in the centre rather than a big reshuffle where you still end up with someone in the centre who isn't a specialist centre.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 05:33
I am told my comment above "Looking Good" is apparently not adequate...so,
LOOKING VERY GOOD!
I am overseas and 3 hours ahead so hence my earlier comment when people are posting during the game to keep putting the score up
LOOKING VERY GOOD!
I am overseas and 3 hours ahead so hence my earlier comment when people are posting during the game to keep putting the score up
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 07:10
Quote:Dorset Boy
It's not on S4C, but the big final obn Saturday is on S4C
What is S4C???
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 07:30
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Dorset Boy
It's not on S4C, but the big final obn Saturday is on S4C
What is S4C???
The Welsh language channel
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 07:59
Anyone know how ticket sales have gone for the little cup and what sort of attendance we are expecting?
Imagine many fans double up for both games today and tomorrow and should be plenty of us nipping across the border again....
Imagine many fans double up for both games today and tomorrow and should be plenty of us nipping across the border again....
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BucksBBandW (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 08:52
Back Donoghue all the way. He can stir things up from the bench when Lyon are tiring and JvG clearly likes his subs to be impact players, not just someone to give a starter a rest.
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 08:55
Against Newcastle in particular, and after Finn came on, Donoghue was entering the line at IC a lot and it was causing all kinds of problems for the defence.
Defensively, maybe you do look at bringing a Horse or TdG, but to be honest, I have no grounds for thinking Ciaran is a lightweight in the tackle
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:08:56:17 by A.M 180.
Defensively, maybe you do look at bringing a Horse or TdG, but to be honest, I have no grounds for thinking Ciaran is a lightweight in the tackle
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:08:56:17 by A.M 180.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 09:05
Even Lam is backing us!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Benisjammin (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 09:33
Last time I went to the Millennium Stadium it was New Years Eve 1999.
James Dean Bradfield played a song straight after midnight which thoroughly sums up how I feel about Bath this season - [youtu.be]
Bath by 17
COYB!!
James Dean Bradfield played a song straight after midnight which thoroughly sums up how I feel about Bath this season - [youtu.be]
Bath by 17
COYB!!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 09:45
Quote:A.M 180
thats quite unanimous - i cant seem to find it on my Paddy Power app
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 11:00
Quote:Woodpecker
i cant seem to find it on my Paddy Power app
Skybet has Bath by 12...which would be nice.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: theredseat (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 11:40
What time are people setting off later? Not expecting a quick journey but no idea how bad the M4 is actually going to be
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 11:52
Quote:theredseat
What time are people setting off later? Not expecting a quick journey but no idea how bad the M4 is actually going to be
M4 won't be too bad but it depends where you are parked, its getting to the M4 that's the rate determining step. The link road A4243 is the problem. Often jammed.
If your parking means you can get to the a470, (Also called Manor Way) thats probably easier.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 12:06
Quote:theredseat
What time are people setting off later? Not expecting a quick journey but no idea how bad the M4 is actually going to be
Picking the boys up from school in Chippenham at 1500, collecting my pal from Bathampton, picking my jersey up from my parents house in Larkhall then off to Cardiff. Reckon circa 1600 from Larkhall.
J
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 12:18
Anyone driving keep your eyeballs open for speed limits / variable speed limits, you can easily get caught out if you aren't watching like a hawk (like the M25 now). The cameras will be on whether a limit is shown on not, so a gentle cruise up and the same back whilst talking about Tom Dunns interception on the Bath line and 99m try including 15 dummys, Henry Arundel (Irish vs R92) eat your heart out.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 12:29
Quote:BathMatt53
Anyone driving keep your eyeballs open for speed limits / variable speed limits, you can easily get caught out if you aren't watching like a hawk (like the M25 now). The cameras will be on whether a limit is shown on not, so a gentle cruise up and the same back whilst talking about Tom Dunns interception on the Bath line and 99m try including 15 dummys, Henry Arundel (Irish vs R92) eat your heart out.
Great point Matt, not only on the motorway but the speed limit is 20MPH in Wales, most well used roads are 30mph but its basically a cash raising system for Welsh government.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: bathwickboy (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 13:00
Just stating a fact that the match is being shown live on the French channel 3. Of course I would not dream of advocating how one might possibly watch this in the UK as I daresay it is illegal, so just putting it out as a point of information!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 13:55
Anybody travelling down from the Midlands - be aware that M5 is closed at Stroud!
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:16:07:38 by P G Tips.
PG
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:16:07:38 by P G Tips.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 14:01
Quote:P G Tips
Anybody travelling down from the Midlands - be aware that M% is closed at Stroud!
PG
That pesky M%!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 14:40
The M$ can be just as bad!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: tigerburnie (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 14:52
Good luck you guys.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 15:33
Quote:tigerburnie
Good luck you guys.
Many thanks, I'm hoping we don't actually need luck!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 16:08
Quote:WoodpeckerQuote:P G Tips
Anybody travelling down from the Midlands - be aware that M% is closed at Stroud!
PG
That pesky M%!
And my informant failed to tell me what % of the motorway was affected!
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 16:14
Ha Ha....a mistake I often make
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 16:21
Quote:P G TipsQuote:WoodpeckerQuote:P G Tips
Anybody travelling down from the Midlands - be aware that M% is closed at Stroud!
PG
That pesky M%!
And my informant failed to tell me what % of the motorway was affected!
PG
This might help for the M% (M5) near Stroud
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:16:25:23 by shipwrecked.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 16:24
Having said that the M$ (M4) already has issues with the A4232 link road already congested.
Probably doesn't help as you guys are sitting in it right now!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:16:26:49 by shipwrecked.
Probably doesn't help as you guys are sitting in it right now!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:16:26:49 by shipwrecked.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 18:36
I hope Bath are more accurate than shipwrecked’s 20mph post.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 19:12
Seeing as the boy is home for the weekend and doesn't want to go out to watch the game, I have sucummbed and subscribed to Premier Sports for as month. We'd have spent more if we'd gone out to watch.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 19:18
Which RWC did DuToit win?
Is it presenters forgetting the difference between hype and reality again?
Or am I missing something?
ETA 2019, apparently he sat on the bench against Namibia and Canada
I obviously want paying attention to him then
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:19:25:37 by Which Tyler.
Is it presenters forgetting the difference between hype and reality again?
Or am I missing something?
ETA 2019, apparently he sat on the bench against Namibia and Canada
I obviously want paying attention to him then
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:19:25:37 by Which Tyler.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Maeght (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 19:28
Quote:Which Tyler
Which RWC did DuToit win?
Is it presenters forgetting the difference between hype and reality again?
Or am I missing something?
ETA 2019, apparently he sat on the bench against Namibia and Canada
I obviously want paying attention to him then
Yes, and Bath referred to him as a World Cup Winner when he signed.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:01
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:01
Bath 3 -Lyon 5 but all Bath since the early score
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:04
Dunn scores the pick. and go penalty
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:09
Amazing Bath support...I wish I was there!!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:10
Looking pretty superior so far...long may it continue.
Spencer at his peak.
Spencer at his peak.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:10
Underhill awesome power sets up the score for Max
17 -5
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
17 -5
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:10
Bath coming back
B 17 - 5 L
24 min
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:20:11:10 by Which Tyler.
B 17 - 5 L
24 min
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:20:11:10 by Which Tyler.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:12
Dunn a dark horse for the England tour?
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:16
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:16
Underhill card due?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:16
Very very lucky that’s a yellow only
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:16
Always liked Hollie Davidson!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:17
Oof, got away with that one - generously finding some mitigation due to the cut back inside
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Barnoid (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:19
Definitely seen those given as red before.
Happy that Niniashvili seems none the worse for the clonk on the bonce.
Happy that Niniashvili seems none the worse for the clonk on the bonce.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:20
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:20
Could easily have been red. Cut back inside and Unders was stooping a bit but usually red that.
Reid has been huge so far. Massively physical game.
Is Spencer carrying some sort of knock? A bang to the face maybe? Looks a bit uncomfortable.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Reid has been huge so far. Massively physical game.
Is Spencer carrying some sort of knock? A bang to the face maybe? Looks a bit uncomfortable.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:24
Brain melting moments atm what is yon
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:24
Eeesh. Settle it down boys.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:24
As an aside, can’t stand any of the Premier Sports coverage. Makes me yearn Discovery for Kay and Healey.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:25
Yellow all day for Muir - taking the catcher in the air, no challenge at all.
17 - 5
34'
13v15 men
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
17 - 5
34'
13v15 men
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:25
Good god that was soft
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:25
Blocking? Or am I a Cyclops?
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:26
What was even softer is Lyon doing stupid stuff
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:27
Blimey. Davidson has her hands full.
We need to get a grip. I know cup finals do odd things to the top two inches but need cooler heads here.
Can Goode just be quiet for a bit.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
We need to get a grip. I know cup finals do odd things to the top two inches but need cooler heads here.
Can Goode just be quiet for a bit.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:28
More shape Bath - even if you just have to cut back in and reset
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:31
Well, we've seen put the 13 man period without conceding, and they're right, Lyon are the ones look tired
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:20:35:01 by Which Tyler.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:20:35:01 by Which Tyler.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:32
Didn't see anything high, but it looks like it should be
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:33
Commentators are getting a bit wearing
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:33
Goode really won't stop banging on will he?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:34
Quote:Which Tyler
Didn't see anything high, but it looks like it should be
Ironically looked the worst when nothing there.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:34
Quote:one of them specifically!Toast and Marmite
Commentators are getting a bit wearing
And we weather the storm to HT
Bath 17 - 5 Lyon
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:34
Goode is awful - people give TNT criticism, but theyve made a conscious effort to stop nitpicking every decision, a la football
That said, we have to be so careful
Underhill will be banned for the rest of the season, and we can't be losing anyone else
That said, we have to be so careful
Underhill will be banned for the rest of the season, and we can't be losing anyone else
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:34
Goode just can’t say anything positive about anything.
One of those games where we just need to calm down and get out of it unscathed, injury and suspension free, and with any type of win.
Not enjoying watching it much at all!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
One of those games where we just need to calm down and get out of it unscathed, injury and suspension free, and with any type of win.
Not enjoying watching it much at all!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:35
Some incredibly big hits. Tense.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:37
I’m wondering whether refs have had instructions to try and mitigate down to a yellow where at all possible? (More than was previously the case I mean.)
It would certainly explain a few decisions over the past few weeks.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
It would certainly explain a few decisions over the past few weeks.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: DeeGee (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:37
Premier Sports are doing nothing to convince me not to cancel my subscription on the final whistle! Painful coverage and commentary.
Hollie is no Sara - she takes all the joy out of the game in a way the better refs really don't
Hollie is no Sara - she takes all the joy out of the game in a way the better refs really don't
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:37
With going long over the 40 minutes, there can't be long left on Muir's card, and with the cavalry to come 10 minutes after him, this feels like it'll be comfortable IF Lyon don't come out with a brilliant HT talk.
We've definitely had the rub of the green from Hollie though
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
We've definitely had the rub of the green from Hollie though
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:39
Goode is so not good. Hopefully he'll eat his mic at HT
Tough half for Hollie but she's done well and I think got the calls right
Tough half for Hollie but she's done well and I think got the calls right
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:42
Quote:A.M 180
Goode is awful - people give TNT criticism, but theyve made a conscious effort to stop nitpicking every decision, a la football
That said, we have to be so careful
Underhill will be banned for the rest of the season, and we can't be losing anyone else
It’s head scratching how he has suddenly been off in terms of his technique - that said, he’s been brilliant for years and is hopefully just having a streak of bad form
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:43
Quote:DeeGee
Premier Sports are doing nothing to convince me not to cancel my subscription on the final whistle! Painful coverage and commentary.
Hollie is no Sara - she takes all the joy out of the game in a way the better refs really don't
Yeah it’s shockingly amateur compared to TNT.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:43
The nit picking of every decision by a commentator having watched multiple replays on tv is so boring.
It’s been a chaotic game. But there’s plenty of good stuff to talk about. I always find the TNT/Discovery lot, led by Mullins or Ekyn, try to find the positive. This coverage feels as if it’s trying to be very sort of ‘laddy’ pitch side and miserable and old fashioned in the comm box.
Let’s just get through the next 40 and go home with the silver pot.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
It’s been a chaotic game. But there’s plenty of good stuff to talk about. I always find the TNT/Discovery lot, led by Mullins or Ekyn, try to find the positive. This coverage feels as if it’s trying to be very sort of ‘laddy’ pitch side and miserable and old fashioned in the comm box.
Let’s just get through the next 40 and go home with the silver pot.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:45
Not for the weak hearted! Bath support here drowns out the Marseilles every time.
Lyon support here have consoled themselves to losing I just hope they are right.
I fully expect a surge from Barbeary TDT etc at about 60 mins.
Thought the crowd would be bigger!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Lyon support here have consoled themselves to losing I just hope they are right.
I fully expect a surge from Barbeary TDT etc at about 60 mins.
Thought the crowd would be bigger!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:46
God almighty and let’s not even talk about the commentator going into the crowd.
Cringe inducing- and not due to the fans
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Cringe inducing- and not due to the fans
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:48
God almighty someone at the ground snip Goode’s mic cable
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: The Bard (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:48
Don’t think you guys need any help to win this but two reds avoided, another yellow and the softest of decisions to rule out a try.
What would ROG or Dimes have said to the officials?
What would ROG or Dimes have said to the officials?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:49
Quote:nah, Muir was a cast iron yellow, never a red, and who should the other card be for? I must have missed one.The Bard
Don’t think you guys need any help to win this but two reds avoided, another yellow and the softest of decisions to rule out a try.
What would ROG or Dimes have said to the officials?
Underhill - yeah should have been red, though as mentioned above, a lot more leeway seems to have been given to mitigate recently - ever since the 2nd week of RWC23 TBF
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:20:51:00 by Which Tyler.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:50
Quote:The Bard
Don’t think you guys need any help to win this but two reds avoided, another yellow and the softest of decisions to rule out a try.
What would ROG or Dimes have said to the officials?
2 reds? Not in a month of Sundays.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:53
Hmm good try but would like to see that play again - looked as if tackled player went twice…
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: The Bard (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:55
He took him out at the top of the his jump and he wasn’t even off the ground. That’s a pretty standard red. Two offsides on the try line in one phase has to be yellow.
With the 20 minute red they’d definitely both have gone,
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:20:56:03 by The Bard.
With the 20 minute red they’d definitely both have gone,
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:20:56:03 by The Bard.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 20:58
Quote:The Bard
He took him out at the top of the his jump and he wasn’t even off the ground. That’s a pretty standard red. Two offsides on the try line in one phase has to be yellow.
Even Goode doesn’t agree with you on Muir.
And multiple penalties on the try line would also have seen Lyon players carded.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:00
Wrecking crew about to join
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:01
The wrecking crew come on.
3rd try
27 - 12
51'
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
3rd try
27 - 12
51'
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Pulteneyfan (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:02
I fear for Sam Underhills season at the hands of the citing officer …but the way this whole game has been refereed, might just save him. Davidson has taken a very relaxed approach - might just be enough 🤞
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:04
Quote:it should be a 6 week starting pint.Pulteneyfan
I fear for Sam Underhills season at the hands of the citing officer …but the way this whole game has been refereed, might just save him. Davidson has taken a very relaxed approach - might just be enough 🤞
Given his red in January he shouldn't get the 50% reduction - but will if Borthwick wants him in Argentina.
Shouldn't qualify for tackle school just a few months after doing it
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:05
Wonder if Ted went off instead of Sam because they think Sam might not be available again for a while, so less point in giving him a breather.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:06
Yuk. TDG does seem to have a nasty habit of overcooking kicks now and then…
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: The Bard (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:07
Quote:Toast and MarmiteQuote:The Bard
He took him out at the top of the his jump and he wasn’t even off the ground. That’s a pretty standard red. Two offsides on the try line in one phase has to be yellow.
Even Goode doesn’t agree with you on Muir.
I rest my case!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:07
Quote:Across all the commentators and analysts, and 3 rugby forrae... You're on your own there. Which you're perfectly entitled to be, btw.The Bard
He took him out at the top of the his jump and he wasn’t even off the ground. That’s a pretty standard red. Two offsides on the try line in one phase has to be yellow.
With the 20 minute red they’d definitely both have gone,
Don't think I've ever seen a yellow for just 2 offsides close on the try line
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:21:19:40 by Which Tyler.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:11
Hardly the most searing insight I know, but worth remarking again just how much our game management has improved in the last couple of seasons
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:13
Beautiful boys!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:13
Quote:100%Toast and Marmite
Hardly the most searing insight I know, but worth remarking again just how much our game management has improved in the last couple of seasons
Pity about some of the execution.
Couple of kicks dead, Finn's DG attempt... Unforced errors.
Beautiful from Max, Tom and Ben there
Bath 34 - 23 Lyon
64'
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:23:21:14:59 by Which Tyler.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:14
A Captain’s score and that is surely the game.
Superb work by Max and Tom!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Superb work by Max and Tom!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:23
I like taking the points.
It's showing the right mindset for finals.
TBH, for Finn, it's showing Farrell & Sexton that he's not "just a maverick"
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
It's showing the right mindset for finals.
TBH, for Finn, it's showing Farrell & Sexton that he's not "just a maverick"
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:25
I will contribute to a crowdfunder to enable TNT to buy out the European rights
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:26
The commentary now hasn’t mentioned the game for 3-4 minutes. Ok they’re talking about Bath, but what about the game? The last 5 minutes of a cup final? It’s useless
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:28
Joe C has added so much to his game, particularly the unglamorous nuts and bolts aspects of the game
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:28
Strange game, most memorable bit has been the terrible production… but we’re there!
COME ON YOU BATH!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
COME ON YOU BATH!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:30
That was a sexy scrum.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:31
Hope that wasn't an injury again for Max.
Going down with noone around, albeit straight back up
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Going down with noone around, albeit straight back up
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:33
Butt has had ham hands all evening
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:34
FAN….TASTIC ! 
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Susanne (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:34
So hasta, is anything on???
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BucksBBandW (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:36
Now let's get that third bit of silverware! COYB!
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:36
Get in boys!!!
2 down…
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
2 down…
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:37
The treble. Is. On.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BeatsWorking (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:37
Awesome. Very very happy days!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Stopsy (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:38
Well done and well deserved
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:39
Let's hope we make the big final next year, when surely Andy Goode can not be commentator
More importantly - huge congrats to the boys and the coaching team. Things to learn from tonight but let your hair down at least. Big things on the horizon
More importantly - huge congrats to the boys and the coaching team. Things to learn from tonight but let your hair down at least. Big things on the horizon
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:43
As a Spurs fan, I'm having quite a week.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:44
Great pictures of Johan sat in the pitch soaking it in…
The man is building not just a squad but a dynasty, one that can compete with the European giants.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
The man is building not just a squad but a dynasty, one that can compete with the European giants.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BucksBBandW (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:44
Quote:I wonder how many Man Utd fans there are in Lyon.JK7
As a Spurs fan, I'm having quite a week.
Tom de Glanville - Adopted player 2024-5
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:46
Quote:JK7
As a Spurs fan, I'm having quite a week.
Same, my friend!!!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:46
Quote:JK7
As a Spurs fan, I'm having quite a week.
Jeez JK7 you must have been through some despairing moments over the last few years
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:48
I wonder what Goode thinks about the potential red card…
That sound you can hear is my eyes rolling to the back of my head.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
That sound you can hear is my eyes rolling to the back of my head.
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Pulteneyfan (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:49
First time I’ve watched Premier Sports …and I suddenly appreciate TNT sports … what a weapon Andy Goode is.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: JK7 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:49
Quote:Toast and MarmiteQuote:JK7
As a Spurs fan, I'm having quite a week.
Jeez JK7 you must have been through some despairing moments over the last few years
17 years, both teams!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 21:50
Yipee!
2 down...
But OMG, coverage is dire
2 down...
But OMG, coverage is dire
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 22:04
I think I might go with S4C tomorrow
Yes, I know there's no English language option...
What a result. Let's hope Northampton get this feeling tomorrow
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Yes, I know there's no English language option...
What a result. Let's hope Northampton get this feeling tomorrow
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 22:37
Quote:Toast and Marmite
Butt has had ham hands all evening
No he hasn't, he had a great game. Weird thing to say
Big Joe had to be close to MoM. No arguments with Ben getting but JC was immense in both attack and defence
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 22:48
Quote:JK7
Wonder if Ted went off instead of Sam because they think Sam might not be available again for a while, so less point in giving him a breather.
Think there may have been a element of that but ted had one boot and sock off at the end with a bit of a hobble going on?
Hopefully fine by the prem semi.
Whilst bringing bayliss into the squad if sam is banned is a v luxurious position to be on he would be missed- been in beast mode recently.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 22:50
O'Neills in Winchester had one redeeming feature tonight... thoroughly enjoyed that. The call on Sam was tight but I suspect we win it anyway. A very controlled, dominant performance. Very JVG. Despite screaming at the pub telly throughout, my reaction at the final whistle was weirdly calm. I expected us to win tonight. Bring on the play offs. Enjoy every minute of tonight but there's work to do - and this squad is ready for it.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 22:57
Need to find out what KC Tigers had for Chessum! Reckon there might be enough mitigation to mean it goes no further. He is bending. There is a change of direction. It’s just a high impact collision, which isn’t an excuse, but I’ve seen more deliberate and worse acts.
Anyway. Not for tonight. We’ve done the double. Unbelievable.
Just a word for Quinn Roux. What a player. What a talisman. 80 minutes of incredible effort again tonight. Does all the bits a 4 should do and more allowing Finn and Ben to run the show and Miles and Sam and Alfie etc to charge about on the front foot. He’s awesome and our best heavy lock since Grewcock (and I include Attwood). Hugely deserved winners medal for an unsung hero- and he’d perhaps even be my Forward of the Season tomorrow night, too.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Anyway. Not for tonight. We’ve done the double. Unbelievable.
Just a word for Quinn Roux. What a player. What a talisman. 80 minutes of incredible effort again tonight. Does all the bits a 4 should do and more allowing Finn and Ben to run the show and Miles and Sam and Alfie etc to charge about on the front foot. He’s awesome and our best heavy lock since Grewcock (and I include Attwood). Hugely deserved winners medal for an unsung hero- and he’d perhaps even be my Forward of the Season tomorrow night, too.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 23:15
Very odd evening, only 37,000 in the stadium. completely different vibe to the Bristol game.
I suspect that nearly all the French supporters were not from Lyon, I spoke to a few from Toulon, Bordeaux, Portugal, so I think that perhaps 30,000 were from Bath.
Ben Spencer had relatives in the crowd near us and I overheard him saying how relieved he was to win. JvG sat on the 22 for about 5 full minutes soaking it all up.
For me it was a very nervy performance, Will Muir's card was so untypical, and SU looked like he was on some sort of vendetta, if we get to the final I hope this game settles them down. Very physical as well but I don't think there were any injuries,
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I suspect that nearly all the French supporters were not from Lyon, I spoke to a few from Toulon, Bordeaux, Portugal, so I think that perhaps 30,000 were from Bath.
Ben Spencer had relatives in the crowd near us and I overheard him saying how relieved he was to win. JvG sat on the 22 for about 5 full minutes soaking it all up.
For me it was a very nervy performance, Will Muir's card was so untypical, and SU looked like he was on some sort of vendetta, if we get to the final I hope this game settles them down. Very physical as well but I don't think there were any injuries,
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 23:22
Quote:Dorset Boy
Goode is so not good. Hopefully he'll eat his mic at HT
Tough half for Hollie but she's done well and I think got the calls right
I think she’s great. Maybe the Underhill decision was thankfully dubious but she did have some dodgy advice. Otherwise she seems to be spot on.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 23:33
Winning these two cups is a notable achievement but it’s a bit like West Ham winning the Europa Conference & is insignificant compared to winning the Premiership Final. We have to be careful to avoid reckless actions. That wasn’t the case tonight & we could so easily have had two red cards. As it is we face a ban to a hugely important player.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 23:36
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:Dorset Boy
Goode is so not good. Hopefully he'll eat his mic at HT
Tough half for Hollie but she's done well and I think got the calls right
I think she’s great. Maybe the Underhill decision was thankfully dubious but she did have some dodgy advice. Otherwise she seems to be spot on.
I liked Hollie Davidson's interpretation of the head contact and collision on the air and I actually think Rugby is better spectacle if you don't treat millisecond moments as worthy of the ultimate sanction.
I know there's little skin in the game for a citing officer and it is easy to refer but I hope European Rugby back up her decision making. Because, honestly, it would be better for the game.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: nigewing (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 23:42
Dominant performance with Lyon looking cream crackered even during YC periods. We played well & looked in control. Bench lifted the tempo too. Mind you Spencer got the ball away so quickly all game he pulled Lyon’s defence out of shape constantly. A pleasure to watch our excellent team, many of whom are home grown talent 👍
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 23/05/2025 23:45
That was fun. I think Bath came prepared for a much more intense battle than Lyon provided. Still many squandered chances but the intensity was definitely cup final level.
I liked that we displayed multiple ways of playing the game and used them at the right time. Could do with sorting out the pick and drive from 5m out though - still too many held up.
Rally chuffed for the players and the joy from everyone - from starter to bench to just travelling. And chuffed for Johann and the coaches and staff beyond.
Hopefully on to something bigger.
I liked that we displayed multiple ways of playing the game and used them at the right time. Could do with sorting out the pick and drive from 5m out though - still too many held up.
Rally chuffed for the players and the joy from everyone - from starter to bench to just travelling. And chuffed for Johann and the coaches and staff beyond.
Hopefully on to something bigger.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: theredseat (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 00:42
Quote:dr.bath1865
Need to find out what KC Tigers had for Chessum! Reckon there might be enough mitigation to mean it goes no further. He is bending. There is a change of direction. It’s just a high impact collision, which isn’t an excuse, but I’ve seen more deliberate and worse acts.
Anyway. Not for tonight. We’ve done the double. Unbelievable.
Just a word for Quinn Roux. What a player. What a talisman. 80 minutes of incredible effort again tonight. Does all the bits a 4 should do and more allowing Finn and Ben to run the show and Miles and Sam and Alfie etc to charge about on the front foot. He’s awesome and our best heavy lock since Grewcock (and I include Attwood). Hugely deserved winners medal for an unsung hero- and he’d perhaps even be my Forward of the Season tomorrow night, too.
Couldn’t agree more on Roux. Hasn’t had a single game below a 6/10 all season and empties the tank every week doing the dirty work to set a platform for the team. He’d be in the hat for player of the year for me and sort of goes to show how under the radar he is that the club didn’t shortlist him for the supporters award.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Francis Allen (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 00:48
I echo Dr. Bath's comment about Quinn Roux, rapidly becoming my player of the season, so consistent, it was lovely seeing him with the cup in his hands, he really appeared to be enjoying himself, £20 for my seat was a bargain and despite the poor choice of beers well worth the trip.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 01:33
Just watched the match. Well done, boys. It was genuinely never in doubt after the first 5 minutes. I am not sure how we managed to play virtually no attacking rugby to speak of and win by 25 points but we successfully played a contained, controlled, territory based game. And that should worry everyone else because we've shown over the season that we can create as well. Titles are won by that kind of variety.
And now on to greater challenges...
My MotM - Sam Underhill. In a game of little creativity, the destroyers decide and Sam basically disrupted everything Lyon tried to do. It was a masterclass. You can argue he was fortunate not to be sent off but he grasped his luck with both hands and shaped the match.
A word for the commentators. If you didn't have the same comms team as me, you were lucky. Martin Gillingham was dull, Banners was non-committal and Andy Goode was an absolute disgrace. He spent 60 minutes whining that Sam Underhill should have been sent off and then started dissing the Challenge Cup as some kind consolation prize. As well as adding no worthwhile analysis of the game as it was happening at all. I genuinely hope we don't hear from him again.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:24:02:31:04 by joethefanatic.
And now on to greater challenges...
My MotM - Sam Underhill. In a game of little creativity, the destroyers decide and Sam basically disrupted everything Lyon tried to do. It was a masterclass. You can argue he was fortunate not to be sent off but he grasped his luck with both hands and shaped the match.
A word for the commentators. If you didn't have the same comms team as me, you were lucky. Martin Gillingham was dull, Banners was non-committal and Andy Goode was an absolute disgrace. He spent 60 minutes whining that Sam Underhill should have been sent off and then started dissing the Challenge Cup as some kind consolation prize. As well as adding no worthwhile analysis of the game as it was happening at all. I genuinely hope we don't hear from him again.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:24:02:31:04 by joethefanatic.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Toast and Marmite (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 06:22
Quote:joethefanatic
A word for the commentators. If you didn't have the same comms team as me, you were lucky. Martin Gillingham was dull, Banners was non-committal and Andy Goode was an absolute disgrace.
Agreed on all of this.
Banners was an odd one, I have heard him before and he has previously given excellent technical insight into what teams are trying to achieve ,particularly with attacking patterns. Whether he was asked to do a different role I am not sure, or whether he was just pulled down into the general poor level of everyone else!
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: rainbow (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 07:02
Echo joethefanatics observatioon of Andy Goode , whilst i wouldn't have been surprised if S U had been red carded Goode just went on and on finally letting his petticoat show with his comment about Bath not winning the senior cup. Congratulations to Bath you never quite now what you are up against with an outfit not from your league come the playoff game they will know all about the opposition i will be very surprised if any of them play next week in what will be a dead rubber.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 07:35
They do have to work out a more effective way of getting over the whitewash when we are camped beyond the 5 metre line with total dominance. Exeter had a far higher return from those moments I seem to recall. Shouldn’t complain though, winning both of these lesser cups on the way to the big one, we hope, is no mean feat.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 07:50
Quote:Worth noting the law change that was brought in specifically to reduce the effectiveness of pick-and-go from <5m outBath Hammer
They do have to work out a more effective way of getting over the whitewash when we are camped beyond the 5 metre line with total dominance. Exeter had a far higher return from those moments I seem to recall.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 08:12
Fun day in Cardiff with so many Bath fans there, absolutely delighted with the win. As usual it was stressful watching Bath, wonder if the weight of expectations affected the performance early on. Will be interesting watching the replay to see why Sam didn’t see red.
Will have to play so much better to win the big one, hopefully we’ve got 2 big performances left in us to turn a good season into a great one.
Will have to play so much better to win the big one, hopefully we’ve got 2 big performances left in us to turn a good season into a great one.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 08:41
Andy Goode definitely hadn’t read Mike Brown’s retirement letter!!
‘To everyone with a significant voice in the game…
Media figures, pundits, former players, commentators, I urge you to continue helping shift the negative narrative around rugby. Let’s talk more about the brilliant action, the big hits, the electric tries, the unbelievable skill, the fierce rivalries, and the amazing characters who make our game special. Rugby is full of passion, drama, and world-class athletes giving their all. By celebrating what makes our sport great, we can inspire the next generation, bring more fans through the gates, grow the game and remind everyone why we fell in love with it in the first place.’
EPCR lose £8m on TV deal and end up with that rubbish production!
I thought it was a red card for SU and if it is deemed a lenient decision by the officials then the Citing Officer and Disciplinary hearing will deal with it, it doesn’t need mentioning every time SU was near the ball in the second half!!
I bet EPCR were delighted by their TV hosts undermining the Challenge Cup Competition!!
‘To everyone with a significant voice in the game…
Media figures, pundits, former players, commentators, I urge you to continue helping shift the negative narrative around rugby. Let’s talk more about the brilliant action, the big hits, the electric tries, the unbelievable skill, the fierce rivalries, and the amazing characters who make our game special. Rugby is full of passion, drama, and world-class athletes giving their all. By celebrating what makes our sport great, we can inspire the next generation, bring more fans through the gates, grow the game and remind everyone why we fell in love with it in the first place.’
EPCR lose £8m on TV deal and end up with that rubbish production!
I thought it was a red card for SU and if it is deemed a lenient decision by the officials then the Citing Officer and Disciplinary hearing will deal with it, it doesn’t need mentioning every time SU was near the ball in the second half!!
I bet EPCR were delighted by their TV hosts undermining the Challenge Cup Competition!!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 08:50
Quote:Bath Hammer
They do have to work out a more effective way of getting over the whitewash when we are camped beyond the 5 metre line with total dominance. Exeter had a far higher return from those moments I seem to recall. Shouldn’t complain though, winning both of these lesser cups on the way to the big one, we hope, is no mean feat.
The rules have changed since Exeters dominance from 5 metres out Dunny scored a great try showing incredible power as did Beno. The Ojomo score also from 5 metres out due to a superb pass from Spencer and finished brilliantly.
Well done everyone at the club, the intensity was through the roof . Spencer and Finn controlled the game and probably Big Joe’s finest hour in a Bath shirt. So lucky to to have this Coaching team and this squad. The Bath support sounded very loud.
Used nearly all my data watching the game from France.
Just a word about the Commentary and pundit team echo what has been said about Andy Goode. Think he’s a better pundit than commentator and he was like a stuck clock.
I thought Chris Robshaw spoke really well and hats off to the the female presenter who really knew her stuff and stood up the the petulant Dallaglio question to JVG about Underhill’s non red card
Widcombe Garçon
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:24:19:31:26 by Widcombe boy.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 09:23
Quote:Widcombe boy
I thought Chris Robshaw spoke really well and hats off the the female presenter who really knew her stuff and stood up the the petulant Dallaglio question to JVG about Underhills non red card
100% I’m a big fan of Sara Elgin & had never come across this female presenter but she knew her stuff & stood up really well to the dominant personalities alongside her.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 09:25
Didn't have PS for obvious reasons but this is up on YouTube a post match interview with Alfie, if that is the standard of presentation I'm not surprised by the comments about PS.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 09:30
Robshaw was very good.
Female was Claire Thomas, who I can find very annoying on TNT as a commentator as she tends to have ‘Verbal Diarrhoea’ probably due to her background in Radio, but she seemed better as the presenter yesterday evening.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:24:09:43:27 by tigersimon.
Female was Claire Thomas, who I can find very annoying on TNT as a commentator as she tends to have ‘Verbal Diarrhoea’ probably due to her background in Radio, but she seemed better as the presenter yesterday evening.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:24:09:43:27 by tigersimon.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 09:43
Dallaglio shouldn’t be anywhere near Bath games, he makes no effort to hide his dislike for the club and is never impartial. Has he ever made a positive comment about Bath?
The coverage of Top 14 games on Premier Sports isn’t too bad, generally informative but sometimes a little dull.
The coverage of Top 14 games on Premier Sports isn’t too bad, generally informative but sometimes a little dull.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 09:56
Was at the game so not seen the coverage but Goode's probably still smarting from selfishly blowing that overlap at the Crisp Bowl when they had a 3 on 1 overlap in some semi of yesteryear. Really pleased with the win but was like the Tigers game - error strewn yet won comfortably. No bias involved but glad Sam saw yellow. He's running across to make a tackle and hit him before he was set due to the rapid change in the player's direction. A Lyon player's high hit was similarly and correctly (IMHO) seen as not worth over-reacting to. Thought they were trying too hard in the first half when calmer heads needed but understandable. One query for those who know. Dunny's tap and goes... are they legit as he never seems to pick the ball up after the tap and if that's not allowed I hope it's not picked up at a critical moment.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:24:09:59:38 by TomReagan.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:24:09:59:38 by TomReagan.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 10:05
Quote:TomReagan
One query for those who know. Dunny's tap and goes... are they legit as he never seems to pick the ball up after the tap and if that's not allowed I hope it's not picked up at a critical moment.
No, they are not Tom and I emailed the club about this a while ago without response.
KICK- Definition. Law Book Page 6 A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee .a kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand or along the ground. World rugby passport
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 10:28
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:TomReagan
One query for those who know. Dunny's tap and goes... are they legit as he never seems to pick the ball up after the tap and if that's not allowed I hope it's not picked up at a critical moment.
No, they are not Tom and I emailed the club about this a while ago without response.
KICK- Definition. Law Book Page 6 A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee .a kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand or along the ground. World rugby passport
Davidson specifically mentioned it to Dunn so I suspect it did move the ball a visible distance it was just a very small visible distance.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 10:43
Quote:He's been doing it all season; and has been TMO checked a few times, and always green lit.TomReagan
One query for those who know. Dunny's tap and goes... are they legit as he never seems to pick the ball up after the tap and if that's not allowed I hope it's not picked up at a critical moment.
I presume that it's one of those things that he gets cleared with the ref beforehand.
The ball has to leave his hand before hitting his boot, and leave his boot before he regathers - if he drops it 1 inch, and regathers, then it's legal; even if it's not how we were taught at school.
Fans at the ground will be too far away to tell if he drops it, and TV cameras basically never have a clear view - at ground level there are players in the way, from high are zoomed out too much to really see.
Quote:Given that he's been checked by TMOs, and has had talks about it with ref.s - I'll take their word for it.shipwrecked
No, they are not Tom and I emailed the club about this a while ago without response.
Quote:"visible distance" not "visible to internet warriors"shipwrecked
KICK- Definition. Law Book Page 6 A kick is made by hitting the ball with any part of the leg or foot except the heel, from the toe to the knee but not including the knee .a kick must move the ball a visible distance out of the hand or along the ground.
1 inch would be easily visible to those around him, but unseen from any fan.
As would half an inch.
1mm would fulfill the legal criteria, but almost certainly not "paint the right picture" to the ref
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:24:10:46:35 by Which Tyler.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 11:01
Quote:shipwrecked
Not for the weak hearted! Bath support here drowns out the Marseilles every time.
Lyon support here have consoled themselves to losing I just hope they are right.
I fully expect a surge from Barbeary TDT etc at about 60 mins.
Thought the crowd would be bigger!
They were singing La Marseilles? Didn’t hear a peep from them in L31.
J
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: nigewing (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 11:06
Not much mention of Finn’s excellent goal kicking & good decisions to take 3 points to keep scoreboard ticking over. Kept scoreboard pressure on Lyon all game.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 11:07
Quote:ChippenhamRomanQuote:shipwrecked
Not for the weak hearted! Bath support here drowns out the Marseilles every time.
Lyon support here have consoled themselves to losing I just hope they are right.
I fully expect a surge from Barbeary TDT etc at about 60 mins.
Thought the crowd would be bigger!
They were singing La Marseilles? Didn’t hear a peep from them in L31.
J
Where is L31? It was drowned by chants of 'Come on you Bath' by a vociferous group on the try line! Did you see many Lyon supporters?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 11:27
There were a few Lyon supporters at the game but not many. All you could here were Bath fans for the whole match.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Le marseillais (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 11:28
Quote:Congrats for your brilliant win.ChippenhamRomanQuote:shipwrecked
Not for the weak hearted! Bath support here drowns out the Marseilles every time.
Lyon support here have consoled themselves to losing I just hope they are right.
I fully expect a surge from Barbeary TDT etc at about 60 mins.
Thought the crowd would be bigger!
They were singing La Marseilles? Didn’t hear a peep from them in L31.
J
Absolutly deserved.
Just one point: our national anthem is "La Marseillaise", not Marseilles.
ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 11:37
Yes, sorry about that, typing on a phone with big fingers was tricky. If you are over for the Champion's cup final good luck but most will be supporting Northampton Saints on here.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Le marseillais (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 11:54
No worries mate.
Just hope a great finale.
Personally, I do appreciate the Saints also, and have very good friends in Northampton.
We say "que le meilleur gagne ! "
ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter
Just hope a great finale.
Personally, I do appreciate the Saints also, and have very good friends in Northampton.
We say "que le meilleur gagne ! "
ASM Clermont Auvergne supporter
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 12:30
Mais les meilleurs ont déjà gagné hier! 😉
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Susanne (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 14:29
Just caught up with JvG's post match interview on Premier Sport - what a diplomat that man is, fielding all those digs from Lol*! Post rugby career if he wants it in international relations. Meanwhile, I'm just so grateful we have him - brain the size of a planet.
*How does he get away with being so churlish? And watch his expression when he's on camera but doesn't realise it, when he's planning what to say next.
*How does he get away with being so churlish? And watch his expression when he's on camera but doesn't realise it, when he's planning what to say next.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 15:02
Dreadful "analyst" should be binned
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 16:47
Not surprised at any of the digs from Dallaglio, he has no class.
Just watched replay of game and Goode demonstrated that he has no understanding of the laws of rugby and adds no value to commentary.
Just watched replay of game and Goode demonstrated that he has no understanding of the laws of rugby and adds no value to commentary.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hantssabre (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 16:52
He can’t get much lower than Premier Sports. Do they have coverage next season do we know?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Francis Allen (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 17:43
I was at the game so didn't suffer the poor tv presentation also wasn't aware of Tom's dodgy tap penalties, Sam's tackle was shown on the screens and was a heart in mouth moment but come on guy's lets put these negatives aside, wallow in the achievement and talk of the positives, We got the measure of Lyon, survived a few scary moments and enjoyed some excellent rugby with some fine performances. A lot of Bath fans there despite the ground only being half full the atmosphere was great. Travel by road and parking was trouble free, how did the trains go?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: TomReagan (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 19:45
Trains... Mussolini would have been impressed. They're well practised in getting people through and everyone just goes with it. A few extra Bath-bound trains apparently. The atmosphere in 'Champions' Village as good as you'd expect. Never been to a Euro finals weekend before but keen to ferry it over to Bilbao next May.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Punder (IP Logged)
Date: 24/05/2025 20:43
Quote:shipwrecked
M4 won't be too bad but it depends where you are parked, its getting to the M4 that's the rate determining step. The link road A4243 is the problem. Often jammed.
If your parking means you can get to the a470, (Also called Manor Way) thats probably easier.
Dear Reader,
The M4 was absolutely horrific.
Thankfully everything else went well.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 09:49
Quote:A.M 180
Let's hope we make the big final next year, when surely Andy Goode can not be commentator
More importantly - huge congrats to the boys and the coaching team. Things to learn from tonight but let your hair down at least. Big things on the horizon
A weekend in Bilbao, yes please!
J
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 09:53
Quote:Which TylerQuote:Worth noting the law change that was brought in specifically to reduce the effectiveness of pick-and-go from <5m outBath Hammer
They do have to work out a more effective way of getting over the whitewash when we are camped beyond the 5 metre line with total dominance. Exeter had a far higher return from those moments I seem to recall.
What’s the law change?
J
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 10:02
Quote:PunderQuote:shipwrecked
M4 won't be too bad but it depends where you are parked, its getting to the M4 that's the rate determining step. The link road A4243 is the problem. Often jammed.
If your parking means you can get to the a470, (Also called Manor Way) thats probably easier.
Dear Reader,
The M4 was absolutely horrific.
Thankfully everything else went well.
M4 was bad coming in. An absolute doddle coming home. Just over an hour to Bathford and then an extra half an hour to Derry Hill. Easy.
Next final I’m taking the day off and getting a hotel. Make a day of it. Had to wait until the kids had finished school. Meant we were stuck in the nonsense Bank Holiday, Half Term, Rush Hour, Cup Final traffic. Newport being particularly bad.
J
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 10:27
Quote:1. Limited pre-latching (only one player, and he has to make a proper effort to stay on his feet)ChippenhamRoman
What’s the law change?
2. Held up over the line = goal-line drop-out
RAEBURN SHIELD
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Punder (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 11:19
Quote:ChippenhamRoman
M4 was bad coming in. An absolute doddle coming home. Just over an hour to Bathford and then an extra half an hour to Derry Hill. Easy.
Next final I’m taking the day off and getting a hotel. Make a day of it. Had to wait until the kids had finished school. Meant we were stuck in the nonsense Bank Holiday, Half Term, Rush Hour, Cup Final traffic. Newport being particularly bad.
J
A nightmare coming in - bad at Chippenham, worse at Bristol and not much better at Newport which we ended up taking a tour of to avoid the motorway standstill.
Took over 4 hours from Winchester, happily like you we had a clear run back.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BeatsWorking (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 11:23
Anyone know when we might expect news on whether Underhill has been cited? Fingers crossed but...
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 11:45
Quote:BeatsWorking
Anyone know when we might expect news on whether Underhill has been cited? Fingers crossed but...
It seems that every pundit & casual observer is convinced he will so seems inevitable & we have to expect him to miss the climax of the season. Was Ewels let off what have might have been a citing?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 11:46
Did Holly Davidson make a mistake? Red mitigated to yellow. Davidson said "“There is head-on-head but we are seeing a change back inside from 15 (Niniashvili) so it is going to be a yellow card,”
Its side on not head on, late movement, can you bend lower at speed, two players in the tackle. Could be red but also could be yellow. It's about interpretation of the process isn't it?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Its side on not head on, late movement, can you bend lower at speed, two players in the tackle. Could be red but also could be yellow. It's about interpretation of the process isn't it?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 12:48
She explained her process clearly, some people will view it differently. If you look across both big games it's clear the refs were told to look for mitigation down on head contact.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BeatsWorking (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 12:56
Quote:Bath HammerQuote:BeatsWorking
Anyone know when we might expect news on whether Underhill has been cited? Fingers crossed but...
It seems that every pundit & casual observer is convinced he will so seems inevitable & we have to expect him to miss the climax of the season. Was Ewels let off what have might have been a citing?
Yes I think so. To be honest, I've slightly given up guessing what the outcomes of head on head collisions are. I do feel for the referees though, and I'm glad it's not me trying to make a split second decision even with TMO.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 13:20
It’s a shame that after a performance like that where we showed grit, flair, fitness, gameplan, teamwork and resilience to overcome a team that came to win and all we can talk about is Andy Goode and a decision where we get the rub of the green for a change. A fantastic performance from Bath, exactly the maturity needed to see it home for our first senior silverware in 17 years which is frankly amazing to witness after so many years of nearly or nowhere nearly. 3 mores games and hopefully we will celebrate a historic turnaround for the club and the start of a long purple patch.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: wetside (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 14:38
Quote:Rawce
It’s a shame that after a performance like that where we showed grit, flair, fitness, gameplan, teamwork and resilience to overcome a team that came to win and all we can talk about is Andy Goode and a decision where we get the rub of the green for a change. A fantastic performance from Bath, exactly the maturity needed to see it home for our first senior silverware in 17 years which is frankly amazing to witness after so many years of nearly or nowhere nearly. 3 mores games and hopefully we will celebrate a historic turnaround for the club and the start of a long purple patch.
+1. Ten times
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 25/05/2025 15:29
Agree Rawce and wetside.
As for the Underhill case itself- hasta has IMO nailed it. Citings can be up to 48 hours after the match. 43 of 48 have elapsed - I would be surprised if there is a citing now.
PG
As for the Underhill case itself- hasta has IMO nailed it. Citings can be up to 48 hours after the match. 43 of 48 have elapsed - I would be surprised if there is a citing now.
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 07:53
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 10:00
Awesome win on Friday and a good night out (once we had fought our way down the M4). Lyon a bit unlucky with the bounce on the night but Bath very good for the win. Woohoo!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 13:33
Quote:P G Tips
Agree Rawce and wetside.
As for the Underhill case itself- hasta has IMO nailed it. Citings can be up to 48 hours after the match. 43 of 48 have elapsed - I would be surprised if there is a citing now.
PG
I think if we get through tomorrow with no word on any hearing then happy days.
Not convinced we are in the clear yet.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 13:57
Charlie
A citing now is not out of the question, but would be most unusual.
From EPCR's own website:
CITING COMMISSIONERS
a) Citing Commissioners are appointed by EPCR for all Investec Champions Cup and EPCR Challenge Cup matches and shall be entitled to cite a player for any act or acts of Foul Play that in the Citing Commissioner’s opinion warranted a red card.
b) For such matches, clubs will not have the power to cite a player but may refer incidents to the Citing Commissioner within 26 hours of the start of the match.
c) The Citing Commissioner will have 50 hours from the start of the match to make a citing. In certain circumstances this deadline can be extended.
Interpretation: 26 & 50 hours respectively, refer to 24 hours and 48 hours after the end of the match. Both deadlines have disappeared, with nothing heard. There is no definition of "certain circumstances" but since the tackled player played on without undergoing an HIA, I think it unlikely that any new information should effect a change of heart.
I agree Sam was lucky - and he will now most likely be a subject of greater scrutiny - but I think he will be clear to play when we need him next.
PG
A citing now is not out of the question, but would be most unusual.
From EPCR's own website:
CITING COMMISSIONERS
a) Citing Commissioners are appointed by EPCR for all Investec Champions Cup and EPCR Challenge Cup matches and shall be entitled to cite a player for any act or acts of Foul Play that in the Citing Commissioner’s opinion warranted a red card.
b) For such matches, clubs will not have the power to cite a player but may refer incidents to the Citing Commissioner within 26 hours of the start of the match.
c) The Citing Commissioner will have 50 hours from the start of the match to make a citing. In certain circumstances this deadline can be extended.
Interpretation: 26 & 50 hours respectively, refer to 24 hours and 48 hours after the end of the match. Both deadlines have disappeared, with nothing heard. There is no definition of "certain circumstances" but since the tackled player played on without undergoing an HIA, I think it unlikely that any new information should effect a change of heart.
I agree Sam was lucky - and he will now most likely be a subject of greater scrutiny - but I think he will be clear to play when we need him next.
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 14:56
Not a ref but I believe that despite what Mr Goode says I'd suggest that Underhill meets the criteria for a passive tackle and not those of a dynamic tackle to therefore a red card isn't appropriate.
In order to qualify as a “Passive” tackle, the HCP provides the following criteria:[28] Source
Tackler feet planted and body absorbs/falls backwards
Zero forward movement into the ball carrier
Furthermore, Niniashvili step back inside into SU to avoid Will Muir's tackle at the last moment. Further mitigation. Video in this link
For a citing suggesting the yellow should be red you would have to argue a dynamic tackle was occurring, there is no upward or backward movement of the Lyon 15.
Whatever people think about how the incident looks you have to go by the HCP protocols.
In all these HCP incidents they are too often influenced by the commentators attitude at the time of the incident to my mind.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
In order to qualify as a “Passive” tackle, the HCP provides the following criteria:[28] Source
Tackler feet planted and body absorbs/falls backwards
Zero forward movement into the ball carrier
Furthermore, Niniashvili step back inside into SU to avoid Will Muir's tackle at the last moment. Further mitigation. Video in this link
For a citing suggesting the yellow should be red you would have to argue a dynamic tackle was occurring, there is no upward or backward movement of the Lyon 15.
Whatever people think about how the incident looks you have to go by the HCP protocols.
In all these HCP incidents they are too often influenced by the commentators attitude at the time of the incident to my mind.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 14:59
Still a huge let off if Sam is in the clear!
Obviously everyone in the club understands the impact of a card in a final, but hope both yellows will sharpen the minds even further. Incredibly fine balance between ruthless intensity and a potential cardable offence
Obviously everyone in the club understands the impact of a card in a final, but hope both yellows will sharpen the minds even further. Incredibly fine balance between ruthless intensity and a potential cardable offence
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BeatsWorking (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 15:10
Quote:A.M 180
Still a huge let off if Sam is in the clear!
Obviously everyone in the club understands the impact of a card in a final, but hope both yellows will sharpen the minds even further. Incredibly fine balance between ruthless intensity and a potential cardable offence
Spot on, totally agree. Would be good for the soul not to have another debate on cards across the remainder of the season.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 16:44
Pgt- i get that the window has passed but my point being that he could have been cited within the 48/50 hours. We just know it yet.
Seems v hit and miss when fans find out about these things....
Fingers crossed he isn't cited but often see a tues hearing and sometimes info is not in the public domain until after the hearing.
Seems v hit and miss when fans find out about these things....
Fingers crossed he isn't cited but often see a tues hearing and sometimes info is not in the public domain until after the hearing.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 19:20
Underhill cited.
“ EPCR has received a citing complaint against the Bath Rugby flanker, Sam Underhill (No 7) following the EPCR Challenge Cup final match between Bath Rugby and Lyon Olympique Universitaire at the Principality Stadium on Friday,”
[x.com]
“ EPCR has received a citing complaint against the Bath Rugby flanker, Sam Underhill (No 7) following the EPCR Challenge Cup final match between Bath Rugby and Lyon Olympique Universitaire at the Principality Stadium on Friday,”
[x.com]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 19:55
And there we have it
Unfortunately, I don't think we'll have him at our disposal for the remainder of the season
Unfortunately, I don't think we'll have him at our disposal for the remainder of the season
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 20:00
I stand corrected. Odd that nearly a whole extra day has elapsed since the window closed.
Let’s hope his hearing agrees with the ref interpretation - as was the case with Chessum.
If not, Pepper or Reid will step up.
PG
Let’s hope his hearing agrees with the ref interpretation - as was the case with Chessum.
If not, Pepper or Reid will step up.
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Francis Allen (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 20:14
Hearing tomorrow. Not looking forward to the result nor the gloating from those calling for his head.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 20:30
Quote:P G Tips
I stand corrected. Odd that nearly a whole extra day has elapsed since the window closed.
Let’s hope his hearing agrees with the ref interpretation - as was the case with Chessum.
If not, Pepper or Reid will step up.
PG
Bank holiday I guess.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 20:42
Could be - but there were no bank holidays on the continent this weekend. Euro refs Head Office is in Geneva.
PG
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 21:19
Can't see the hearing going Sam's way sadly and it's likely to be season over.
Hope I am wrong , thankfully that happens alot!
He will be a big miss but bayliss very deserving of a place in the 23.
Hope I am wrong , thankfully that happens alot!
He will be a big miss but bayliss very deserving of a place in the 23.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 21:46
Charlie, I completely get that the incident is in the high or medium degree of danger but going by the most recent HCP in order for the incident to be a red card incident there needs to be a situation where there is NO mitigation. Mitigation is as follows.
The final stage of the analysis is whether there is any mitigation.
In this regard, the HCP lists the following as possible mitigating factors:
Sudden/significant drop in height or change in direction from ball carrier
A late change in dynamics due to another player in the contact area
An effort to wrap/bind and having no time to adjust
Passive tackler
Correct me if I'm wrong but at least 2 if not 3 of those mitigating factors apply don't they?
By the wording of the HCP it's red to yellow. If not can you or anyone explain why not. I think it meets the passive criteria however it looks.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
The final stage of the analysis is whether there is any mitigation.
In this regard, the HCP lists the following as possible mitigating factors:
Sudden/significant drop in height or change in direction from ball carrier
A late change in dynamics due to another player in the contact area
An effort to wrap/bind and having no time to adjust
Passive tackler
Correct me if I'm wrong but at least 2 if not 3 of those mitigating factors apply don't they?
By the wording of the HCP it's red to yellow. If not can you or anyone explain why not. I think it meets the passive criteria however it looks.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 22:08
I am not sure it's ticking any of those boxes tbh SW but hope they think it does.
Maybe sudden change of direction but no other players involved and if I was on the end of it I don't think I would say it was passive.
Prob an argument to say limited reaction time but counter argument would be whether he had any semblance of control and did that dictate lack of reaction time (no idea if that comes into it).
Interesting one for sure. Glad they are doing more to look at possible mitigation during the game. Should that carry over to citing? Same logic is presumably applied? Prefer to see a player banned after than a red card massively impacting a game but guess we can't have it all ways.
Fingers crossed for sam
Maybe sudden change of direction but no other players involved and if I was on the end of it I don't think I would say it was passive.
Prob an argument to say limited reaction time but counter argument would be whether he had any semblance of control and did that dictate lack of reaction time (no idea if that comes into it).
Interesting one for sure. Glad they are doing more to look at possible mitigation during the game. Should that carry over to citing? Same logic is presumably applied? Prefer to see a player banned after than a red card massively impacting a game but guess we can't have it all ways.
Fingers crossed for sam
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 22:18
There's high degree of danger. It's not passive.
However,
a. There's definitely a wrap.
b. There is a late change of direction.
c. He could be lower, but he's not totally upright, his head is below the Lyon 15's.
d. There is another player in the contact area
I suspect it depends on how much b and d you think impact it. I think it's mostly that the force was so much everyone 'feels' like it should be red. My suspicion is the late change toward Sam costs him 1/3rd second which is the difference between a sternum tackle and hitting his head.
I can see this going either way.
However,
a. There's definitely a wrap.
b. There is a late change of direction.
c. He could be lower, but he's not totally upright, his head is below the Lyon 15's.
d. There is another player in the contact area
I suspect it depends on how much b and d you think impact it. I think it's mostly that the force was so much everyone 'feels' like it should be red. My suspicion is the late change toward Sam costs him 1/3rd second which is the difference between a sternum tackle and hitting his head.
I can see this going either way.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 22:21
I agree it’s not passive in impact Charlie but by definition in the HCP it’s passive in that there is no forward or upward movement. So technically it hits that definition.
Holly Davidson states on the pitch that there is late movement ( Ninashvilli avoiding Muirs tackle) as in the video.
I’ve not heard or seen the comments on the TV coverage but I suspect they exacerbate the situation.
It’s a bit of a lottery but.by the letter of the HCP I think there is mitigation.
We’ll see in due course.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Holly Davidson states on the pitch that there is late movement ( Ninashvilli avoiding Muirs tackle) as in the video.
I’ve not heard or seen the comments on the TV coverage but I suspect they exacerbate the situation.
It’s a bit of a lottery but.by the letter of the HCP I think there is mitigation.
We’ll see in due course.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 22:46
Quote:hasta
There's high degree of danger. It's not passive.
I can see this going either way.
It can be high degree of danger AND Passive in the definition though Hasta.
There is no forward or upward motion as they are both chasing backwards or sideways at worst.
It can go either way but there has to be no mitigation for that to happen so its not just the passive issue anyway as you point out there are other players involved.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 22:48
It's not a passive tackle though. Sam drives forward into him and wraps. Still, your other points stand.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 26/05/2025 23:05
Felt at the time it was a red card and the fact Underhill has been cited confirms this feeling.
End of the season for Underhill and suspect he’s going to get a lengthy ban as it’s not his first red card for a high tackle this season. Shame for him and Bath.
End of the season for Underhill and suspect he’s going to get a lengthy ban as it’s not his first red card for a high tackle this season. Shame for him and Bath.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 06:04
The one thing that can ruin our season are sending offs & that risk has to be minimised. Maybe insufficient consideration has been given to this. As well as Underhill, Will Muir could have red carded. Charlie Ewels was fortunate against Leicester as well. It’s disappointing that just having come back from a ban & attending tackle school Underhill didn’t get lower on this occasion. I hope a lesson will be learnt for the rest of the season otherwise you can see it happening again.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 06:27
Quote:Bath Hammer
The one thing that can ruin our season are sending offs & that risk has to be minimised. Maybe insufficient consideration has been given to this. As well as Underhill, Will Muir could have red carded. Charlie Ewels was fortunate against Leicester as well. It’s disappointing that just having come back from a ban & attending tackle school Underhill didn’t get lower on this occasion. I hope a lesson will be learnt for the rest of the season otherwise you can see it happening again.
On the upside, we're not exactly short of options in the back row.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 07:58
Quote:OutsideBath
Felt at the time it was a red card and the fact Underhill has been cited confirms this feeling.
End of the season for Underhill and suspect he’s going to get a lengthy ban as it’s not his first red card for a high tackle this season. Shame for him and Bath.
I have to agree with this - it's one of the tackles that we are trying to get out of the game. I thought it was a red when it happened and nothing I have seen since has made me change my mind on this.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Charlieboa1 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 08:09
Any idea on a hearing time? Often tues evenings I think?
Assume they look at the incident on its own merit and his previous only comes into play in terms of any potential downgrading of the punishment I.e. he has prob used up his 'tackle school' life?
Assume they look at the incident on its own merit and his previous only comes into play in terms of any potential downgrading of the punishment I.e. he has prob used up his 'tackle school' life?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 08:42
Quote:While this is true, lose say, Pepper in the semi-final and our depth doesn't look so goodjoethefanaticQuote:Bath Hammer
The one thing that can ruin our season are sending offs & that risk has to be minimised. Maybe insufficient consideration has been given to this. As well as Underhill, Will Muir could have red carded. Charlie Ewels was fortunate against Leicester as well. It’s disappointing that just having come back from a ban & attending tackle school Underhill didn’t get lower on this occasion. I hope a lesson will be learnt for the rest of the season otherwise you can see it happening again.
On the upside, we're not exactly short of options in the back row.
It's frustrating as we're losing a bit of a test match player, but do think Guy is going to step up to the plate in a big way now
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 09:09
All this assumes our opposition battling their way to the final are totally injury free. This I think is highly unlikely.
In reality its all about the fly halves for me take away the 10 Sale without Ford. Tigers without Pollard, Bristol without McGinty or Bath without Russell none of those win the Prem. Though Bath have the best black horse 10 in Donoghue!
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
In reality its all about the fly halves for me take away the 10 Sale without Ford. Tigers without Pollard, Bristol without McGinty or Bath without Russell none of those win the Prem. Though Bath have the best black horse 10 in Donoghue!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 09:26
SW,
I seem to remember Shilcock doing some damage to Bath!! 🤣
I seem to remember Shilcock doing some damage to Bath!! 🤣
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Widcombe boy (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 09:36
Quote:Yes I think he had a point to prove 😔tigersimon
SW,
I seem to remember Shilcock doing some damage to Bath!! 🤣
Widcombe Garçon
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 09:36
I remain hopeful that Sam will be OK - at the end of the day the matter was fully reviewed by the 4 officials at the time with all the angles available and mitigation was established whatever pundits and some feel - Yes he was upright and it was a forceful hit - however he did wrap and there is definitely a sudden and late change by 15 which the officials all agreed mitigated down to a yellow card.
The officials will given their verdict which I am sure will back up their decision on the day - Sam immediately apologised to the player. Despite the citing I think the panel have to be careful with their judgement given the risk of totally undermining the matchday officials.
Maybe wishful thinking.
The officials will given their verdict which I am sure will back up their decision on the day - Sam immediately apologised to the player. Despite the citing I think the panel have to be careful with their judgement given the risk of totally undermining the matchday officials.
Maybe wishful thinking.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 09:47
And being seen to bow to media pressure Ali?
PG
PG
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 09:54
Quote:tigersimon
SW,
I seem to remember Shilcock doing some damage to Bath!! 🤣
Yes, 'dropsy chip' malfunction (he was with Bath as well remember) due to hacking by the 'Scattered Spider' cyber group. Firewall now back up.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 09:59
Sadly I think it is wishful. By the standards that we've set out we've given so many reds for this sort of thing. The only hope I can see is the panel want to agree with and support the ref.
A couple we've discussed that spring to mind:
- Ringrose in the 6N
- Obano in the final last year
If those two are red, and plenty on here agreed they were (I don't), then this is red. Sam drops his height a bit, but no more than so many have and still got red. There was some late movement, but again, there is in so many cases and we still see red.
Not the best photo I've seen but it captures it:
These reds aren't changing behaviour. They aren't working but for a lenient decision by the ref it could have ruined our final, it might well go to ruin our season. Moreover I can hardly remember an occasion where the player was subbed or even sent for an HIA. I'm coming around to the idea that, surely, if a ref sees this as a high force, high degree of danger they must, for the safety of the player involved, send them for an HIA. If they don't believe they don't need an HIA then it isn't that dangerous. I don't like the idea of codifying that a head contact red MUST require a HIA, but it is the logical extension of what the ref is saying.
I've said we're getting this wrong, and said what I'd do, give each player a space they need to keep their head in. The carrier can't bring their head down, the tackler can't stay high. So what does that mean in this case? It's a difficult challenge, this one is right on the edge. Looking at the Bath player in the background. The French player's head is at armpit height, bit dodgy but ok. Sam's head is at sternum height, bit high but ok. So, neither player is doing much wrong, its a rugby incident, play on. Maybe penalize one of them, no card, just a pen, probably Sam, he could be a bit lower. Now, if Sam does it again, gets pinged again, then he's looking at repeat offences and maybe the yellow comes out. We want Sam to drop another inch or so, that will do it.
A couple we've discussed that spring to mind:
- Ringrose in the 6N
- Obano in the final last year
If those two are red, and plenty on here agreed they were (I don't), then this is red. Sam drops his height a bit, but no more than so many have and still got red. There was some late movement, but again, there is in so many cases and we still see red.
Not the best photo I've seen but it captures it:
These reds aren't changing behaviour. They aren't working but for a lenient decision by the ref it could have ruined our final, it might well go to ruin our season. Moreover I can hardly remember an occasion where the player was subbed or even sent for an HIA. I'm coming around to the idea that, surely, if a ref sees this as a high force, high degree of danger they must, for the safety of the player involved, send them for an HIA. If they don't believe they don't need an HIA then it isn't that dangerous. I don't like the idea of codifying that a head contact red MUST require a HIA, but it is the logical extension of what the ref is saying.
I've said we're getting this wrong, and said what I'd do, give each player a space they need to keep their head in. The carrier can't bring their head down, the tackler can't stay high. So what does that mean in this case? It's a difficult challenge, this one is right on the edge. Looking at the Bath player in the background. The French player's head is at armpit height, bit dodgy but ok. Sam's head is at sternum height, bit high but ok. So, neither player is doing much wrong, its a rugby incident, play on. Maybe penalize one of them, no card, just a pen, probably Sam, he could be a bit lower. Now, if Sam does it again, gets pinged again, then he's looking at repeat offences and maybe the yellow comes out. We want Sam to drop another inch or so, that will do it.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 11:39
It was a red for me from the speed of impact. If we had been on the receiving end, we would have been dripping like the proverbial malfunctioning fridge. I don’t think that we would have lost having shut them out for ~5 minutes with 2 men down.
I don’t get the spectacle argument surrounding big decisions early on in important games. It’s either safe or not. Don’t put the refs in the position to make the decision. It was the same for Sam Warburton.
I don’t get the spectacle argument surrounding big decisions early on in important games. It’s either safe or not. Don’t put the refs in the position to make the decision. It was the same for Sam Warburton.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 11:53
Nobody is arguing that the speed of impact makes it high degre of danger but as the HCP is laid out the final part of the procedure is mitigation. If there is any it get scaled down to yellow.
By the letter of the law and the current definitions it’s red to yellow.
These definitions evolve as does the procedure as potential loop holes emerge. It wouldn’t surprise me if this incident triggered another iteration of the procedure as these incidents set precedents. That’s how legal procedures develop.
The problem is that TV and the press love controversy so it becomes a big talking point.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
By the letter of the law and the current definitions it’s red to yellow.
These definitions evolve as does the procedure as potential loop holes emerge. It wouldn’t surprise me if this incident triggered another iteration of the procedure as these incidents set precedents. That’s how legal procedures develop.
The problem is that TV and the press love controversy so it becomes a big talking point.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 11:56
Yes, given how reds are currently given out, I would be livid if I were Lyon.
The thing is, as it stands, Sam doing exactly the same thing but the French player moving slightly different results in a legal and apparently safe tackle. So, with the laws as they are, what do you expect Sam to do? How does he not put the ref in that situation?
We know the answer, he has to go a few inches lower, but he has to do it every single time. Not just the occasions when something out of his control rapidly changes and he can't compensate. That means you've got to penalize that height of tackle, not the fact that, by chance, it lead to head contact. 9 times out of 10 it doesn't lead to head contact so players keep on doing it. If its ever legal for him to be tackling at that height, and it carries an advantage to tackle at that height, players will carry on doing it. We've seen this, behaviour isn't changing, I'm here saying it again.
So we penalize every attempt at a tackle above the nominal height of the sternum (still prefer armpits). They'll stop tackling at that height. We've almost solve the problem at a stroke and without cards. The little wrinkle is that attacking players drop their height into that area, that's the only way head on head contact can happen now. Well, penalize that as well. It's dangerous, if the tackler has got to a nominal tackle height it's the attacker crating the dangerous situation.
The thing is, as it stands, Sam doing exactly the same thing but the French player moving slightly different results in a legal and apparently safe tackle. So, with the laws as they are, what do you expect Sam to do? How does he not put the ref in that situation?
We know the answer, he has to go a few inches lower, but he has to do it every single time. Not just the occasions when something out of his control rapidly changes and he can't compensate. That means you've got to penalize that height of tackle, not the fact that, by chance, it lead to head contact. 9 times out of 10 it doesn't lead to head contact so players keep on doing it. If its ever legal for him to be tackling at that height, and it carries an advantage to tackle at that height, players will carry on doing it. We've seen this, behaviour isn't changing, I'm here saying it again.
So we penalize every attempt at a tackle above the nominal height of the sternum (still prefer armpits). They'll stop tackling at that height. We've almost solve the problem at a stroke and without cards. The little wrinkle is that attacking players drop their height into that area, that's the only way head on head contact can happen now. Well, penalize that as well. It's dangerous, if the tackler has got to a nominal tackle height it's the attacker crating the dangerous situation.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 12:00
I don't really see the mitigation?
In this regard, the HCP lists the following as possible mitigating factors:
Sudden/significant drop in height or change in direction from ball carrier
Nope, not by previous standards
A late change in dynamics due to another player in the contact area
Nope, not by previous standards, the change in direction of the French player is "quite early by comparison"
An effort to wrap/bind and having no time to adjust
I've only every seen this as used NOT to mitigate, I don't recall it ever happening as well he tried to wrap so yellow. Many reds would be yellow if that were the case. This is the "always illegal, no mitigation can be applied route."
Passive tackler
Nope, certainly not
Link if you anyone is interested
[www.tiktok.com]
In this regard, the HCP lists the following as possible mitigating factors:
Sudden/significant drop in height or change in direction from ball carrier
Nope, not by previous standards
A late change in dynamics due to another player in the contact area
Nope, not by previous standards, the change in direction of the French player is "quite early by comparison"
An effort to wrap/bind and having no time to adjust
I've only every seen this as used NOT to mitigate, I don't recall it ever happening as well he tried to wrap so yellow. Many reds would be yellow if that were the case. This is the "always illegal, no mitigation can be applied route."
Passive tackler
Nope, certainly not
Link if you anyone is interested
[www.tiktok.com]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 12:14
Dan, rugby players aren’t robots, it’s impossible to bend at the waist running flat out, in the same way as it’s not possible to pass to a team mate at pace without slowing down first.
The game was in the balance at that point and Sams only thought was tp prevent a try being scored. You take these big risks in finals and I would have been disappointed it he hadn’t gone 110%
Whatever law you impose there will always be head impacts the current laws has halved the number of incidents so it’s clearly working.
As time goes on those who have grown up with the new laws will improve it further.
If you watch the u20 games it’s noticeable how there are fewer head impacts, that’s not a coincidence in my view.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
The game was in the balance at that point and Sams only thought was tp prevent a try being scored. You take these big risks in finals and I would have been disappointed it he hadn’t gone 110%
Whatever law you impose there will always be head impacts the current laws has halved the number of incidents so it’s clearly working.
As time goes on those who have grown up with the new laws will improve it further.
If you watch the u20 games it’s noticeable how there are fewer head impacts, that’s not a coincidence in my view.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 12:21
The Beno red, if used for comparison, was given I recall because he went into the tackle with knees bent but around head height and then moved up in making contact head on head
As I see it, Sam doesn't do that and simply holds his position or even marginally goes downwards on contact
But, I'm no expert at all. All I hope for, is consistency, whatever means for Sam
As I see it, Sam doesn't do that and simply holds his position or even marginally goes downwards on contact
But, I'm no expert at all. All I hope for, is consistency, whatever means for Sam
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 12:50
Quote:Shipwrecked
Dan, rugby players aren’t robots, it’s impossible to bend at the waist running flat out, in the same way as it’s not possible to pass to a team mate at pace without slowing down first.
They are pro sportsmen, they are capable of a lot. I would say they can do both the things you're suggesting with, at most, a barely noticeable drop in speed. However, if you're correct, you're saying there's nothing Sam can do here. So why card him if there's no possible way of him changing his behaviour?
Quote:Shipwrecked
As time goes on those who have grown up with the new laws will improve it further.
um... no. Age grade players have been tackling below the armpits (now sternum) for as long as I can remember, the group that have currently come through have grown up with those laws and yet I see no evidence they've picked up they need to tackle below the armpits.
Quote:Shipwrecked
If you watch the u20 games it’s noticeable how there are fewer head impacts, that’s not a coincidence in my view.
Right, where they DO say the tackler has to be lower. I'm saying take that further and saying tackle up there, regardless of whether there was head contact could have lead to head contact and is potentially dangerous so illegal.
Quote:Shipwrecked
Whatever law you impose there will always be head impacts the current laws has halved the number of incidents so it’s clearly working.
You'd have to find some stats to back that up, it does feel like its happening any less. It might depend on what you mean by incidents, possibly it just means we're ignoring more incidents or not picking up on them.
There's always going to be a risk. However, the current laws mean that a legal tackle turns into a dangerous one through legal actions the tackler can't control.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 12:54
[i][/i]
Your pic shows Niniashvili avoiding Muir at impact and HD states this at the time.
You are reacting emotionally not factually. For a dynamic tackle to occur Niniashvili has to move backwards, that never happens, or there has to be upward movement, that never happens either.
Furthermore it also meets the absorbing criteria as DN ends up behind and above SU.
As I stated these boards can set precedents this is not similar to previous incidents as the direction of motion of both players is the same though SU is more lateral. The one aspect that might affect the decision is was the tackle reckless these judicial panels tend to ignore their own guidelines in these instances.
Question might also be if the referees were told to avoid red where possible in the final do they undermine HD at the hearing?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Quote:Dan Wiley
I don't really see the mitigation?
Your pic shows Niniashvili avoiding Muir at impact and HD states this at the time.
Quote:Dan Wiley
Passive tackler
Nope, certainly not
You are reacting emotionally not factually. For a dynamic tackle to occur Niniashvili has to move backwards, that never happens, or there has to be upward movement, that never happens either.
Furthermore it also meets the absorbing criteria as DN ends up behind and above SU.
As I stated these boards can set precedents this is not similar to previous incidents as the direction of motion of both players is the same though SU is more lateral. The one aspect that might affect the decision is was the tackle reckless these judicial panels tend to ignore their own guidelines in these instances.
Question might also be if the referees were told to avoid red where possible in the final do they undermine HD at the hearing?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:03
What are you talking about, doesn't move backwards(towards touch in this case I presume you mean)?
https://ibb.co/9HCV0qWZ
A fraction of a second later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:27:13:05:48 by Dan Wiley.
https://ibb.co/9HCV0qWZ
A fraction of a second later
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:27:13:05:48 by Dan Wiley.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:06
Quote:Shipwrecked
Whatever law you impose there will always be head impacts the current laws has halved the number of incidents so it’s clearly working.
Quote:Dan Wiley
You'd have to find some stats to back that up, it does feel like its happening any less. It might depend on what you mean by incidents, possibly it just means we're ignoring more incidents or not picking up on them.
By all means.
Researchers at Edinburgh University used video analysis to study tackles from 60 men's community matches in Scotland before the trial and during it, and found the law change resulted in a 45% reduction in head-on-head contact. Source
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:09
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:12
Quote:Shipwrecked
By all means.
Researchers at Edinburgh University used video analysis to study tackles from 60 men's community matches in Scotland before the trial and during it, and found the law change resulted in a 45% reduction in head-on-head contact. Source
Do you even read these things? This is about the grassroots game lower the height of the tackle, nothing to do with the pro game red carding everyone. Literally the first paragraph, in bold:
"Lowering the tackle height in men's rugby almost halved the rate of head collisions among players, a study at Edinburgh University has found."
I'm right behind bringing the height down, if anything my suggestion is just taking that idea further.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:18
Do we really need another full blown discussion on the merits of the rules surrounding head contact?
All that matters on this thread is if Sam is going to be banned or not and if he is for how long.
Personally I think he gets an extended ban and misses England summer tour and possibly the start of next season.
All that matters on this thread is if Sam is going to be banned or not and if he is for how long.
Personally I think he gets an extended ban and misses England summer tour and possibly the start of next season.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:25
Quote:Dan Wiley
What are you talking about, doesn't move backwards(towards touch in this case I presume you mean)?
https://ibb.co/9HCV0qWZ
A fraction of a second later
Basic physics Dan.
Its only possible for Niniashvili to move backwards if he meets and equal and opposite force. (plus a dyne or two). That's impossible if both players are moving in the same general direction Underhill is catching him up.
Let's see what the panel says anyway.
He moves sideway sure but the Law doesn't say that it says backwards.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:27
I disagree that's all that matters. However, we did have this conversation about a year ago, after Obano's card. We're still in the same situation in that head contact is still regular, these reds are still skewing games and our chances in the final are being impacted. Do none of those things bother you?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:41
Quote:Dan Wiley
I disagree that's all that matters. However, we did have this conversation about a year ago, after Obano's card. We're still in the same situation in that head contact is still regular, these reds are still skewing games and our chances in the final are being impacted. Do none of those things bother you?
No we didn't, I've not commented on that incident.
Head contact decreasing in the women's game as well but by less.
How about for a change you find evidence that supports your statement that its not working?
Last week world rugby declared a global trial for the 20 minute red card so they will no longer skew games.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:48
When is the panel?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:52
Having looked at it again - the Lyon captain comes over to Hollie Davidson he does not remostrate and demand SU is sent off he just states that there is a "High Degree of Danger" which Hollie Davidson clearly agrees with but then states that 15 changes his direction which gives mitigation and the the incident is dropped from the initial red card to yellow.
Hollie Davidson's explanation which is agreed by all officials, was taken after due consideration and she was clear and decisive in her explanation - at the end of the day these decisions are subjective - all officials will have a differing view - however Hollie Davidson was so clear with her explanation having followed all the correct protocol's so I think it will be hard to over rule her on field assessment, especially as the officials were there in the heat of battle and had a feeling for the game, replays always make things look a lot worse especially when slowed down.
I think it will set a really dangerous precedent given the officials have reviewed the incident and applied the protocols - to then challenge their perception of the incident - it would be different if the officials had missed something or did not follow the protocols and let us be clear the decision making is not outcome lead - however the 15 was straight up and involved in immediate play, which may well cause an unconscious bias towards downgrading the incident.
Hollie Davidson's explanation which is agreed by all officials, was taken after due consideration and she was clear and decisive in her explanation - at the end of the day these decisions are subjective - all officials will have a differing view - however Hollie Davidson was so clear with her explanation having followed all the correct protocol's so I think it will be hard to over rule her on field assessment, especially as the officials were there in the heat of battle and had a feeling for the game, replays always make things look a lot worse especially when slowed down.
I think it will set a really dangerous precedent given the officials have reviewed the incident and applied the protocols - to then challenge their perception of the incident - it would be different if the officials had missed something or did not follow the protocols and let us be clear the decision making is not outcome lead - however the 15 was straight up and involved in immediate play, which may well cause an unconscious bias towards downgrading the incident.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:54
Quote:Shiprwrecked
Quote:
Dan Wiley
I disagree that's all that matters. However, we did have this conversation about a year ago, after Obano's card. We're still in the same situation in that head contact is still regular, these reds are still skewing games and our chances in the final are being impacted. Do none of those things bother you?
No we didn't, I've not commented on that incident.
It was aimed at OB, I though that was clear from the "All that matters is..." and me saying "I disagree that's all that matters"
You've posted ANOTHER article saying the tackle height has lead to a reduction in concussions. Nothing about red cards in either article.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 13:59
Woody, I think the panel would ideally be within a week.
If we're pinning our hope on the reading backwards as meaning "towards the deadball line" then I think we're kidding ourselves. That would mean any side on tackle is passive and that just doesn't make sense.
I would say that both players are heading towards each other, if anything that's Sam's defense, DN steps into his tackle. But at the very least DN is running towards the try line and Sam is running laterally, they definitely aren't moving in the same general direction.
Quote:Shipwrecked
That's impossible if both players are moving in the same general direction Underhill is catching him up.
If we're pinning our hope on the reading backwards as meaning "towards the deadball line" then I think we're kidding ourselves. That would mean any side on tackle is passive and that just doesn't make sense.
I would say that both players are heading towards each other, if anything that's Sam's defense, DN steps into his tackle. But at the very least DN is running towards the try line and Sam is running laterally, they definitely aren't moving in the same general direction.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 14:13
Quote:Ali1969
I think it will set a really dangerous precedent given the officials have reviewed the incident and applied the protocols - to then challenge their perception of the incident - it would be different if the officials had missed something or did not follow the protocols and let us be clear the decision making is not outcome lead - however the 15 was straight up and involved in immediate play, which may well cause an unconscious bias towards downgrading the incident.
I agree with this and HD had a good match I thought, very quick to card Will Muir for his clumsiness. Not only that, Sam Underhill passes an HIA. (Which as you say is irrelevant).
PG pointed out indirectly that the citing was last minute, if it was a clear omission wouldn't it come promptly. No evidence for this but it sort of feels like it comes as after multiple media articles suggesting it should have been red.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 14:16
Quote:Dan Wiley
Woody, I think the panel would ideally be within a week.Quote:Shipwrecked
That's impossible if both players are moving in the same general direction Underhill is catching him up.
If we're pinning our hope on the reading backwards as meaning "towards the deadball line" then I think we're kidding ourselves. That would mean any side on tackle is passive and that just doesn't make sense.
We are not but you dismissed all points relating to mitigation.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 14:24
Yes, I don't think there's much there to mitigate Sam. We appear to be discussing whether his passive nature might mitigate it despite the fact he clearly knocks DN's head sideways. It will be up to the panel to decide whether to accept that as mitigation, I be amazed if, even with a great lawyer, they go "Well he nearly knocked the guys head off but he has a point, it didn't move towards the deadball line. As we all know, we're only interested in dangerous play IF the movement is towards the deadball line."
I agree with Ali, we're far better off hoping the panel doesn't want to contradict the ref.
I agree with Ali, we're far better off hoping the panel doesn't want to contradict the ref.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 14:30
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:Ali1969
I think it will set a really dangerous precedent given the officials have reviewed the incident and applied the protocols - to then challenge their perception of the incident - it would be different if the officials had missed something or did not follow the protocols and let us be clear the decision making is not outcome lead - however the 15 was straight up and involved in immediate play, which may well cause an unconscious bias towards downgrading the incident.
I agree with this and HD had a good match I thought, very quick to card Will Muir for his clumsiness. Not only that, Sam Underhill passes an HIA. (Which as you say is irrelevant).
PG pointed out indirectly that the citing was last minute, if it was a clear omission wouldn't it come promptly. No evidence for this but it sort of feels like it comes as after multiple media articles suggesting it should have been red.
It would be very disappointing if this citing was as a result of being found guilt in the media. As Goode proved in the commentary, ex players and pundits simply don’t understand the laws of rugby.
However in this incident I do think the officials (fortunately) got the final decision wrong. Even if the panel bizarrely leaves it as a yellow card, I think it will be a huge risk to pick Sam for the semi final as his tackle technique recently has been extremely poor. No way can we beat Bristol with 14 players in the pitch.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 14:55
Dan, the point being made here not just by myself is that any mitigation reduces it to a yellow. It's not done on "Well he nearly knocked the guys head off" which is the emotional bit, its done on whether the Law as currently written meets any mitigation criteria. Ali points out Holly Davidson was clear in stating her view of mitigation. The panel have to decide if she was wrong but Muir was clearly a factor.
The judicial panel might well see this as an opportunity to modify the 'law' which would be to Underhill's detriment since most head impact citings preface to face as opposed to 'side on' so they may want to clarify.
Equally these panels don't always agree with the citing official.
An independent disciplinary committee made up of Pamela Woodman (Scotland, Chair), Stefan Terblanche (South Africa) and Donal Courtney (Ireland) will hear the case today (Tuesday)
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
The judicial panel might well see this as an opportunity to modify the 'law' which would be to Underhill's detriment since most head impact citings preface to face as opposed to 'side on' so they may want to clarify.
Equally these panels don't always agree with the citing official.
An independent disciplinary committee made up of Pamela Woodman (Scotland, Chair), Stefan Terblanche (South Africa) and Donal Courtney (Ireland) will hear the case today (Tuesday)
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 15:37
Ok, just to be clear, what do you think the mitigation is here?
"Passiveness", I just don't see it. There's just too much transfer of momentum, irrespective of the wording of the laws. They don't HAVE to accept that it is a mitigating factor just because it occurred.
"A late change in dynamics due to another player in the contact area." Maybe, but he'll be very lucky though I think. It's not that dynamic, he's got a clear line of sight, back three players do step like that, the other player in the contact area has limited impact. In the past so many of those have ended in red, including a few I think you've argued for a red. If they go for that I think it will be in order to support the ref.
Do you think any of the other factors are applicable?
"Passiveness", I just don't see it. There's just too much transfer of momentum, irrespective of the wording of the laws. They don't HAVE to accept that it is a mitigating factor just because it occurred.
"A late change in dynamics due to another player in the contact area." Maybe, but he'll be very lucky though I think. It's not that dynamic, he's got a clear line of sight, back three players do step like that, the other player in the contact area has limited impact. In the past so many of those have ended in red, including a few I think you've argued for a red. If they go for that I think it will be in order to support the ref.
Do you think any of the other factors are applicable?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Benisjammin (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 16:49
It did look like a red on first glance. I do think the mitigation used by Davidson and TMO is correct though. The change of direction from the attacker significantly increased the force of the tackle. Without that Underhill was tackling from a roughly a 40 degree angle (i.e. a bit from the side but also travelling towards the same end of the pitch). The change of angle made this more like 90 degrees which resulted in a significant increase in collision force. I think the tackle was 'passive' before change of direction.
It's borderline but in my opinion the citing board should back up the call made by the referee in this case.
It's borderline but in my opinion the citing board should back up the call made by the referee in this case.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: boozeboozebooze (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 17:22
For me it was right on the cusp between yellow and red (my heart was in my mouth as the officials were discussing the decision).
Similar to when reviewing a potential try, I do think that unless the referee missed something clear and obvious then it's preferable to back the decision taken at the time. If the citers have uncovered a previously unavailable camera angle that definitively shows no mitigation then so be it, but from the replays we saw I'm not sure there was footage to overwhelmingly discredit the conclusion Davidson arrived at.
Equally if it had been given as a red, I wouldn't advocate for any sort of appeal against it, as there simply isn't unequivocal evidence to overturn it.
Similar to when reviewing a potential try, I do think that unless the referee missed something clear and obvious then it's preferable to back the decision taken at the time. If the citers have uncovered a previously unavailable camera angle that definitively shows no mitigation then so be it, but from the replays we saw I'm not sure there was footage to overwhelmingly discredit the conclusion Davidson arrived at.
Equally if it had been given as a red, I wouldn't advocate for any sort of appeal against it, as there simply isn't unequivocal evidence to overturn it.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 19:50
Hollie went through her analysis and listen to her talking with the ARs and TMO at about 40 mins on the tape. She says that Muirs involvement changed the positioning of DN bringing him lower and even Sam’s balance was affected as DN was then lower meeting Sam’s head. The panel have to find what is wrong with her judgement and the ARs and the TMO who all agreed on the yellow for a reversal.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 20:10
Quote:CoochieCoo
Hollie went through her analysis and listen to her talking with the ARs and TMO at about 40 mins on the tape. She says that Muirs involvement changed the positioning of DN bringing him lower and even Sam’s balance was affected as DN was then lower meeting Sam’s head. The panel have to find what is wrong with her judgement and the ARs and the TMO who all agreed on the yellow for a reversal.
Do they review all of the video evidence and submissions to make their own decision as to what colour card should have been given or do they simply review the refs decision to see if there's any significant reason why it was wron
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 20:23
I think it would be the former, keep in mind the ref may have seen nothing or done nothing, it's not about correcting their error as such.
I think it up to the citing commissioner to make a case and for Sam to defend himself.
I think it up to the citing commissioner to make a case and for Sam to defend himself.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 21:08
Quote:Dan Wiley
I don't really see the mitigation?
In this regard, the HCP lists the following as possible mitigating factors:
Sudden/significant drop in height or change in direction from ball carrier
Nope, not by previous standards
A late change in dynamics due to another player in the contact area
Nope, not by previous standards, the change in direction of the French player is "quite early by comparison"
An effort to wrap/bind and having no time to adjust
I've only every seen this as used NOT to mitigate, I don't recall it ever happening as well he tried to wrap so yellow. Many reds would be yellow if that were the case. This is the "always illegal, no mitigation can be applied route."
Passive tackler
Nope, certainly not
Link if you anyone is interested
[www.tiktok.com]
Honestly I think this video shows mitigation. Sam is clearly cornerflagging and as Niniashvili steps inside Muir you can see him slowing down and changing direction at 18s. Sam then hits him on 19s. It's less than a second between Niniashvili stepping and the contact.
Yes it's high, yes it's hard. The hardness makes it look worse. You kinda want the camera angle from behind the posts to see the direction change.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 21:20
The way red cards are being given out these days a second is seen as an eternity. I think that's harsh, but I think it's been harsh in many cases that have ended in red.
I guess we'll hear shortly, but sticking at yellow seems very inconsistent.
I guess we'll hear shortly, but sticking at yellow seems very inconsistent.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 21:22
I hesitate to say this but a judicial panel is not adversarial. The citing officer is not present. It's a disciplinary panel where all the evidence is submitted such as testimony, statements, video footage or medical reports. The judicial officer is usually legally trained the balance of the panel usually has someone with recent rugby experience.
They hear the evidence and consider the relevance or admissibility of that evidence, the standard of proof is "the balance of probabilities."
The player can have their say. The panel decide if foul play occurred, mitigation and sanction depending on the judgment of the incident. The judgement can be appealed.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
They hear the evidence and consider the relevance or admissibility of that evidence, the standard of proof is "the balance of probabilities."
The player can have their say. The panel decide if foul play occurred, mitigation and sanction depending on the judgment of the incident. The judgement can be appealed.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 27/05/2025 22:01
The plea will certainly be yes to foul play, no to red card threshold because of the mitigation identified by the ref. Then up to the panel to agree or disagree. There will presumably be more angles.
It looks like Niniashvili steps inside by ~2m in less than a second. Like I said, the contact is very hard, wouldn't be shocked if it was red, but HD's reasoning isn't... unreasonable (particularly if you look at the other decisions across the weekend).
It looks like Niniashvili steps inside by ~2m in less than a second. Like I said, the contact is very hard, wouldn't be shocked if it was red, but HD's reasoning isn't... unreasonable (particularly if you look at the other decisions across the weekend).
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 09:04
I take it the judgement has not been released - the other crumb of comfort is of course that Ollie Chessum was cited for the incident on Will Muir and one could suggest there was less mitigation than Sam's that case was dismissed by the disciplinary panel - albeit that was an RFU panel.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 09:10
Not as far as I can see, the details would be available here
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: A.M 180 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 09:40
That page is seemingly not being updated, otherwise Sam's previous red card would be in there
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 09:50
Being reported that Sam banned for 4 weeks
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Woodpecker (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 09:54
So he misses the potential final
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 09:59
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 10:01
Quote:Woodpecker
So he misses the potential final
Yes but still available for England summer tour if Borthwick wants to take the risk with him.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 10:06
Quote:Shipwrecked
I hesitate to say this but a judicial panel is not adversarial.
They aren't as such, but the citing commissioner will have presented a case prima facie, it is up to Sam to prove that what the commissioner has presented is wrong. In that sense its not unlike getting a direct red card, the ref has said it did happen, you have to prove it didn't. There's basically two approaches: it wasn't me (mistaken identity), not applicable here, or "doesn't meet the red card threshold." I think DN's change in direction was his best hope there but, while I think we aren't fair on players in these situations, Sam's got as much (if not more) time, space and vision to adapt as many other red cards.
As I say, the way to go is to stop players tackling at this height at all. Not allow these tackles and then say "because of a twist of fate your otherwise legal actions have been turned in to a red card."
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 10:27
4 weeks [www.bbc.co.uk]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 10:31
Shame, not surprised. Pepper, Reid will deputise well, Bayliss into the 23. Will be interested to read the judgement.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 10:54
If found guilty, Sam having already served a ban this season and done tackle school, was never going to get full 50% mitigation on a 6 week entry point so 4 games sounds about right.
(Caveat not seen full write up)
(Caveat not seen full write up)
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: copester (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 10:57
There has been so much hysteria about this in the media, The outcome was only going one way. The outcome is fair enough but I just don't know how Chessum got off with no ban at all for a clash that looked as bad as Underhills?
Undermining the 4 officials is not a good look either.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Undermining the 4 officials is not a good look either.
adopted player, 24/25 Hame Faiva. 23/24 Ted Hill. 22/23 Cam Redpath. 21/22 Max Clark. 20/21 Henry Thomas. 19/20 Max Wright. 18/19 Cooper Vuna.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 11:28
Quote:This is a great point and one I was making watching the match back last night. It was one the case the the “Ref was alway right” and their decisions respected. The entire commentary following the Underhill yellow was coloured by “but he should have had a red” and “I can’t believe the Ref got it so wrong”. Rugby wants to bang on about “values” but the coverage totally misses this aspect.copester
Undermining the 4 officials is not a good look either.
I think it’s fine for fans to complain they think something is wrong or missed, but then move on.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 11:39
Sam used to have really good tackle technique, but over the last month or so it’s been really poor and almost a liability.
Hope this serves as a warning to the rest of the squad.
Going to hurt Bath for the remainder of the season, hope Sam doesn’t beat himself up too much though as I’m sure he’s gutted.
Hope this serves as a warning to the rest of the squad.
Going to hurt Bath for the remainder of the season, hope Sam doesn’t beat himself up too much though as I’m sure he’s gutted.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: boozeboozebooze (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 11:40
I really feel for Sam, the slow motion replays fail to capture just how many moving parts there were in that situation and how little time he had to make a decision.
To try and find a silver lining, hopefully this acts as a timely reminder to the rest of the group on the importance of discipline/tackle technique for the remaining games.
We're also in a very fortunate position to still be able to choose from Pepper, Hill, Reid, Bayliss, Barbeary, Richards, Staddon and Green for our back row.
To try and find a silver lining, hopefully this acts as a timely reminder to the rest of the group on the importance of discipline/tackle technique for the remaining games.
We're also in a very fortunate position to still be able to choose from Pepper, Hill, Reid, Bayliss, Barbeary, Richards, Staddon and Green for our back row.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 12:05
“Ref was alway right”
This is the problem though, probably this attitude. The ref isn't always right and we all know this, anyone who has played rugby knows this. The right attitude is "the refs decision is not questionable (by players and supporters*)." We know refs get it wrong, its part of the game, that doesn't mean the decision they make can or should be questioned.
* Sure assessors, panels etc can and should evaluate their decisions, that's their job.
This is the problem though, probably this attitude. The ref isn't always right and we all know this, anyone who has played rugby knows this. The right attitude is "the refs decision is not questionable (by players and supporters*)." We know refs get it wrong, its part of the game, that doesn't mean the decision they make can or should be questioned.
* Sure assessors, panels etc can and should evaluate their decisions, that's their job.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 12:24
The recent citing of Sam and Chessum highlight to me that we’d benefit from how Super rugby deals with foul play. Yellow card issued then 8 minutes for separate TMO to take time to fully review the incident and decide if card should be upgraded to red.
Taking this approach could lead to fewer mistakes during the match and less time wasted with panel reviews after the match.
Taking this approach could lead to fewer mistakes during the match and less time wasted with panel reviews after the match.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 12:29
That's a massive blow. Sam was immense. A crazy number of dominant tackles and post contact metres. One marginal misjudged tackle
Yes, we have good backup options but we will really miss him, especially on the big stage of we get there
Yes, we have good backup options but we will really miss him, especially on the big stage of we get there
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 12:33
If a red is issued there will be a panel so I don't think there's much of a saving there.
I think that if this had been in an international it would have gone to the bunker, the bunker would have gone red (20 min). Different outcome again. So we're really making an inconsistent mess of this by adding bunkers and further cards.
Personally I find it frustrating that you only get a very vague "yeah, high degree of danger, its red." from the ref 10 min later. I actually quite like hearing them come to a decision and I think its valid to have that discussion in front of an audience so you know there's nothing being said like "Well, its a final so... go easy?" The time is off and I think its reasonably entertaining so I don't really see the problem?
By contrast VAR, when it just goes dead, everyone sits on their hands and then they just go "red!" is terrible.
I think that if this had been in an international it would have gone to the bunker, the bunker would have gone red (20 min). Different outcome again. So we're really making an inconsistent mess of this by adding bunkers and further cards.
Personally I find it frustrating that you only get a very vague "yeah, high degree of danger, its red." from the ref 10 min later. I actually quite like hearing them come to a decision and I think its valid to have that discussion in front of an audience so you know there's nothing being said like "Well, its a final so... go easy?" The time is off and I think its reasonably entertaining so I don't really see the problem?
By contrast VAR, when it just goes dead, everyone sits on their hands and then they just go "red!" is terrible.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 12:54
My view is clearly they were like 'the 20-min red is coming, but it's not here now, so look for mitigation if at all possible and let the citing panel handle the rest, we don't want a red card in the finals like the RWC and Big Cup last year'.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 13:02
Quote:hasta
My view is clearly they were like 'the 20-min red is coming, but it's not here now, so look for mitigation if at all possible and let the citing panel handle the rest, we don't want a red card in the finals like the RWC and Big Cup last year'.
Totally agree, world rugby trial coming. I expect a similar instruction in the final.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 13:46
Quote:dcshQuote:This is a great point and one I was making watching the match back last night. It was one the case the the “Ref was alway right” and their decisions respected. The entire commentary following the Underhill yellow was coloured by “but he should have had a red” and “I can’t believe the Ref got it so wrong”. Rugby wants to bang on about “values” but the coverage totally misses this aspect.copester
Undermining the 4 officials is not a good look either.
I think it’s fine for fans to complain they think something is wrong or missed, but then move on.
This is all true but Union is happy to undermine citing commissions when the 'wrong answer' is given.
I agree though, it sends the wrong message that 'outrage' will be responded and it's part of the reasons why fans, pundits etc. don't move on from incidents and, sometimes, actively seek competitive advantage (no doubt our future opponents benefit from this suspension).
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Francis Allen (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 14:17
Looking forward to reading EPCR's report. I read the Chessum one several times to try and understand how they arrived at their decision and was still none the wiser.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 15:31
Here it is if interested:
[rfu.widen.net]
I've not seen the event actually, but the reasoning seems fairly clear even if its not what we felt happened:
"The Panel concluded that there had been direct contact to B11’s head (in particular to his neck/jaw)
but that there was also simultaneous contact between the Player’s chest and B11’s right arm/
shoulder.The Player was moving at a slow speed across the defensive line and there was no lack
of control. The Player did not lead with his shoulder and this was not a reckless tackle in the sense
that it was an attempt to perform a legitimate wrap / soak tackle that was simply too high. The
Panel concluded that this was more akin to a passive tackle than a dynamic one. Of particular
assistance to the Panel on this issue was the video angle from the touchline which demonstrated
that the Player moved backwards in the tackle and that B11 continued through the tackle past the
gain line. The Panel also noted that B11 did not suffer an injury. Whilst not a determinative factor, it
was nonetheless informative as to the level of force imparted to B11’s head. Taking into account all
these facts, the Panel concluded that the force applied in this tackle was not high. Balancing these
various factors against the “trigger words” used in the HCP, and the considerations set out under
question 3 (namely, what was the degree of danger?), the Panel concluded that there was not a
high degree of danger in this unlawful tackle and that the red card threshold was not met."
[rfu.widen.net]
I've not seen the event actually, but the reasoning seems fairly clear even if its not what we felt happened:
"The Panel concluded that there had been direct contact to B11’s head (in particular to his neck/jaw)
but that there was also simultaneous contact between the Player’s chest and B11’s right arm/
shoulder.The Player was moving at a slow speed across the defensive line and there was no lack
of control. The Player did not lead with his shoulder and this was not a reckless tackle in the sense
that it was an attempt to perform a legitimate wrap / soak tackle that was simply too high. The
Panel concluded that this was more akin to a passive tackle than a dynamic one. Of particular
assistance to the Panel on this issue was the video angle from the touchline which demonstrated
that the Player moved backwards in the tackle and that B11 continued through the tackle past the
gain line. The Panel also noted that B11 did not suffer an injury. Whilst not a determinative factor, it
was nonetheless informative as to the level of force imparted to B11’s head. Taking into account all
these facts, the Panel concluded that the force applied in this tackle was not high. Balancing these
various factors against the “trigger words” used in the HCP, and the considerations set out under
question 3 (namely, what was the degree of danger?), the Panel concluded that there was not a
high degree of danger in this unlawful tackle and that the red card threshold was not met."
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 16:58
A huge shame for Sam, as it likely means he’ll never be a Lion. A big loss for us, mostly because I think the team that will trouble us most is Sale, and Sam was a big reason why I thought we would best their power game. No Lawrence, Jaco or Sam depowers us relatively speaking.
However, Bayliss gets his chance and it’ll be the same backrow stocks (Pepper in for Sam) as we had last year. Bayliss and Reid did great in the later rounds. They’re better players this year, and what an opportunity for Bayliss to really stake a claim.
I feel we’ve been incredibly well managed but also a bit lucky with our availability (injury + suspension). Until now! But we’re still so strong and the squad depth, and JVG’s recruitment in the back row, has paid off. Another back row injury and we’d be stretched but for the semi we will still be plenty strong enough. I’d be taking them all out of the firing line for Sarries.
Oh and I now predict Ted Hill will be MotM in the home semi and the 6 for England’s summer tour!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
However, Bayliss gets his chance and it’ll be the same backrow stocks (Pepper in for Sam) as we had last year. Bayliss and Reid did great in the later rounds. They’re better players this year, and what an opportunity for Bayliss to really stake a claim.
I feel we’ve been incredibly well managed but also a bit lucky with our availability (injury + suspension). Until now! But we’re still so strong and the squad depth, and JVG’s recruitment in the back row, has paid off. Another back row injury and we’d be stretched but for the semi we will still be plenty strong enough. I’d be taking them all out of the firing line for Sarries.
Oh and I now predict Ted Hill will be MotM in the home semi and the 6 for England’s summer tour!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: warrenball (IP Logged)
Date: 28/05/2025 23:40
Big loss and couldn't have come at a worse time for Sam. I feel sorry for Holly Davidson because her reaction was to try very hard to find mitigation so she could not be accused of spoiling the final. Whatever instructions are given to referees they should be told to apply the laws equally on all games.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 00:10
Can the club appeal the ban?
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 00:26
Quote:joethefanatic
Can the club appeal the ban?
Yes
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: annie blackthorn (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 04:10
Underhill is an experienced senior player.
I have never met the bloke, know nothing about him apart from seeing him play for Bath, so can only assume that he made an error of judgement, ...................................not in a split second either. He pays the price. No good weeping and wailing that his 'ban' is unfair.
I have never met the bloke, know nothing about him apart from seeing him play for Bath, so can only assume that he made an error of judgement, ...................................not in a split second either. He pays the price. No good weeping and wailing that his 'ban' is unfair.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 08:09
Sam can appeal it, I don't see the point and he may lose some of the factors that mitigate it down to four weeks.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 08:16
Until we see the reasoning it's hard to judge, but based on the BBC report I think he was fairly lucky to get 4 weeks and not the full 6?
At a disciplinary hearing on Tuesday, Underhill accepted he had committed an act of foul play but did not accept it warranted a red card.
The committee determined it was a mid-range offence, which would warrant a six-week ban, and downgraded it to four due to Underhill's remorse. But they were unable to reduce it further due to his prior record.
I'm not really sure what you would have to do to actually get the full sanction (has anyone ever seen a 6 match ban for a mid range tackle?)
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
At a disciplinary hearing on Tuesday, Underhill accepted he had committed an act of foul play but did not accept it warranted a red card.
The committee determined it was a mid-range offence, which would warrant a six-week ban, and downgraded it to four due to Underhill's remorse. But they were unable to reduce it further due to his prior record.
I'm not really sure what you would have to do to actually get the full sanction (has anyone ever seen a 6 match ban for a mid range tackle?)
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 08:19
That's impossible to say without seeing the details of the hearing. In fact as AM 180 pointed out neither of Sam's red card hearings are posted online. Unless someone knows otherwise.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 08:23
Quote:BathMatt53
Until we see the reasoning it's hard to judge, but based on the BBC report I think he was fairly lucky to get 4 weeks and not the full 6?
Don't you get 50% for pleading guilty then add the extra week for previous. I find it odd that he only gets a week though. Not as clear cut as it seems perhaps. Need to see the report.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 08:28
It's pretty rare that you can't apply some mitigation, I think you'd have to show no remorse and show poor conduct either on the occasion or at the panel, and have a prior red card.
I agree though, two weeks off seems generous on the back of so recent a red card.
I agree though, two weeks off seems generous on the back of so recent a red card.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 08:33
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53
Until we see the reasoning it's hard to judge, but based on the BBC report I think he was fairly lucky to get 4 weeks and not the full 6?
Don't you get 50% for pleading guilty then add the extra week for previous. I find it odd that he only gets a week though. Not as clear cut as it seems perhaps. Need to see the report.
He didn't plead guilty (to the red card offence) according to the BBC report? Best to wait for the full hearing minutes I guess then we will know what exactly happened.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 08:33
50% is the maximum they can take off, there's basically 6 things that can factor into that:
Admission
Record
Experience
Conduct
Remorse
Other off field factors
Experience and record work against Sam. By saying he did it but he doesn't think it meets the red threshold he can probably claim admission, though it can be a fine line.
Admission
Record
Experience
Conduct
Remorse
Other off field factors
Experience and record work against Sam. By saying he did it but he doesn't think it meets the red threshold he can probably claim admission, though it can be a fine line.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 08:39
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53
Until we see the reasoning it's hard to judge, but based on the BBC report I think he was fairly lucky to get 4 weeks and not the full 6?
Don't you get 50% for pleading guilty then add the extra week for previous. I find it odd that he only gets a week though. Not as clear cut as it seems perhaps. Need to see the report.
He didn't plead guilty (to the red card offence) according to the BBC report? Best to wait for the full hearing minutes I guess then we will know what exactly happened.
Define pleading guilty perhaps?
At a disciplinary hearing on Tuesday, Underhill accepted he had committed an act of foul play but did not accept it warranted a red card.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 08:58
More evidence that the current Law on tackle height is working, this time early data from the RFU. Its a paywall article but I include the relevant details. Source
This is interesting as it includes young players brought up in the era of the tackle height variation.
The data, which is still in its early stages, is drawn from analysis of 200 matches across the National Leagues, the university system’s BUCS Men’s Super Rugby and schoolboys under-18 level to examine the effects of lowering the tackle height to below the base of the sternum.
In BUCS matches, tackles above the sternum following the law-change dropped from 42 per game to 28. In National One, the average number of head contacts dropped from six to three.
A knock-on effect from lowering the tackle height was an increase in offloads and a reduced number of breakdowns. At National League level, the number of average tackles per game dropped from 259 to 225, while offloads increased on average from 19 to 23.
The number of red cards issued for dangerous play under Law 9.13 notably decreased, while the number of reported concussions in men’s levels three to nine stabilised, having steadily increased since 2009-2010. The concussion numbers for the women’s game remained similar to previous seasons.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
This is interesting as it includes young players brought up in the era of the tackle height variation.
The data, which is still in its early stages, is drawn from analysis of 200 matches across the National Leagues, the university system’s BUCS Men’s Super Rugby and schoolboys under-18 level to examine the effects of lowering the tackle height to below the base of the sternum.
In BUCS matches, tackles above the sternum following the law-change dropped from 42 per game to 28. In National One, the average number of head contacts dropped from six to three.
A knock-on effect from lowering the tackle height was an increase in offloads and a reduced number of breakdowns. At National League level, the number of average tackles per game dropped from 259 to 225, while offloads increased on average from 19 to 23.
The number of red cards issued for dangerous play under Law 9.13 notably decreased, while the number of reported concussions in men’s levels three to nine stabilised, having steadily increased since 2009-2010. The concussion numbers for the women’s game remained similar to previous seasons.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 09:19
Quote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53Quote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53
Until we see the reasoning it's hard to judge, but based on the BBC report I think he was fairly lucky to get 4 weeks and not the full 6?
Don't you get 50% for pleading guilty then add the extra week for previous. I find it odd that he only gets a week though. Not as clear cut as it seems perhaps. Need to see the report.
He didn't plead guilty (to the red card offence) according to the BBC report? Best to wait for the full hearing minutes I guess then we will know what exactly happened.
Define pleading guilty perhaps?
At a disciplinary hearing on Tuesday, Underhill accepted he had committed an act of foul play but did not accept it warranted a red card.
The citing commission presumably thought that it was a red card and he didn't accept that. That's the reason why he was cited - because they didn't think that a yellow was sufficient.
It would have been quite a reach for him to not accept that head contact was made given that about 100000 people watched it happen (on TV and live)!
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 09:27
Quote:warrenball
I feel sorry for Holly Davidson because her reaction was to try very hard to find mitigation so she could not be accused of spoiling the final. Whatever instructions are given to referees they should be told to apply the laws equally on all games.
Honestly, if she was told to find mitigation to not spoil the final and then found by the citing committee to not have applied the laws as they should have been then that is a scandal and absolutely appalling way to treat a referee.
She explained her reasoning on national TVs - more prominently than any hearing. Obviously plenty disagreed with her assessment but she didn't just pluck something out of thin air and she did seek confirmation from the TMO.
I don't know what the objective is in overturning visible and reasoned decisions. What benefit does it give the game?
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Quel Carreleur (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 09:51
Shifted my reply to the more relevant thread
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:29:09:52:03 by Which Tyler.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2025:05:29:09:52:03 by Which Tyler.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 10:17
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53Quote:shipwreckedQuote:BathMatt53
Until we see the reasoning it's hard to judge, but based on the BBC report I think he was fairly lucky to get 4 weeks and not the full 6?
Don't you get 50% for pleading guilty then add the extra week for previous. I find it odd that he only gets a week though. Not as clear cut as it seems perhaps. Need to see the report.
He didn't plead guilty (to the red card offence) according to the BBC report? Best to wait for the full hearing minutes I guess then we will know what exactly happened.
Define pleading guilty perhaps?
At a disciplinary hearing on Tuesday, Underhill accepted he had committed an act of foul play but did not accept it warranted a red card.
The citing commission presumably thought that it was a red card and he didn't accept that. That's the reason why he was cited - because they didn't think that a yellow was sufficient.
It would have been quite a reach for him to not accept that head contact was made given that about 100000 people watched it happen (on TV and live)!
If he did not plead guilty though Matt why did he get 50% reduction?
Need to see the report!
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 10:24
Quote:shipwrecked
If he did not plead guilty though Matt why did he get 50% reduction?
Need to see the report!
According to the BBC report it was because he 'had remorse'.
Yes, need to see the report.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: Dan Wiley (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 10:39
"It would have been quite a reach for him to not accept that head contact was made given that about 100000 people watched it happen (on TV and live)!"
He -could- claim it was accidental as in not intentional or reckless. It isn't foul play to do surfing accidentally.
Very often panels accept that if you admit to foul play but say you feel it hasn't reached the red card threshold they'll take that as accepting the charge.
He -could- claim it was accidental as in not intentional or reckless. It isn't foul play to do surfing accidentally.
Very often panels accept that if you admit to foul play but say you feel it hasn't reached the red card threshold they'll take that as accepting the charge.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 11:42
He pled guilty to foul play.
Re: CÔTES DU RHONE OR SOMERSET CIDER? TEAM UP!
Posted by: tigersimon (IP Logged)
Date: 29/05/2025 12:16
As Dan says the mitigating factors are
Admission
Record
Experience
Conduct
Remorse
Other off field factors (Character reference)
Pleading guilty to foul play but disputing it didn’t reach the Red Card threshold has no impact on Admission mitigation nowadays.
Without the report it’s difficult to know if it was all mitigation or an aggravating factor was added for repeat offence!
See 19.4.55 -> [www.englandrugby.com]
With the hearing finding it met the Red Card threshold and the previous Red this season, 4 weeks seems about right as there would be no mitigation for Experience or Record.
Admission
Record
Experience
Conduct
Remorse
Other off field factors (Character reference)
Pleading guilty to foul play but disputing it didn’t reach the Red Card threshold has no impact on Admission mitigation nowadays.
Without the report it’s difficult to know if it was all mitigation or an aggravating factor was added for repeat offence!
See 19.4.55 -> [www.englandrugby.com]
With the hearing finding it met the Red Card threshold and the previous Red this season, 4 weeks seems about right as there would be no mitigation for Experience or Record.
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