Munster Vs Blues

Munster Vs Blues

Good performance by the Blues but am I the only one annoyed with the Ref tonight?

i am gutted. good performance by the boys just couldnt quite pull the win off. when rst was yellow carded well thats when it started 2 slip.

Better but a long way to go.

Pack was much better. Sweeney was OK. Muster were poor. I didn't think the ref was too bad. RST offending in the "red zone" was asking for trouble.

according to day young at end of the game when RST Got Sent Off It Should have been a pen 2 us not a yellow card. I cant see why he said that my self i missed what happend and just seen RST Getting The Yellow

one word...
gutted

RST was very harshly dealt with.

Ref warned MUNSTER a little earlier for persistent offending at the breakdown - no warning to the Blues.
RST was on his feet, won the ball and at no point did the ref call hands off at the tackle that eventually saw RST yellow-carded. That decision totally swung the game - 14 points conceded whilst we were a man down when up until that point we had been very effective in defence (apart from the first 2 minutes of course!).

Two incidents of the irish team tackling Blues without the ball in midfield as we pressed into their 22, both ignored!

Munster continued to offend at the breakdown, were even penalised for it, and no yellow card - how the hell can ANYONE think that Peter Alan had an alright game - he was feckless and clueless as usual.

And don't anyone say 'Blues can't balme the ref for their loss' cos in this particular instance the television evidence points to a pretty water tight case against the ref - I rest my case m'Lord!

Glad to hear there were extenuating circumstances.
As Munster were playing their first team a strong second half was always on the cards from Men-O-Cork.
Was concerned to see Tito talking to the touchline interviewer and from the little of the match I caught I thought our lineout was poor in the last 10, so why did he go off?

Quote:

HeadCoach
RST was very harshly dealt with.
Ref warned MUNSTER a little earlier for persistent offending at the breakdown - no warning to the Blues.
RST was on his feet, won the ball and at no point did the ref call hands off at the tackle that eventually saw RST yellow-carded. That decision totally swung the game - 14 points conceded whilst we were a man down when up until that point we had been very effective in defence (apart from the first 2 minutes of course!).

Two incidents of the irish team tackling Blues without the ball in midfield as we pressed into their 22, both ignored!

Munster continued to offend at the breakdown, were even penalised for it, and no yellow card - how the hell can ANYONE think that Peter Alan had an alright game - he was feckless and clueless as usual.

And don't anyone say 'Blues can't balme the ref for their loss' cos in this particular instance the television evidence points to a pretty water tight case against the ref - I rest my case m'Lord!

I judge a ref initially on the "feel" I get during a game. I later rerun the game and watch incidents in more detail. During the game I felt he made errors (both ways) but nothing major. Watching the replays I may amend my opinion.

The fact that we, once again created little is more a cause of the defeat than the ref!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008:09:22:07:58:27 by ATTR.

Very frustrating watching the blues at the moment as they seem to go from very good to very poor in a matter of minutes.
Still we should have got something out of the game,

WISH I STILL LIVED IN CARDIFF

I don't know why we didn't go for the drop goal from the Lineout that followed Ben Blairs fantastic touck kick at about 70 mins

Watching the RST "card" again, he was clearly off his feet and the card was justified. In my opinion.

The performance against Munster was a whole lot better its a step in the right dirction but there is still alot of work to go. Im not sure about anyone else but the standard of refs we are having is double standards this season letting everything go against us but punish us at every opportunity, ie lenister we should of had a penalty try the winger should of gone for ten minutes. RST yellow this week he persistantly let munster get away with offences that should be a penalty to us RST gets caught once and yellow card if the IRB are so hell bent on improving the game how about they turn the attention to helping refs make the right calls,lower league refs get assessed every so often it begs the question are the top flight refs being assessed.

We got away with plenty on Sat night as well. Watch with both eyes folks.

ATTR you have expressed an opinion about the ref.
I disgree with that opinion as is my right to do so - do not then patronise me by telling me to 'watch with both eyes' just because my opinion does not align itself with yours.

I too record and rewatch the game more than once and I will repeat, if you didn't get the message the first time, that IMO RST was on his feet whilst he won the ball, he was pushed over by the Munster open-side after he had secured the ball - he did not go off his feet in order to prevent Munster from winning that ball,which was the reason for the warning to Munster.

However, in this instance the awarding of the penalty against Sowden-Taylor is less of a problem - I have less issue with the initial decison to penalise him, it is THE IMMEDIATE ISSUING of a YELLOW CARD that was harsh since NO WARNING WAS ISSUED TO THE BLUES and the warning he gave to Munster was not a general one but one SPECIFICALLY FOR MUNSTER.

I don't expect every decision to go in the Blues favour, but I do feel that EITHER referees must be consistent in issung yellow cards as soon as they see negative play OR issue warnings to EACH side, not a mixture of both.

I also have to say that in two of the Blues games - Leinster and Munster - the touch judges have given no support to the referees for incidents in try scoring situations.

If you read my post I've not to you specifically to watch with both eyes but fans in general.

1; RST is not supported by his own feet and is therefore off his feet.
2;The ref does not need to issue any warning before issuing a yellow card.
3;The Assistant referee's will only offer assistance as requested by the referee.
4; Why do so many Cardiff fans think that so many refs have an issue with Cardiff?

The ref calls it as he sees it. Live with it. We lost because we were not good enough to score points OUR fault nobody else. Look to the players, coaches and the board for your scapegoats!

Quote:

HeadCoach
ATTR you have expressed an opinion about the ref.
I disgree with that opinion as is my right to do so - do not then patronise me by telling me to 'watch with both eyes' just because my opinion does not align itself with yours.

I too record and rewatch the game more than once and I will repeat, if you didn't get the message the first time, that IMO RST was on his feet whilst he won the ball, he was pushed over by the Munster open-side after he had secured the ball - he did not go off his feet in order to prevent Munster from winning that ball,which was the reason for the warning to Munster.

However, in this instance the awarding of the penalty against Sowden-Taylor is less of a problem - I have less issue with the initial decison to penalise him, it is THE IMMEDIATE ISSUING of a YELLOW CARD that was harsh since NO WARNING WAS ISSUED TO THE BLUES and the warning he gave to Munster was not a general one but one SPECIFICALLY FOR MUNSTER.

I don't expect every decision to go in the Blues favour, but I do feel that EITHER referees must be consistent in issung yellow cards as soon as they see negative play OR issue warnings to EACH side, not a mixture of both.

I also have to say that in two of the Blues games - Leinster and Munster - the touch judges have given no support to the referees for incidents in try scoring situations.

Top post

RST's offence was in the "red zone" most of the Munster offences were not the referee will have taken into account the effect of the offence when issuing a card.

Sadly all fans feel that there team are the most hard done by in every game from the evil little man in the middle. They can't all be true. We all see a game through tinted glasses and less than both eyes. However, ask yourselves some pertinent questions and consider the logical answers.

In most (99%) case the ref could not give a monkeys about who wins.

During the heat of the game many incidents occur outside the field of vision of officials.

The ref make a judgment call in a split second from HIS angle of view not mine. You may well see it differently or he may see something you do not and vice versa.

Yes there are, of course, referees who are corrupt, bent or whatever. We are humans like the rest of you and are individually subject to the same influences upon us as you.

Still all this misses the point as to where responsibility lies for the failure of Cardiff teams time and time again!

What angle did Jiffy and Kingsley Jones watch the game from. One of whom must have half wished RST had shown Dissent and got himself suspended when we visit Sale next week and both of whom said the Ref was wrong.

They may have had the TV angle or a different angle had they been at the ground. Kingsly will speak from a 7's point of view. Jiffy's understanding of the Laws is not always accurate. Sadly most players are poor when it comes to the Laws of the game.

Being at the RFC game first time I saw the incident myself was on Scrum V. The TV view clearly showed the Ref was wrong. Tragedy is this is the second game the plonker has cost us this season. Didn't he ref the Leinster game. I still don't believe he didn't give us a penalty try.

No, it was a different scottish ref for Leinster, Andy Macpherson. I didn't think he had a great game either but think his decisions didn't affected the result.

In fairness to him, for the worst decsio of the Leinster game Macpherson was in mid-field and probably unsighted. The penalty try shout (which was right in front of where I stand) had to be made by the touch judge on the North side (an aspiring welsh referee no-less - viewed as the natural successor to Nigel Owens on the internatioal board!)
How in @*&%s name he managed to miss it I really do not know as it was, at best a one-handed slap out of the air by the defendng winger who was the last defender with a clear overlap outside!

I go back to my point about touch judges, I've done the training and reffed at junior level and you simply have to rely on huge support from your colleagues on the line. If referees mss something, I fully understand cos it' easy to do, but touch judges are trained to keep an eye on off the ball incidents and deliberate professional foul / foul play. Sadly, many just seem to go to sleep!

if our offence was in the red zone why were munster not punished for two penaltys in a matter of minutes for the same offence in the middle of the park that clearly should be a yellow card for persistantly offending doesn't matter where you are on the field if you persistantly offend refs have just got lack of confidence and consistancy to show teams we play against the yellow card southern hempishere refs wont think twice about giving yellows out too whatever team they dont care who you are, you persistantly offend on their feild your gone its about time the refs in the magners league got their act together. Im not moaning just because i am a cardiff fan through and through, the standard of refs in this league for all teams so far this year as been less than satisfactory in certain games.

In England's top leagues the ARs are dedicated to the job and not refs themselves. The prepare for the, very different, aspects of the AR role. Watching different areas of the game to the referee. So refs find it relatively easy to swap roles other find it harder. The support of a good AR would make most of our lives much easier. For some of us we struggle to get a committee man or supporter to "run the line" we never get a second pair of eyes.

Some refs tell their ARs to assist fairly comprehensively others do not so it is hard to know why an offense has not been reported to the ref. I think we need dedicated ARs but resources suggest that it will not happen.

Re the red zone and repeated offenses. It is frustrating that sides have more leeway in the middle of the park than close to the line. However, as long as both sides are treated the same things even out.

The standard of ML referees is a concern. However, let's not loose sight of the more pressing worry about the standard of OUR side

So the Macphersons are taking over from the Changlings. Seriously in two other major sports namely RL and Soccer there are referee assessors sat in the stands watching the performasnces of the Ref. Do they do this in the GP as well and if so isn't it time the ML followed suit

Assessors do watch and report on referees at ML and other games.

Quote:

ATTR
Assessors do watch and report on referees at ML and other games.

Let's face it, the current assessor system contributes nothing to the quality of refereeing.

Every other job of responsibility now requires some degree of accountability - rugby refereeing does no such thing.

Even in cricket, if the umpires are assessed as making a consistently regular error, they are shown video footage, and retrained to account for this weakness.Who sees the rugby referees errors - it's not a transparent system and therefore there is a distinct lack of trust in the integrity of the referee position.

Mistakes are acceptable - consistent, unchecked error should not be acceptable.

And you know this does not happen in Rugby?

I think referees in rugby have a much harder job than umpires in cricket. I also feel they make far less errors that the people on the terraces and in the stand think (due to poor knowledge of the laws etc).

Still it is much easier to blame the ref rather than the team when things go wrong.

Quote:

ATTR
And you know this does not happen in Rugby?
I think referees in rugby have a much harder job than umpires in cricket. I also feel they make far less errors that the people on the terraces and in the stand think (due to poor knowledge of the laws etc).

Still it is much easier to blame the ref rather than the team when things go wrong.

Methinks I have touched a bit of a raw nerve ATTR!

Yes I do[/b] know that this does [b]not[u][/u] happen in rugby.
I have a few friends who are referees and one who is a top level assessor and they will openly admit that the assessor system currently in operation in rugby is flawed.

It is not supportive of the referee and his future development, it simply assesses his relative success in specific areas of the game noted by the assessor himself - far too subjective and not enough objective data is used - unlike in current cricket system.

You show your own ignorance by trying to compare the cricket unpire with the rugby referee. It is like comparing chalk and cheese - neither is easy and neither use the same skills.

You are just displaying all the arrogance I would expect from an overdefensive, insecure referee - you sure you're not on the international board!???

At no point have I said that the refereeng job is easy, on the contrary, having refereed myself, I know it is very difficult and mistakes are expected and accepable to anyone who understands the game. What I have a prolem with is referees who use human error as an excuse for poor decsion making - there is a difference.

I reinterate what I stated before, don't say things like, 'Oh well in that case your knowledge must be poor' just because I don't agree with you. You really must learn to understand what opinion means. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree with each other.

You keep getting tetchy like that ATTR and I'll be thinking your Nigel Whitehouse!!!

Rugby does have an assessment system you admit that. Is it flawed? Indeed it is. So too is the RL system and the system operating in Cricket.

I've done both and in my opinion Rugby is harder. The game is more dynamic and viewing angles are far more critical and easily obscured.

I refered to supporters in general and not you specifically (I have never met you how so how could I comment on your knowledge?). Most comments I hear around me at games I watch show a totally inaccurate knowledge of the laws of the game. In many cases people quote laws that were changed 20 or more years ago. So I do stand by my comment about supporters in general (and it must be said players and coaches!).