Lions Tour 2009: How the English players rated
By Patrick
July 8 2009
The British and Irish Lions managed to keep their heads held high after ending the fantastic if ultimately disappointing series with a 2-1 narrow loss to the Springboks. Here’s our verdict on the squad, and how the players got on.
Lions Tour 2009: How the English players rated The British and Irish Lions managed to keep their heads held high after ending the fantastic if ultimately disappointing series with a 2-1 narrow loss to the Springboks. Ian McGeechan and Gerald Davies went all out to restore the Lions' ethos on this tour, and did so by commendably immersing the players in local culture and introducing a back-to-basics policy on the tour. The squad of players performed admirably and although the Lions eventually ended up coming away as part of the losing side, they played their part in a memorable tour that was in the balance the whole way through, doing the Lions brand no harm at all. LEE BYRNE: Started strongly in the early stages of the tour showing what a classy operator he is, and almost single-handedly offering a get-out-of-jail-free card to his side against the Royal XV. Will be bitterly disappointed having succumbed to a tour-ending thumb injury. B
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Monye - B as you say
Flutey - Heading for a C until his sterling work in the final Test. B. I hope the England team have taken note that he does not require a one dimensional banger outside him to perform well.
Ellis - D. Slow delivery, bad decision making and aimless kicking, just what we've come to expect from him and I'm glad fans of other nations suffered with us.
Sheridan - B+ - Some fairly quiet performances but showed his mettle in the end.
Vickery - B- - Sadly got on the wrong side of a player who he couldn't deal with (nor could the ref but see also below) but came back strong. Should be England's bench option from now on, though.
Payne - B for his one game, I'm sure he enjoyed the trip, he's now second fiddle to Sheridan (I'd prefer Flatman but there you go).
Mears - C- - Again, once his lineout was stripped away, he was exposed as having no other use in Test rugby. His inability to scrummage against top Test teams was a contributing factor to Vickery's horror show and he gets smashed in the loose by the SH teams. Hartley should replace him (Sheridan, Hartley, Wilson looks a really good front row). Mears should be confined to the bench until the game breaks up late on.
Shaw - A (but with slight reservations over his discipline). Great tour, also another contributing factor in the rehabilitation of Vickery. BUT WHERE IS HIS REPLACEMENT? We can't flog him much longer.
Croft - A- - Agree.
Worsley - B- - We know his uses, they don't fit with how I want England to play, but fair dues, he did OK.
Quote:Battering Ram Winger
Mears - C- - Again, once his lineout was stripped away, he was exposed as having no other use in Test rugby. His inability to scrummage against top Test teams was a contributing factor to Vickery's horror show and he gets smashed in the loose by the SH teams. Hartley should replace him (Sheridan, Hartley, Wilson looks a really good front row). Mears should be confined to the bench until the game breaks up late on.
What a strange argument. In other words, "once you take away one of the best things Mears offers, he's not that good anymore". I've yet to see Mears ever get smashed back in the loose. Not in England colours anyway, on the contrary he tends to make more metres than several other forwards we won't name. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on scrummaging, but the scrum was solid when it was Jenkins-Mears-Jones front row in the ten or so minutes before Rees came on.
Hartley doesn't even have good lineout accuracy to strip away in the first place (one of his typically wayward throws led directly to an Argentina try in Salta and nearly one at Old Trafford) so we'll put that to one side. Now as per your argument above, let's take away a quality he supposedly does offer, his scrummaging. Now all we're left with is the fact that he's a big lump, has a bad temperament and knock-ons aplenty in England colours. But I'm sure he'll get his chance at some point.
His lineout isn't actually that bad, he has a few wonky moments, he's a far better prospect than Mears, who, as I said, has gone missing again the top tier sides every time he's played them.

Quote:Cornish Pixie
he does get knocked back in the tackle
You must have been looking at Hartley if you saw that, particularly in the Autumn. That's if he wasn't knocking on, arguing with the ref after conceding a penalty or getting turned over on the floor with ease.
Quote:Cornish Pixie
and i have heard the shout from many quarters that his lack of size causes issues in the scrum, particularly for Sheridan
Doesn't seem to be a problem with the Bath scrum.
BRW, once again you've written complete diahorrea, Mears was the form hooker before the first test, and got 50 minutes with the ineffectual Alun Wyn Jones up his @#$%& before Shaw rocked up and help solidify the lions scrum in the second and third tests. Hartly, was probably most culpable for the loss in Salta, as a lost lineout cost us terriotry then points in the first 5 mins. I would still give him a chance because his weakness is fixable, whereas Mears' isn't.
As for Ellis if he'd have come on instead of O'Gara in the second test I believe we'd have won, neither Phillips nor Ellis would have missed the tackle on Jacques Fourie, never mind the moment of madness.
I realise I'm arguing against the majority on this board, but there you go.
It is right to say that Hartleys throwing is inconsistent, but if this is his weak point then why is he not spending 3 hours a day throwing a ball at chalk marks on a wall?
If he is doing that then its clearly not working, and England need to look elsewhere for a 2.
At the risk of sounding like David Steele, I kind of agree with most opinions here. I do think Mears size causes some problems at Scrum time for England. But, there are two possible solutions to that, a)change your hooker. b)change your props. I also think it true that despite these srummaging issues, Mears is currenty the best Enlgish hooker so deserves his place. For upcoming AI's I would be selecting Hartley to start, not because Mears doesn't deserve his place, but we have to learn if we think Harltey is likely to realise his potential at test level. We have to develop more than one option, international players do not develop by being allowed game time agaisnt Italy in 6N and Samoa in AI's
Unhappiness, where's when I was young
And we didn't give a damn
'Cause we were raised
To see life as a fun and take it if we can
BRW, try reading what the post says not want what you want it to say.
I just wish theyd get on with it. They could have done it a year ago.
Quote:whingebasher
I just wish theyd get on with it. They could have done it a year ago.
During and straight after a season of high quality ND1 action? Right. They did the sensible thing and brought him off the bench throughout the 6N and AI's, letting him get used to Test match rugby, whilst Mears who was and still is the best English hooker around, got the starts he deserved.
But why let the facts and common sense get in the way of a predictably boring whinge from our resident whinger?
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2009:07:14:22:41:46 by Patrick.
Quote:SirBurger
I am English, but this is just biased beyond belief. Heaslip a B and Sheridan and Vickery an A-? There is no way that Heaslip performed to the same level as Harry Ellis! Ridiculous!
I don't fully understand your post, are you complaining that Vickery and Sherian were rated too high, and/or that Ellis was better than Heaslip? I would say that Heaslip never had his greatest games, but did Ellis? Are you a Tigger perchance?
Quote:PatrickQuote:whingebasher
I just wish theyd get on with it. They could have done it a year ago.
During and straight after a season of high quality ND1 action? Right. They did the sensible thing and brought him off the bench throughout the 6N and AI's, letting him get used to Test match rugby, whilst Mears who was and still is the best English hooker around, got the starts he deserved.
But why let the facts and common sense get in the way of a predictably boring whinge from our resident whinger?
I think Hartley needed more starts.
You dont.
Cant you just be happy with that, and not start throwing your toys around again?
Quote:SK 88
Poynton Shark, spot on.
BRW, try reading what the post says not want what you want it to say.
What I want you to say is -
"Yes, BRW, you are right! How foolish of me to ever have held a contrary view to your visionary mind. In fact, I wish to learn at your feet, oh Supreme Master. Also, here is a cheque for £1m as a payment in thanks for you having lifted the clouds obscuring the truth and light from my befuddled mind. Now, where is my free "Harris Ellis is rubbish" T-shirt and the beanie hat with "Hartley is the answer" on it for I must don the ceremonial garb and go forth into the streets to proclaim the one true way of the Battering Ram Winger and strike fear into the hearts of false prophets and the followers of the great Satan that men call Mike Tindall and also his accomplice, the lesser Satan Jamie Noon."


