London Welsh v London Scottish Preview


By Mark W-J
November 17 2011

Phase One of the Championship season reaches its midway point this weekend with round eleven of the league stage.  Recent results have seen the top eight clubs starting to break away from the four clubs currently occupying the four relegation play-off places, and a home win over our fellow Exiles on Saturday would see the Welsh holding a top-two position, in-line with the early-season objectives.

London Scottish were promoted to the Championship last season after an absence of thirteen years; they were promoted to the Premiership (then Allied Dunbar Premiership One) in 1998, the year we reclaimed our place in level two.  The events of that season amongst the elite are well-documented, the subsequent demotion of nine leagues to Herts & Middlesex One - where the London Welsh Amateurs began life last season - a cruel punishment and a warning to those with ambitions and aspirations beyond their means.  The club’s website makes little mention of the brief flirtation with professionalism; their Wikipedia page has no record of their league history prior to 1999.  Yet the amateur club rose again, four promotions in as many seasons elevating them to the brink of the National Leagues in 2004; a further three promotions in the last five years have brought them back to the professional environment.

While our objective for the season is to win promotion, you feel that Scottish would be happy to consolidate at this level and - rather like Bedford and Rotherham - they’d prefer not to push themselves back into the Premiership arena.  This perceived lack of ambition appears to be at odds with the Championship clubs’ wishes to be seen as ‘Premiership Two’; to demonstrate that the gulf between the top two levels of the game is closing year-by-year.  Yet there are many who believe that the professional game is still in, if not its infancy, a development phase - sixteen years have passed since the late Vernon Pugh declared the game ‘open’, and only three top-flight clubs have ever declared a profit in that time.  On the one hand the rich are getting richer, but on the other we aren’t seeing enough public interest and enough income at a domestic level to expand the professional game to level two.  One or two clubs are pursuing the Hollywood dream of ‘If you build it, they will come’ but those who’ve tried and failed and only just survived to tell the tale are in no rush to repeat their past mistakes, and while I may doing Scottish a disservice here, you wouldn’t blame them for harbouring more modest ambitions of being ‘the best semi-professional club in the country’.

After ten rounds of fixtures, Scottish sit in 10th place in the table, level with Plymouth on 18 points but behind the Devon club by virtue of three wins to their rivals’ four.  The seven defeats have, however, yielded four losing bonus points, more than any other team, and two try bonuses is as many as Leeds, Nottingham, Plymouth and Esher put together.  Two of their three victories have come against the teams below them in the table - 37-21 v Moseley, and 32-17 v Esher - while their best result was the opening day win over Rotherham, 16-11.  Their defeats at home to the Pirates (23-25) and at Plymouth (25-29) were both the result of conceding last-minute tries; Scottish have conceded more tries in the final quarter than everyone bar Bedford, and only Welsh and Rotherham have scored more in the last 20 minutes.  Ed Jackson has now been joined at the top of the try-scoring charts by Pirates’ winger David Doherty who failed to impress during a brief spell on-loan at ODP from Wasps four years ago, while Scottish fly-half Dan Mugford, a summer signing from Cambridge, has the best individual haul with 24 points versus Moseley (two tries, a conversion and four penalties).  With three wins from six at the Athletic Ground they have collected more points at home than the Welsh - although in mitigation we’ve won two and drawn one of just four home games to date.  Only Esher (0 from 4 games) and - surprisingly -Bedford (8 from 4), have earned fewer points at home than our 12; yet the Blues have the best away haul (25 from 6), with the Dragons in second (21 from 6).

As Scottish have climbed back up the ranks the club has become home to many former London Welsh players who had been looking to drop down to enjoy their rugby with a lower level of physicality and commitment.  Their current squad includes Tim Holgate, Aaron Liffchak, Adam Kwasnicki, Ben Thomas & Anthony Andrews, while others who made the short journey to the Athletic Ground in recent years include Gareth Swales, Matt Vines, Duncan Hayward, Rory Greenslade-Jones, Lee Cholewa, Owain Walbyoff, Andy Fahey, Steve Millard, Lorne Ward, Colm Hannon, Matt Baker, Dan Beard, Dave Ramsay, Matt Fitzgerald and the legendary Jonathan Pettermerides.  Guy Armitage has recently been dual-registered with Scottish, despite having been originally announced as one of the London Irish players to be DR’d with us this season.  To be fair, centre is one position where we have a fair amount of strength-in-depth with Whatling, Tonga’uiha, Mackey, Jewell and the versatile James Lewis: it has also been suggested by the LI fans that our squad is so strong that their loan and DR players are struggling to make an impact at ODP, hence the decision to re-register Guy at Scottish.  He scored on his debut at Nottingham at the end of last month, becoming - I believe - the first player to represent all three Exiles clubs in league rugby.

Our clubs have already met once this season, Welsh scoring five converted tries in the 44-9 win at the RAG in a B&I cup tie in September.  This will be the first league meeting since the 1989-90 season, when Scottish were promoted from Courage Three as unbeaten Champions, while our fate was sealed on the final day of the season when defeat at Wakefield’s College Grove saw the Yorkshiremen earn the second promotion spot and sent us spiralling towards oblivion.  Well, that’s how it felt at the time - we eventually clawed our way back up to where we felt we belonged, and it’s great to welcome back old friends who have suffered even more extreme emotions in their journey up and down the leagues.  Their tale should be a reminder of the dangers of flying too close to the sun, but at the moment we’re still enjoying the view as we try to edge ever higher.

 

Former LW Player Anthony Andrews in defence against Nottingham



London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: The Dragons\\\' Den (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2011 10:37

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Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2011 12:44

At the request of the rugby club here is a reminder:

Kick off time changed to 2pm for this match!

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: paddytaf (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2011 16:06

This Saturday promises to be a cracker. I am delighted to see LONDON SCOTTISH back where they belong. PADDYTAF (Sm60)(Sm128)

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: Haydn2 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2011 19:20

Really looking forward to this one. With both Quins and Richmond playing away from home, encourage local people to come and experience Old Deer Park!

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2011 12:11

London Welsh: 15. Seb Jewell, 14. Will Hurrell, 13. Hudson Tonga’uiha*, 12. Simon Whatling, 11. Joe Ajuwa, 10. Gordon Ross*, 9. Rob Lewis, 1. Shawn Pittman*, 2. Vili Ma’asi*, 3. Billy Moss, 4. Adam Brown, 5. Martin Purdy, 6. Ed Siggery, 7. Mike Denbee, 8. Lee Beach.
Replacements: 16. Nathan Morris, 17. Marc George, 18. Mike Powell, 19. Ed Jackson, 20. Ben Stevenson, 21. Alex Davies, 22. Edd Thrower.

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: Mark W-J (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2011 12:50

Nathan Morris is a Wasps hooker who has been on-loan at Rosslyn Park in recent weeks. Mark George is a former Rotherham prop who joined th Irish this summer.

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: paddytaf (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2011 15:28

I think that Seb Jewell is a very good signing for LONDON WELSH but with all due respect he is not a full back. This is one position in the squad that we do not have any cover. Please let me be completely wrong about this as i really do hope that Seb comes up trumps. PADDYTAF (Sm60)(Sm128)

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: Mark W-J (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2011 15:35

Seb reminds me of James Hook in the respect that we can all see what a potent attacking threat he is, but we just can't find the right place for him. He's often been played at inside centre because, while he's a good fly-half we have more 'dependable' options. And now he's been shunted out to full-back because we need his attacking presence on the field, but that's a position from where he's less likely to create the defensive panic that he can at 10 or 12.

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: dottigirl (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2011 01:13

Sidenote: I'm sure I saw Dan George walking into Culverhouse Cross' Tesco tonight. Or his double.

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: Haydn2 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2011 17:30

just got back from the game.....the proverbial win with the last kick....not sure my blood pressure can cope with many more games like that....

http://www.inspiremebks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/faint.jpg

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: TC08 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2011 19:14

We were lucky, and dreadful.
How did we manage to butcher so many chances , and why couldn't we work out how to complete a set scrum to the ref's satisfaction?

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: Dockman (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2011 22:47

Spot on TC08. Can't someone teach the present squad to pass a rugby ball? No wonder John Dawes stayed in the pavilion!! Lyn Jones should burn his blackboard or whatever and keep the players out on the pitch until they can give and take a pass. Not too much to ask of professionals surely.

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: DanFW3 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/11/2011 01:22

Hard to put a finger on why we seemed bested in the scrum, though we were missing some regulars. Joe Ajuwa had a good game and seemed the one player with the right attitude throughout; rightly Man of the Match and not just a rota award! But we blew a 7 against 4 in front of the stand and on another occasion muffed a fancy behind the back pass. Focus on the basics, run straight, draw the opposition in to free up the wings, and don't give away possession needlessly - and hold your passes. Simple, really (says he who hasn't played in nearly 50 years, and then at no more than house match level).

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: londonbound (IP Logged)
Date: 20/11/2011 09:38

I think they missed that trip to limpston, as intergrating 15 or more players is now showing! They are certainly not bound as tightly as last year! And we miss Jon Mills for his dogged edge and leadership!

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: Crug Mawr (IP Logged)
Date: 20/11/2011 22:31

A troubling performance yesterday. A succession of penalties in the front row and repeated handling errors in open play and in contact made difficult viewing.

For all the evident talents of many individuals I don't see a team.

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: DanFW3 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/11/2011 23:42

2,290 gate - didn't it feel better!

There were a few seats still available in the stand for those who peered hard enough, and I didn't hear people grumbling about there being no stand behind the posts facing the Pagoda end. It seems the excitement of a match outweighs the quality of the seating, though a better standard of play would have enhanced the experience further. Nobody can argue it wasn't close right up to the final whistle. If only we could sustain this level of gate through the winter where I fear drops back to 850.

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 22/11/2011 22:11

After a couple of days of reflection I still can't come up with many positives other than the fact it was a win.

The set pieces were dire, a lot of the positioning was dreadful (how many times did we see the backs drawn into rucks and forwards left covering the midfield?), handling poor, overlaps missed and so on.

Replacements at 60 minutes appeared to have been decided before the game and weren't a reaction to what had happened on the pitch. If Gordon Ross was concussed to the extent he couldn't remember a chunk of the game (as it says in the article on the main site) then why wasn't Alex Davies put on? He'd had a couple of good performances in recent weeks. The distribution through the half backs to the centres and wings was increasingly slow and didn't give them room to create much.

Seb Jewell was my MotM despite proving that I was wrong and we do have cover at 15 if Ed Thrower isn't playing! Hope that the sight of him on crutches at the end of the match was due to the physios being cautious and not a sign of a more serious injury.

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2011 07:58

Lyn delighted with performance!

[www.london-welsh.co.uk]

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: Mark W-J (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2011 08:52

When Ross takes the ball he's already moving laterally and looking over his outside shoulder, so the momentum of the attack is towards the touchline. I've said time and time again that nobody has the ability to look up and run straight lines. As has been mentioned above, draw the defender and give the pass to a man in space. We butchered what looked like at twelve on one overlap because the ball carrier always makes a beeline for the cornerflag, allowing the drift cover to use the touchline as an extra defender, so by the time the ball gets to the winger he's balancing on a tightrope in order to stay in-field. And that's when we get the winger cutting inside to take the pass and falling over his centre's feet.

And finally... my six year old and I were practicing throwing and catching a ball in the garden on Sunday morning - he could teach a few of the professionals a thing or two.

Positives: we won.

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: mario (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2011 09:59

Spot on!! 'Gordon the crab, 'follow me' we'll all drift across. I don't normally comment on this site. Am positioned behind the post at all the home games and the view from this position highlight's what Mark is alluding to. His kicking however was perfect. Coaches like myself drill into youngster's to cut out the drifter,crab, coming across, for me the centre's are partly to blame for allowing him to cut across into valuable space, simple answer, cut his angle down, straighten him up.

BACK TO BASICS....am also a basic level 2 coach, it doesn't take a genius, "rugby, a simple game"

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: Ellie Crisell (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2011 13:06

I wasn't at the game, but reading this thread, I can only see two positives, the win and the attendance.

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: Newest Sir Benfro (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2011 13:32

I find it hard to criticise Gordon Ross for his alleged crabbing. If you watch modern 10's they are all looking for runners who are either going to provide a dummy run or who may be fed the ball to attack gaps in opposition defences.

So- Gordon ( and others) run those lateral lines deliberately on many occcasions. On other occasions ( often when we have fast ball ) his angle of attack is much straighter as the key opportunity then is fast passing down the line

Look at Stephen Jones, Jonny Wilkinson, Trin Duhc... all run sideways as well as forwards

Can you tell I was a forward ??? (Sm111)

Re: London Welsh v London Scottish Preview
Posted by: mario (IP Logged)
Date: 23/11/2011 19:43

"Can you tell I was a forward ???" Yes, the players you refer to are all kicking outside half's.

Of course we are all happy with the win, the big crowd, however from a rugby prospective, lets win with style, and not make it hard work for the spectators to watch.

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