London Welsh v Bath Preview
By Mark W-J
November 1 2012
On Sunday London Welsh look to put an end to a three-match losing streak in the Premiership when Bath visit the Kassam. We’ve lost four consecutive home matches in all competitions since recording our maiden top-flight victory against Exeter Chiefs on September 16th, and haven’t lost three home league games in a row since Nottingham, Coventry and the Pirates won at ODP in November/ December 2008.
Bath are the last of the four new league opponents for us this season, those four clubs all having spent each of the 25 years of league rugby in the top flight. They have, however, been our most regular opponents in cup competitions, with five previous meetings including, of course, the final at Twickenham in our centenary year, 1985. The crowd of 32,000 was one third more than had witnessed Bath’s first cup triumph against Bristol twelve months earlier, and was - at the time - the second biggest crowd to witness a club match in England. They saw a dominant Bath side, containing nine internationals, take an 18-0 lead in the opening period, with tries from David Trick and Gareth Chilcott, both converted by John Palmer, who added two penalties for good measure. In the second half, however, Welsh fought back, with Mark Douglas and Bob Ackerman leading the way, and as we gained the upper hand so Colyn Price profited with five successful penalties. Palmer replied with two of his own, and Bath ran out deserved 24-15 winners as they began a period of domestic dominance that included 10 cup wins in 13 years (1984-1996) and six championships in the first nine years of league rugby (1988-1996). Furthermore, in 1998 they became the first English club to win the Heineken Cup, as full-back Jon Callard scored all of their points in a 19-18 win over Brive in Bordeaux, kicking the decisive penalty in the second minute of injury time.
Gordon Ross lines up
a penalty kick against Wasps
The first meeting of our two clubs took place on 27th December 1897 at the Rec, which was also the venue the last time we met, in a pre-season friendly just three months ago. The last competitive fixture was a fourth round cup tie on 14th February 1987, which Bath won 30-4, while they also recorded their biggest win in the series that season, the 53-16 scoreline surpassing the 40-9 drubbing we’d experienced at ODP just three years earlier. Our last victory in the cup was by a margin of 28-18 in a first round tie at ODP in February 1979, when Neil Bennett comprehensively outplayed his counterpart, Nigel Horton, in what was billed as an unofficial trial for the England jersey for the upcoming Five Nations, while our biggest victory in the series was 54-0 at ODP in 1971-72, featuring ten tries, two of which started behind our own posts and passed through all fifteen pairs of hands. Little wonder that an estimated 10,000 people (officially 7,995) crammed into ODP the following weekend for the curtain-raiser with Cardiff ahead of the biennial Wales win at Twickenham.
The signing of Tom Voyce last week has increased the number of former Bath players in the London Welsh squad to ten, with Nick Scott, Billy Moss, Jon Mills, Ed Jackson, Martin Purdy, Simon Whatling, Matt Keyte, Paulica Ion and Daniel Browne also having spent varying amounts of time at the Rec. In the Bath squad, prop Charlie Beech and flanker Guy Mercer, who both featured in the ‘A’ League fixture at Imber Court last weekend, have previously made loan appearances for the Welsh. Mercer made six appearances in the 2009-10 season, scoring three tries, including the decisive last-minute score to beat Exeter at ODP, while Beech - who probably hates the suffix ‘son-in-law of Ian McGeechan’ - made twelve league appearances (five starts) on-loan from Wasps across two seasons in 2008.
Tom Voyce on his LW 1st XV debut
Bath currently sit in sixth place in the Premiership table on 19 points, with four wins and three defeats from their seven matches. Three of those wins have come at the Rec, where they beat Exeter Chiefs last weekend, while their only victory on the road came on the opening weekend, when they beat Worcester, 24-23, courtesy of eight Olly Barkley penalties, the last of which came from the final play of the game. They’ve also beaten Wasps (30-23) and Sale (31-10) at home, while their only other away win in the last twelve months came at Sandy Park in February, where they emerged with a 12-9 victory to extend an unbeaten record against the Chiefs which stretches back to 1978.
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Bath Hooker Lee Mears
Capped 42 times for England
Like London Welsh, Bath are competing in the Amlin Challenge Cup this season, although unlike Welsh they have won both of their opening fixtures fairly comfortably. Four of the English clubs in the competition - Bath, London Irish, Wasps and Worcester - have collected the maximum 10 points from the first two rounds, while Gloucester have dropped just one point, failing to score four tries away to the French Pro14’s basement club, Mont de Marsan. It’s been interesting to watch how the established Premiership clubs have been able to rotate their squads for the Amlin matches yet remain not just competitive but dominant against the lesser French clubs and minor Italian, Spanish & Romanian opposition. Those four clubs with the maximum 10 points in the bag were all in the bottom half of the table before the Premiership took a fortnight’s break for European competition, but recording back-to-back wins of such magnitude - Worcester have scored 27 tries and have a points difference of +167 - has given them a massive confidence boost that they’ve been able to carry back into the domestic competition.
Wing Kyle Eastmond
Three tries for Bath this season
For Welsh, the Amlin was an opportunity to rest the front-line players who had played solidly throughout the opening month or so - thirteen players had been named in the starting XV for at least five of the opening six rounds - meaning that players who had been limited to Monday night appearances in the ‘A’ League were thrust into action in Europe. One almighty hammering against Stade Francais - the biggest home defeat in the club’s history - and a nervy victory over Cavalieri Prato, a club which had suffered bonus-point defeats in its last 12 Amlin Cup matches, has dented Welsh’s confidence at a time when our rivals have a real spring in their step, and with the two clubs below us in the table - Sale and London Irish - meeting at Salford on Friday night, we need to start picking up wins. The back-to-back victories over Exeter and Sale showed that we can be competitive, but with a small squad we know that realistically our best XV (or XXIII) can’t be expected to get those results week-in, week-out. With the league making way for the opening two rounds of LV Cup fixtures after this weekend, we desperately need some points to lift our mood and our self-assurance..
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Referee: Andrew Small
Assistant referees: Nigel Carrick, Stuart Terheege
Timekeeper (4th official): Anthony Turner
Assessor: Ed Morrison
plus:
There are no trains from Clapham Junction to Richmond on Sunday so allow extra time if catching the coach from ODP.
Neil Bennett was up against John Horton in 1979.
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Indeed, never in the field of rugby conflict has so much depended on so few...
PADDYTAF.
"GIVE THEM NO BALL OR BAD BALL WELSH"
Quote:Pink P
Arguably the first time Mark has got a fact incorrect!
Neil Bennett was up against John Horton in 1979.
"Our last victory in the cup was by a margin of 28-18 in a first round tie at ODP in February 1979, when Neil Bennett comprehensively outplayed his counterpart, Nigel Horton, in what was billed as an unofficial trial for the England jersey for the upcoming Five Nations"
PADDYTAF.
"GIVE THEM NO BALL OR BAD BALL WELSH"
Quote:Mark W-JQuote:Pink P
Arguably the first time Mark has got a fact incorrect!
Neil Bennett was up against John Horton in 1979.
"Our last victory in the cup was by a margin of 28-18 in a first round tie at ODP in February 1979, when Neil Bennett comprehensively outplayed his counterpart, Nigel Horton, in what was billed as an unofficial trial for the England jersey for the upcoming Five Nations"
And it hasn't been edited since the article was published!
Mark maintains his 100% accuracy....
15 Nick Abendanon
14 Kyle Eastmond
13 Matt Banahan
12 Ben Williams
11 Tom Biggs
10 Stephen Donald
9 Michael Claassens
1 Paul James
2 Lee Mears
3 Anthony Perenise
4 Dominic Day
5 Dave Attwood
6 Stuart Hooper ( c )
7 Will Skuse
8 Ben Skirving
Replacements
16 Brett Sharman
17 Charlie Beech
18 Kane Palma-Newport
19 Will Spencer
20 Guy Mercer
21 Mark McMillan
22 Sam Vesty
23 Horacio Agulla
15. Tom Arscott
14. Nick Scott
13. Sonny Parker*
12. Gavin Henson*
11. Tom Voyce*
10. Gordon Ross*
9. Nick Runciman
1. Tom Bristow
2. Neil Briggs
3. Paulica Ion*
4. Martin Purdy
5. Matt Corker
6. Jonathan Mills (c)
7. Michael Hills
8. Lee Beach.
Replacements:
16. Dan George
17. Bill Moss
18. Arthur Joly
19. Adam Brown
20. Mike Denbee
21. Tyson Keats
22. Seb Jewell
23. James Lewis
Quote:Mark W-JQuote:Pink P
Arguably the first time Mark has got a fact incorrect!
Neil Bennett was up against John Horton in 1979.
"Our last victory in the cup was by a margin of 28-18 in a first round tie at ODP in February 1979, when Neil Bennett comprehensively outplayed his counterpart, Nigel Horton, in what was billed as an unofficial trial for the England jersey for the upcoming Five Nations"
Scorers for Wales were Jeff Squires and Elgan 'Inter City' Rees.
Quote:nld
Lots of experience from 10 through to 13 but lack of pace could be an issue. Expect Bath might fancy a running game with lots of pressure down the centre early on so our defence will have to be on form.
Couldn't agree more, thats pretty much been Baths way this season so far, lets hope we can hold on to them first half as they do tend to fade second half, when we have been consistantly strong.
We will miss Montanella but hey with the epic play he has been putting in he must be due a rest.
Glad to see Gordon Ross getting a start as he has been putting in some great performances and only really lost his place to accomodate Henson at 10 , no problem with Henson at 12 but can only presume Tonga Uiha is injured as he hasn't featured in the 4 games now.
All in all a pretty strong side but they will have to tighten up their game from last week .
Quote:nld
Lots of experience from 10 through to 13 but lack of pace could be an issue. Expect Bath might fancy a running game with lots of pressure down the centre early on so our defence will have to be on form.
Selection is Greening vintage from 4-10. Tend to agree about the lack of pace.
At the pre-season game at Bath I didn't feel the Bath supporters in my section had much love for Banahan, but he will undoubtably pose a major threat at 13 and suspect Sonny will have a busy afternoon.
Pleased to see Gordon at 10 and have been very impressed with his place and tactical kicking as well as his defence this season.
Quote:Crug Mawr
Selection is Greening vintage from 4-10.
Hadn't picked up on that but a quick search of the message board shows quite a few games in 2009/10 with six of the seven in the starting line up and sometimes the other on the bench.
Scorers for Wales were Jeff Squires and Elgan 'Inter City' Rees.
It's PADDYTAF. Not plain PADDY. And it wasn't Elgan Rees but Alan Phillips the Cardiff and WALES hooker who scored the second try. Which i have already said. I'm not 100% sure but 100% certain that i am correct. If however my old age and bad memory have caused a senior moment to intervene and make me talk dribble then i of course apologise. PADDYTAF.
"GIVE THEM NO BALL OR BAD BALL WELSH"
Sale 15 London Irish 3
Just 4 points behind now.
Mike Denbee has gone a bit under the radar this season but to have a natural 7 on the bench like him adds a lot to our back row options.
Really need a win now.
Quote:GMH1
I'd agree with that. I also think that's why we've got Gav at 12 to give a 10/12 kicking option to try and play a more tactical territory based game where the forwards can continue to shine (even without Big Franck!)
Really need a win now.
Indeed - gives us tactical and place kicking options and as nld says we have a variety of options off the bench,
"We are going to be doing a happy hour from 12 to 13-30
We've got 8 different ales on, lots of brains, pride of Oxfordshire. Plenty of choice and you'll be served in no time at all.
Any 2 pints for a fiver. "
Let's make sure the bus leaves on time at 1200 to get to the Priory by 1330 .!!!
Does that mean SARACENS will be at the KASSAM on Sunday????? PADDYTAF.
"GIVE THEM NO BALL OR BAD BALL WELSH"
Personally I slightly prefer that line up but a bit of a shameto see Gordon ross moved back to the bench as he has been pretty good all season. Maybe a few less options from the bench but I think probably a stronger starting 15
Our pack was oustanding, solid defence against some sustained pressure in the first half and at the start of the second and they gave us our best chances of scoring form open/set piece play and also won a couple of scrums against the head.
Not sure the ref had a handle at the scrum and seemed to be making it up a bit on both sides.
Tyson Keats a well deserved MOTM controled our play well and made some great tackles back. Arscott was the safest pair of hands you could have wanted at 15 and ran a few good balls back.
All in all good solid play from the whole team which kept us in the game for when the breakaway chance came. was so pleased the interception came to Nick Scott as he was probaly only one of a couple who could have run that distance back to score.
Let well pleased after a deserved and crucial win.
Our defence was the difference in both halves - keeping them off the line and frustrating their chances every time. Keates had a great game, but sitting in the Block 1 cheap seats as I was I had the chance to see a lot of Tom Voyce in the first half, and I think his presence made a massive difference to the run of play. Ik now he's getting on for a back, but he oozes class...
Roll on next Sunday.
Slightly off-topic, but have you noticed how we're almost an afterthought on ITV4's coverage on a Sunday evening? I know we usually play on Sundays, which makes it highly unlikely that we'll be one of the featured matches, but even the game against Saracens, which was televised by ESPN, got no more than two minutes' airtime. If I were a cynic I'd say that Premier Rugby don't want to draw attention to the fact that a) we're in the Premiership and b) we're actually doing rather well.
Quote:Mark W-J
A lot of people have praised the defensive effort yesterday, and I reckon it's the first game this season in which we haven't conceded a try. Another mini-milestone achieved.
Slightly off-topic, but have you noticed how we're almost an afterthought on ITV4's coverage on a Sunday evening? I know we usually play on Sundays, which makes it highly unlikely that we'll be one of the featured matches, but even the game against Saracens, which was televised by ESPN, got no more than two minutes' airtime. If I were a cynic I'd say that Premier Rugby don't want to draw attention to the fact that a) we're in the Premiership and b) we're actually doing rather well.
The only certainty in the coverage is that we will be the last game covered, it will be brief and is devoid of any 'expert analysis', not that the programme is heavy on that and not that I think it adds much value, but nonetheless the coverage is at best superficial.
Quote:Crug Mawr
but nonetheless the coverage is at best superficial.
That pretty much sums up the ITV highlights show. Its a bit poor that they don't even show all of the points in their "featured2 games.
Still we knows cos we were there!!
As a complete aside, bumped into three of the Russian national side that were here playing Oxford university, ended up having a couple of beers and then going for a meal with them. Even taught them a bit of Welsh and gave them our leeks to suprise Kingsley Jones in the morning.
As to the rest I don't know.
I too would like to have seen Ross and Henson on together.
I initially thought Hudson had a bit of a quiet game, not making so many of his runs, but having watched the game again he put in a fair shift down doing his fair share of the scrapping work at the breakdown.Maybe right about the fitness he looked completely knackered in the bar after the match.
As you say the ITV coverage is devoid of any "expert analysis". Martin Bayfield though does know about rugby and fully understands the game. As for that Craig Doyle though he knows absolutely nothing about rugby and hasn't got a clue what he is talking about coupled with the fact that his presenting skills are nil. PADDYTAF.
"GIVE THEM NO BALL OR BAD BALL WELSH"
Quote:Ah but if it wasn't for him my mrs probably wouldn't allow me to interupt her tv viewing schedule..... He's 'kind on the eye' as far as she's concerned.paddytaf
As for that Craig Doyle though he knows absolutely nothing about rugby and hasn't got a clue what he is talking about coupled with the fact that his presenting skills are nil.
PADDYTAF.
"GIVE THEM NO BALL OR BAD BALL WELSH"
[www.premiershiprugby.tv]
although the commentary is pure ****.
And of course, the excellent Snedds has been at it with the gifs again:
[twitpic.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012:11:05:18:40:58 by dottigirl.
To be honest, the highlights wouldn't have been too lengthy even if Lyn Jones edited them- the game yesterday provided a terrific result but was pretty flaccid and full of directionless kicking. Don't get me wrong, the result was all that matters, but lets not kid ourselves into thinking it was a Ba-bas style feast of running rugby.
Begs the question, why not just publish on Monday?
Quote:Dai Port Talbot
The Rugby Paper has a similarly short memory. Seems unable to report on matches which occurred the previous Sunday. This extends to Internationals too.
Begs the question, why not just publish on Monday?
TRP used to report our Sunday Championship matches in the next week's paper, so they're not doing the same now? (I haven't bought it regularly this year.)
...now then, London Welsh then, another win then....last minute interception then....now then, points for Welsh agin then.....
Quote:DanFW3
The team as played was much different from that which Mark W-J posted at 12:10 on the 2nd. Was this gamesmanship by Lyn to gull Bath into planning for a Gordon-directed game or what? Is Sonny Parker not yet fit? Was it just me or was Hudson a bit subdued compared to his normal style and also perhaps a few pounds above par? The idea of both Henson and Ross playing together offers some interesting possibilities (quite apart from "I've got the ball and I'll do this place kick, stand back".
According to the Bath forum you are not alone in questioning the reason for so many changes. link
Black & bold - no change
Black & italics - positional
Red - not initially named at all, or named but not in actual squad - injured or recovery
Blue - brought in or dropped
Quote:Team initially announced
London Welsh:
15. Tom Arscott
14. Nick Scott
13. Sonny Parker* - injured - shoulder
12. Gavin Henson*
11. Tom Voyce*
10. Gordon Ross*
9. Nick Runciman
1. Tom Bristow
2. Neil Briggs
3. Paulica Ion*
4. Martin Purdy
5. Matt Corker
6. Jonathan Mills (c)
7. Michael Hills
8. Lee Beach.
Replacements:
16. Dan George
17. Bill Moss
18. Arthur Joly
19. Adam Brown
20. Mike Denbee
21. Tyson Keats
22. Seb Jewell
23. James Lewis
Quote:Actual
London Welsh:
15. Tom Arscott
14. Tom Voyce
13. Hudson Tonga’uiha
12. Seb Jewell
11. Nick Scott
10. Gavin Henson
9. Tyson Keats
1. Franck Montanella - recovered early
2. Neil Briggs
3. Paulica Ion
4. Martin Purdy
5. Kirill Kulemin
6. Jonathan Mills ©
7. Mike Denbee
8. Lee Beach.
Replacements:
16. Greg Bateman, for Denbee (65mins)
17. Tom Bristow, for Montanella (66mins)
18. Arthur Joly, for Ion (65mins)
19. Adam Brown, for Kulemin (78mins).
20. Daniel Browne for Beach (59mins)
21. Nick Runciman (not used)
22. Gordon Ross, for Henson (59mins)
23. James Lewis (not used)
Anyone want to fiddle with that? It looks like most changes were positional only.
To give LJ the benefit of the doubt, he's working with a small squad, he has to balance the EQ/NEQ players, and he knows which combinations work better than others. Not surprised by the change of starting second row with the addition of FM.
(Greening used to chop and change at last minute all the time, that was taking the ****.)
If you make 14 changes, even if most are just positional, then it's bound to generate attention even if the reasons are genuine.