Ground And Ground We Go
The Kassam-Still home?
By Dragons' Den
June 7 2013
So you thought the close season was going to be quiet, well think again, this is London Welsh and yet again we find ourselves amid, intrigue,rumour and speculation. We've had Tysongate, followed by a funding crisis and now the announcement that Lyn Jones is jumping ship.But a week after relegation was finally confirmed, the story that won't go away is where the club is going to lay it's hat next season.
The location of next seasons home ground still remains a mystery, with even the club admitting it still doesn't know where it will be based for the forthcoming season.
Rumours abound of splits in the boardroom over where to play and even that Tony Copsey's departure may in part have been attributed to conflicting opinions on the subject.
With the club last week, releasing a statement saying that two or three options were still up for consideration, the rumour mill has gone into overdrive, with obviously Old Deer Park, along with The Kassam, Oxford University's Iffley Road, Court Place Farm, home to Oxford City and even as far afield as Witney Town's old ground at Downs Road all being thrown into the mix.
None of the aforementioned grounds would appear to fulfil all of the criteria laid out by the chairman in his earlier statement, with regard to facilities,access and a possible future return to the premiership, combined with financial viability.
Quite obviously a strong debate has opened up between a return to ODP which has been home to London Welsh for so many years and by many is considered to be the spiritual home of the club and remaining in Oxford at an as yet to be decided venue. the waters are even further muddied by a secondary debate as to where would be a suitable venue should the club decide to stay in Oxford.
The argument has been bubbling under the surface for at least a couple of months now with Tony Copsey first making a statement through Dragons' Den, which strongly hinted at a return to ODP, in the event the club were relegated. Well two weeks later our backer announced he was pulling the plug and Tony Copsey was heading off into the sunset, maybe a coincidence , but Kelvin Byron's preference for Oxford has been a poorly kept secret.
Next Lyn Jones when asked was quoted as saying that London Welsh would one hundred percent be staying in Oxford next season and that he considered that an essential part of London Welsh's future success and that if the club were to show an ambition to succeed , he would still be at the club next season, now we see him following in Mr Copsey's footsteps, coincidence again or maybe an indication of the clubs future home?
In his earlier statement Bleddyn Phillips, the clubs chairman said they were close to doing a deal so where are the venues in the running and what are the pros and cons of each
ODP very much the spiritual home of London Welsh, with many of the function rooms even having either a London Welsh, Welsh or rugby connotation. There is currently also an un-expired lease to be taken into consideration,but there is a big problem over the grounds suitability for anything above championship rugby, with many questioning the commercial viability of the area.
The Kassam, our home for last years premiership foray, has facilities to rival most premiership sides, if lacking atmosphere, with all seats offering an unrivalled view of the pitch, together with parking and easy access to transport links. It could make a suitable long term home for London Welsh and is situated in an as, yet untapped commercial area , as far as rugby is concerned. The stadium however has been rumoured to have commanded a very high rent together with a reputedly awkward landlord together with little opportunity for the expansion of match day revenue
The other Oxford venues , like ODP all the possible remaining venues would probably not be suitable for anything above championship rugby and each have their own idiosyncrasies Oxford University's, Iffley Road stadium is a lovely compact little ground steeped in history and would have a perfect capacity, at around 3500, for championship rugby, but like the other options does lack off pitch facilities, but in it's favour is a great central location, within the city. However according to the University, no approach has been made by London Welsh as of yet.
Also briefly mentioned has been Oxford City's , Court Place Farm which having similar capacity to OURFC has poor transport links and is currently home to several amateur football teams , along with the main tenant, Oxford City F.C
The now disbanded Witney Town's, Downs Road Stadium has also been mentioned with rumours that London Welsh officials were seen there. the ground has the advantage of currently having no other tenants and a great club house combined within the main stand, however it is a long way along the road to nowhere with poor transport links and would only be the choice of a mad man.
However the way things have gone this past season it wouldn't surprise me if the club had somewhere completely different up it's sleeve, maybe exiled to another town or county altogether.
The club has said that it will be making an announcement within the next week or so, and that announcement will finally put the matter to rest, whilst also probably throwing some light on the club's long term ambitions on the field.
Until that announcement comes what are your thoughts on the various options?
Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: The Dragons' Den (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 14:18
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Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 15:40
It's like a rugby version of Location, Location, Location!
Three properties in Oxford.
Kassam - way over budget, has zero kerb appeal and bigger than really needed. It also lacks the space for all the other things a modern rugby club needs on a day today basis.
OURFC - Definitely got the kerb appeal and location is spot on. But is it a 'forever home'?
Witney Town - Nees a bit of work doing, seems to tick most the boxes but location is terribly wrong. If only this property was in the centre of the city.....
Whatever the club management do they have to get it right this time. First thing is to shift the club office and training to Oxford as a matter of urgency and create a presence and show they want to be in the city for more than just two hours a week. If they don't do that then it will not matter where they are because it just won't work.
Second thing is to consider a change of name. Oxford Dragons, Oxford Welsh, Oxford Reds, Oxford Exiles - something that changes it from looking like a franchise that has pitched up in Oxford out of convenience and that will move on should circumstances change.
Three properties in Oxford.
Kassam - way over budget, has zero kerb appeal and bigger than really needed. It also lacks the space for all the other things a modern rugby club needs on a day today basis.
OURFC - Definitely got the kerb appeal and location is spot on. But is it a 'forever home'?
Witney Town - Nees a bit of work doing, seems to tick most the boxes but location is terribly wrong. If only this property was in the centre of the city.....
Whatever the club management do they have to get it right this time. First thing is to shift the club office and training to Oxford as a matter of urgency and create a presence and show they want to be in the city for more than just two hours a week. If they don't do that then it will not matter where they are because it just won't work.
Second thing is to consider a change of name. Oxford Dragons, Oxford Welsh, Oxford Reds, Oxford Exiles - something that changes it from looking like a franchise that has pitched up in Oxford out of convenience and that will move on should circumstances change.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Mark W-J (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 16:08
I don't agree with the name change. The London Irish brand is as strong as ever - perversely, in fact, their reputation as the 'Not Nots' has actually strengthened it - and Wasps didn't add the 'London' prefix until they moved out of the capital. I understand your point about 'looking like a franchise that has pitched-up and will move on should circumstances change' - but, in all honesty, I think that's the position we're in, and this would necessitate a name change every few years as we stumble from one outpost to the next.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: chappers (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 16:08
Indeed such a shame about the Witney site, has room for expansion, a spare training pitch, but will never be easy to get to. Probably contributed to Witney Towns downfall.
Not having a decent enough presence in Oxford last year was a big mistake. I have said this before but you at least need your marketing team to be on the ground and au fait with the local area. The community boys did their best, but are coaches not marketing people.
Becoming accepted in the local area is something that takes time and a forward looking plan, don't necessarily believe a change of name is entirely necessary, but a change of attitude most definitely is.
Not having a decent enough presence in Oxford last year was a big mistake. I have said this before but you at least need your marketing team to be on the ground and au fait with the local area. The community boys did their best, but are coaches not marketing people.
Becoming accepted in the local area is something that takes time and a forward looking plan, don't necessarily believe a change of name is entirely necessary, but a change of attitude most definitely is.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Oxfordwelsh (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 16:27
I've been staying away from the boards here for a bit, as it feels too much like intruding on private grief, however DD has raised some thought provoking points, which nld has amplified.
Taking the Oxford grounds first, Court Place Farm is a nice little ground, but overworked really for the addition of a rugby team. Iffley Road makes the most sense as a championship ground within the city, maybe as a sort of tag-team arrangement with the Kassam in the event of promotion.
Witney Town's ground, if it was in Oxford, would make the most sense - an uncontested long term home with scope for development, plenty of space, and a great clubhouse. But it's in Witney. If this is the way the club's mind is working and they happen to be reading this all I can say is "step away from the diesel oil." You'd struggle to get people from Oxford to go to Witney, let alone fans from London.
ODP is the emotional purist's choice - it's been the home of LW for so many years, and is totally bound up in the heritage of the sport, let alone the club. However, going back there would indicate a total curtailment of ambition and an acceptance of a future based on relying on the crumbs from the top table for as long as the club's income can wash its face. In the event of LW qualifying for a higher tier again, they would have to either refuse, or move again. So back to square one. An ambition of permanent tier 2 rugby may well satisfy the already bought in fans, but it's not going to be a massive help in recruiting new ones. So we come back to the circular argument that's been going on on these boards for weeks:
What do we want London Welsh to be? A rugby club or a social club with some rugby? Exactly the same question faces almost every rugby club in England, but there again almost every rugby club in England is not playing in the Prem or Champ so doesn't have to confront the hard decisions head on. To survive in tier 1 or 2, LW needs backers and fans; it has been stymied in the past by having one backer and not many fans, so the ratio has been totally skewed. Without backing, the natural level supported by fans contributions alone is probably well below the championship.
NLD raises some interesting points assuming the first team remains in Oxford. The top thing in those circumstances has to be commitment to the city. Demonstrable commitment. If you go and read my posts as the lonely LWRFC representative on the Oxford United forum, attempting to keep the peace and explain the crazy ways of the rugby fan to the football hordes over the last season, you'll see I've been totally consistent in saying the club shouldn't change the first team's name. I'm now starting to wonder.
Oxford RL are operating on a shoe string, but really working hard to be part of the city (and half their squad's travelling from Oldham every week for the matches). There is a real sense though that they are Oxford's team. I've never been a league fan, but I am becoming one. It's helped by the fact that unless they go bust, they're not going anywhere - so it's something a hell of a lot more tangible for the casual supporter to buy into.
God help us but there's been a couple of us who post on here who've spent the last year defending LW against acccusations of franchising and carpetbagging, in the pubs and clubs of Oxford; encouraging people to come and have a look; taking car loads up to the Kassam just to try and win converts. God knows what the marketing bods have been up to because Chappers and I have certainly done a lot for free - or at least that's what it feels like.
If LW go then I will obviously have been taken for a fool by the short termist money men, and good luck back at ODP. But if you come up here again in a couple of years don't expect the same level of goodwill - Oxford's people aren't just here as cash cows to be milked and taken advantage of when it suits. Oxford can be made to work, or ODP can be consolidated, but it's one or the other.
Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant by the end - it's been brewing for a while!
Taking the Oxford grounds first, Court Place Farm is a nice little ground, but overworked really for the addition of a rugby team. Iffley Road makes the most sense as a championship ground within the city, maybe as a sort of tag-team arrangement with the Kassam in the event of promotion.
Witney Town's ground, if it was in Oxford, would make the most sense - an uncontested long term home with scope for development, plenty of space, and a great clubhouse. But it's in Witney. If this is the way the club's mind is working and they happen to be reading this all I can say is "step away from the diesel oil." You'd struggle to get people from Oxford to go to Witney, let alone fans from London.
ODP is the emotional purist's choice - it's been the home of LW for so many years, and is totally bound up in the heritage of the sport, let alone the club. However, going back there would indicate a total curtailment of ambition and an acceptance of a future based on relying on the crumbs from the top table for as long as the club's income can wash its face. In the event of LW qualifying for a higher tier again, they would have to either refuse, or move again. So back to square one. An ambition of permanent tier 2 rugby may well satisfy the already bought in fans, but it's not going to be a massive help in recruiting new ones. So we come back to the circular argument that's been going on on these boards for weeks:
What do we want London Welsh to be? A rugby club or a social club with some rugby? Exactly the same question faces almost every rugby club in England, but there again almost every rugby club in England is not playing in the Prem or Champ so doesn't have to confront the hard decisions head on. To survive in tier 1 or 2, LW needs backers and fans; it has been stymied in the past by having one backer and not many fans, so the ratio has been totally skewed. Without backing, the natural level supported by fans contributions alone is probably well below the championship.
NLD raises some interesting points assuming the first team remains in Oxford. The top thing in those circumstances has to be commitment to the city. Demonstrable commitment. If you go and read my posts as the lonely LWRFC representative on the Oxford United forum, attempting to keep the peace and explain the crazy ways of the rugby fan to the football hordes over the last season, you'll see I've been totally consistent in saying the club shouldn't change the first team's name. I'm now starting to wonder.
Oxford RL are operating on a shoe string, but really working hard to be part of the city (and half their squad's travelling from Oldham every week for the matches). There is a real sense though that they are Oxford's team. I've never been a league fan, but I am becoming one. It's helped by the fact that unless they go bust, they're not going anywhere - so it's something a hell of a lot more tangible for the casual supporter to buy into.
God help us but there's been a couple of us who post on here who've spent the last year defending LW against acccusations of franchising and carpetbagging, in the pubs and clubs of Oxford; encouraging people to come and have a look; taking car loads up to the Kassam just to try and win converts. God knows what the marketing bods have been up to because Chappers and I have certainly done a lot for free - or at least that's what it feels like.
If LW go then I will obviously have been taken for a fool by the short termist money men, and good luck back at ODP. But if you come up here again in a couple of years don't expect the same level of goodwill - Oxford's people aren't just here as cash cows to be milked and taken advantage of when it suits. Oxford can be made to work, or ODP can be consolidated, but it's one or the other.
Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant by the end - it's been brewing for a while!
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Gray_Lensman (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 16:43
Actually London Wasps was called that before moving out. Apparently some bizarre marketing effort to show they were, at that that time, the only Premiership club with a London postcode! Unfortunately, most of us who live out in the countryside think a Twickenham postcode is also in London.
A change of name would be a disgraceful act, and I trust it is not seriously considered by the club. Moving you in an ill-considered way out to Oxford was bad enough.
Some years ago when it was mooted that Bristol were going to relocate to the Kassam. Clearly it wouldn't have remained Bristol and would have meant the end of the club. Fortunately(!), we were relegated and the whole terrible scheme fell apart. We've had our problems since, but at least we managed to keep our identity.
A change of name would be a disgraceful act, and I trust it is not seriously considered by the club. Moving you in an ill-considered way out to Oxford was bad enough.
Some years ago when it was mooted that Bristol were going to relocate to the Kassam. Clearly it wouldn't have remained Bristol and would have meant the end of the club. Fortunately(!), we were relegated and the whole terrible scheme fell apart. We've had our problems since, but at least we managed to keep our identity.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 17:07
London Irish moved and strengthened their brand because it's easy to produce everything in green, serve Guinness and 'be Irish'. They are a perpetual version of the St Patrick's Day that appears in every pub once a year. I'm not knocking that approach but it has much more chance of success than building a Welsh brand. This is possibly demonstrated by the lack of Welsh theme pubs!
Has the 'famous name' made the marketing lazy? There were numerous comments that LW in the Premiership would automatically attract huge crowds plus statements about rightful place at the top of the table etc. Would a fresh start clear that complacency, get local businesses involved and bring in the Oxford-based support who could truly consider it their main city/county club?
I don't follow the round ball game, but how did MK Dons manage their move? I'm sure that the change of name was critical and (from a quick Google) last season they got average crowds of 8,600 and were sixth in their league in terms of attendances. To me that seems pretty good for a team that play in the third tier of the league and less than a decade since they moved and were renamed.
Has the 'famous name' made the marketing lazy? There were numerous comments that LW in the Premiership would automatically attract huge crowds plus statements about rightful place at the top of the table etc. Would a fresh start clear that complacency, get local businesses involved and bring in the Oxford-based support who could truly consider it their main city/county club?
I don't follow the round ball game, but how did MK Dons manage their move? I'm sure that the change of name was critical and (from a quick Google) last season they got average crowds of 8,600 and were sixth in their league in terms of attendances. To me that seems pretty good for a team that play in the third tier of the league and less than a decade since they moved and were renamed.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Oxfordwelsh (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 17:22
Quote:nld
I don't follow the round ball game, but how did MK Dons manage their move? I'm sure that the change of name was critical and (from a quick Google) last season they got average crowds of 8,600 and were sixth in their league in terms of attendances. To me that seems pretty good for a team that play in the third tier of the league and less than a decade since they moved and were renamed.
Without getting too far into this (as I say being instinctively emotionally against changing), the economics for MK Dons very hard headedly said, change the name to get people behind you. It kept all the bitterness at the other end of the M40 (hence the success of AFC Wimbledon) and was predicated on the assumption that all the fans would have to be new fans - the old faithful didn't have to travel with the club from Wimbledon (and indeed it was assumed they weren't going to). In MK now, you've got a generation of their younger supporters who know of know time before the Dons were in town, and they are their local club.
Strikes me that the problem this past year is that LW has been neither a London or Oxford club trying to be both. The club managed to alienate a significant percentage of its London fans by moving up the M40 while at the same time saying nothing to the people of Oxford except "here we are, aren't we good" which, given the level of punditry expecting us not to win a game all season must at the least be summed up as a hopeful strategy.... The answer is one or the other as I said above - with all that that implies for the fans at either end of the motorway.
Part of me thinks that keeping London Welsh as the ODP based amateur operation whilst having an Oxford based *insert other name here* might be the only way to try and ride both horses successfully, much as I don't want to go down that road. No one really makes a big thing of the fact that LI are really LI, LS *AND* Richmond combined these days after all (outside the pubs of Richmond and Sunbury anyway....).
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 17:36
Quote:Oxfordwelsh
Strikes me that the problem this past year is that LW has been neither a London or Oxford club trying to be both. The club managed to alienate a significant percentage of its London fans by moving up the M40 while at the same time saying nothing to the people of Oxford except "here we are, aren't we good" which, given the level of punditry expecting us not to win a game all season must at the least be summed up as a hopeful strategy.... The answer is one or the other as I said above - with all that that implies for the fans at either end of the motorway.
Part of me thinks that keeping London Welsh as the ODP based amateur operation whilst having an Oxford based *insert other name here* might be the only way to try and ride both horses successfully, much as I don't want to go down that road. No one really makes a big thing of the fact that LI are really LI, LS *AND* Richmond combined these days after all (outside the pubs of Richmond and Sunbury anyway....).
I think that makes sense and would be clear way forward.
BTW, the LI shirt still has the LS and Richmond badges on it: link
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Newest Sir Benfro (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 19:52
Some random thoughts
1. We made the move to Oxford, we can't now go back
2. We need some local backers with a vested interest in making the club work in the City
3. Kelvins support has been incredible and I wonder if his cash is again keeping us afloat
4. However I fear he is both our biggest asset and our biggest obstacle to finding new, long term backing.
5. We had a 5 year plan which is now in tatters. Who put their name to that plan and then walked away when things went against us? I call that disrespectful.
6. The lack of clear communication from the Club is probably a result of confidence that current plans will hold together. But at least make a decision and tell us ASAP so we can personally decide if we wish to support that decision before we all wander off in confusion.
7. I fear the worst... That's the first time in 25 years of membership
1. We made the move to Oxford, we can't now go back
2. We need some local backers with a vested interest in making the club work in the City
3. Kelvins support has been incredible and I wonder if his cash is again keeping us afloat
4. However I fear he is both our biggest asset and our biggest obstacle to finding new, long term backing.
5. We had a 5 year plan which is now in tatters. Who put their name to that plan and then walked away when things went against us? I call that disrespectful.
6. The lack of clear communication from the Club is probably a result of confidence that current plans will hold together. But at least make a decision and tell us ASAP so we can personally decide if we wish to support that decision before we all wander off in confusion.
7. I fear the worst... That's the first time in 25 years of membership
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Rodger (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 21:13
MKD average 8,600 because they're a FOOTBALL team. Repine all you like but third tier rugby teams will never draw that. In fact, most first tier rugby teams don't which is why I cannot understand why anyone thinks that the Premiership is worth the investment, financially or emotionally. I've said it before, but abandoning everything in the club's history (including, if some of the posts here are to followed, the name) just so we can play the Harlequins twice a year is not only madness, but a betrayal of every LONDON Welshman.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: nld (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 21:35
Quote:Rodger
MKD average 8,600 because they're a FOOTBALL team. Repine all you like but third tier rugby teams will never draw that.
Of course they won't which is why I quoted the figures in comparison to the rest of their football league. It's an example of how a club can successfully move if it's handled well.
Quote:Rodger
In fact, most first tier rugby teams don't which is why I cannot understand why anyone thinks that the Premiership is worth the investment, financially or emotionally.
It isn't. But if someone wants to throw money at it then you'll not stop them.
Quote:Rodger
I've said it before, but abandoning everything in the club's history (including, if some of the posts here are to followed, the name) just so we can play the Harlequins twice a year is not only madness, but a betrayal of every LONDON Welshman.
And some will argue that's already happened!
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Rodger (IP Logged)
Date: 07/06/2013 21:59
nld
Perhaps
Correct
Correct
Perhaps
Correct
Correct
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: chappers (IP Logged)
Date: 12/06/2013 23:31
Just got back from Crete and I see in yesterdays Oxford Mail that serious discussions have finally opened up between LW and OURFC HERE But what are the club doing, they have until the 31st of July to inform the RFU of their home venue and still nothing has been finalised. OURFC may turn the cub down yet, however I have heard they would probably welcome the cash.
The worrying thing is that the manager at the Kassam is hinting that LW have gone a bit quiet on them. Surely the club should have benn investigating all these possibilities long ago.
I had heard that Firoka had said that LW would be welcome back in the event of future promotion. I hope that is true otherwise remaining in oxford would seem pointless, unless of course it is purely a rent/cost cutting exercise in the long term.
OURFC's commitee supposedly met a few days ago on the subject so we shall see, hopefully this will be resolved before the deadline otherwise we will have a straight decision between Kassam and ODP.
Bit disappointed with the clubs lassiez faire attitude to all this whilst no real disaster as we have two opitions open to us regardless but just once again shows the mangagemnt in a bad light.
The worrying thing is that the manager at the Kassam is hinting that LW have gone a bit quiet on them. Surely the club should have benn investigating all these possibilities long ago.
I had heard that Firoka had said that LW would be welcome back in the event of future promotion. I hope that is true otherwise remaining in oxford would seem pointless, unless of course it is purely a rent/cost cutting exercise in the long term.
OURFC's commitee supposedly met a few days ago on the subject so we shall see, hopefully this will be resolved before the deadline otherwise we will have a straight decision between Kassam and ODP.
Bit disappointed with the clubs lassiez faire attitude to all this whilst no real disaster as we have two opitions open to us regardless but just once again shows the mangagemnt in a bad light.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Oxfordwelsh (IP Logged)
Date: 13/06/2013 08:21
I saw that - frankly I don't care anymore where they choose, they just need to make a decision. It was "a week to ten days" a couple of weeks ago....
If it's ODP then the club needs to get on with mending fences with disgruntled fans from before the move. If it's Oxford then we're in danger of sleepwalking into exactly the same mess as last season - pitching up with seconds to spare and hoping for the best.
Agree the ground and the pre season friendlies can fall into place - but if it's going to be Oxford then there should be comms out already - posters in pubs, comment in the local papers, underlining a commitment to making it work. If it comes down to it, I'll do leaflets door to door for them gratis in the evenings when I get home from work. But for pity's sake get a move on!
If it's ODP then the club needs to get on with mending fences with disgruntled fans from before the move. If it's Oxford then we're in danger of sleepwalking into exactly the same mess as last season - pitching up with seconds to spare and hoping for the best.
Agree the ground and the pre season friendlies can fall into place - but if it's going to be Oxford then there should be comms out already - posters in pubs, comment in the local papers, underlining a commitment to making it work. If it comes down to it, I'll do leaflets door to door for them gratis in the evenings when I get home from work. But for pity's sake get a move on!
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Orange 2012 (IP Logged)
Date: 13/06/2013 17:10
No point doing anything too soon. After all if a deadline is missed you can always throw loads of money at lawyers in order to win a court case to get what you want .......... and then wonder later on why you have a cash problem.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: llewelyn (IP Logged)
Date: 13/06/2013 18:04
Quote:Orange 2012
No point doing anything too soon. After all if a deadline is missed you can always throw loads of money at lawyers in order to win a court case to get what you want .......... and then wonder later on why you have a cash problem.
If you read the rugby press a bit more closely you'd know that London Welsh's legal challenge last year was applauded by most people. At the end of the day we had to convince three QC's of the validity of our argument. They agreed with us and not the RFU.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: chappers (IP Logged)
Date: 13/06/2013 20:25
Quote:Orange 2012
No point doing anything too soon. After all if a deadline is missed you can always throw loads of money at lawyers in order to win a court case to get what you want .......... and then wonder later on why you have a cash problem.
It's not just about what we want it's proved to be whats fair, and don't get jealous but the legal work was done pro-bono.
Not sure where you have come from but Lw's financial difficulties were nothing to do with any legal fees as I pointed out.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: DanFW3 (IP Logged)
Date: 13/06/2013 23:26
We have been assured that money is in PAC for next season as is evidenced by some - in my view - astute recruiting appropriate for the Championship. Negotiations and consideration of venues is underway, we are told, and it is not a seller's market. To say more might prejudice the haggling.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Orange 2012 (IP Logged)
Date: 15/06/2013 13:34
Quote:chappersQuote:Orange 2012
No point doing anything too soon. After all if a deadline is missed you can always throw loads of money at lawyers in order to win a court case to get what you want .......... and then wonder later on why you have a cash problem.
It's not just about what we want it's proved to be whats fair, and don't get jealous but the legal work was done pro-bono.
Not sure where you have come from but Lw's financial difficulties were nothing to do with any legal fees as I pointed out.
And of course the lawyers didn't cost a penny did they?
Not sure what planet you have come from but if you believe that and are happy to see your club made a laughing stock by those in charge then goof for you. The rest of the rugby world will continue laughing.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Oxfordwelsh (IP Logged)
Date: 15/06/2013 14:13
Which bit of pro bono are you struggling with? How's your poodle btw?
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Newest Sir Benfro (IP Logged)
Date: 15/06/2013 15:34
I think his poodle ate the pro bonio....
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: taffy28d (IP Logged)
Date: 15/06/2013 16:29
Pedigree chump more like.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: chappers (IP Logged)
Date: 15/06/2013 18:29
Quote:Orange 2012
And of course the lawyers didn't cost a penny did they?
Not sure what planet you have come from but if you believe that and are happy to see your club made a laughing stock by those in charge then goof for you. The rest of the rugby world will continue laughing.
Not sure which rock you crawled out from under but all you seem to have done is trawl the forums knocking LW, please crawl off back there, theres a good lad.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Oxfordwelsh (IP Logged)
Date: 15/06/2013 20:02
...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:15:20:03:58 by Oxfordwelsh.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:15:20:03:58 by Oxfordwelsh.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Orange 2012 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/06/2013 14:02
Quote:chappersQuote:Orange 2012
And of course the lawyers didn't cost a penny did they?
Not sure what planet you have come from but if you believe that and are happy to see your club made a laughing stock by those in charge then goof for you. The rest of the rugby world will continue laughing.
Not sure which rock you crawled out from under but all you seem to have done is trawl the forums knocking LW, please crawl off back there, theres a good lad.
No need to emerge from a rock to spot a club being destroyed by it's management even if hugely unpleasant people like you can't see it.
Easy to see why people seem to have a very low opinion of you. Lad.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:17:14:05:49 by Orange 2012.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Oxfordshire exile (IP Logged)
Date: 20/06/2013 20:15
Cokethorpe School in Witney being lined up as a training venue.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: chappers (IP Logged)
Date: 20/06/2013 20:32
Interesting, what makes you think that
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Oxfordwelsh (IP Logged)
Date: 20/06/2013 20:55
So long as it's just for training. I'll say it again - playing matches in Witney would be utter insanity.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: metalman (IP Logged)
Date: 20/06/2013 21:50
but a lot cheaper for the players, richmond is pretty exp!
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: Ellie Crisell (IP Logged)
Date: 21/06/2013 13:31
Quote:Orange 2012No need to emerge from a rock to spot a club being destroyed by it's management even if hugely unpleasant people like you can't see it.
Easy to see why people seem to have a very low opinion of you. Lad.[/quote
Date Registered: 25/05/2013 18:15
You appear to be a bit of a cock.
Re: Ground And Ground We Go
Posted by: chappers (IP Logged)
Date: 24/06/2013 12:53
.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:12:54:36 by chappers.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013:06:24:12:54:36 by chappers.
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