The End of the bees?

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Thanks for the info 1908, I know a lot of us have very fond memories of the trip to the Bees - and the very warm welcome we got from them.

It will be a great shame if we never get to hear "I'd rather be a Bee than a Wasp" sung again

It would be nice if we could send an A side over there on a Wednesday night or something for a benefit game... Probably impossible in this day and age but...

Have an image of a 'London' scratch side made up of non-starting XXIII players from the 'London' GP teams getting a decentish crowd for a London v Birmingham game.

The RFU need to start listening and working with these second tier clubs rather than pompously sending down LAST MINUTE
directives from on high (The Championship format and relegation of 5 clubs from Nat Div 1 came late in '08. Clubs shld have been given at least 12 mths planning time)
Coventry & London Welsh have been on the brink of collapse in the last 12 mths. Now Bees have gone ?!How many more signs do the RFU need before they replace autocracy with a hint of democracy and at least a modicum of management skills

Well done to the pirates supporters though. A nice gesture of solidarity.

It would be a real shame to see the Bees fold. Presumably they would revert to amateur status.

I don't see how the RFU can help very much. The Premiership on average, just about breaks even. There is not enough money in the game to support 2 divisions of professional players, and the RFU can't provide enough money to bail 12 ND1 teams out. Some people say it's unfair that the Prem teams get support, but remember that is 'payment' for players.

Clubs need and must budget within their means, and if they can't afford to go to the next level then tough. I have no sympathy for clubs like this, as I have no sympathy for people who lie on a mortgage application, to get a bigger loan than they can afford.

Nice HSBC. Very nice...

It seems that the problems may have been caused by their backers not by the players and staff of the club itself

[www.rugbynetwork.net]

There is a thread entitled 'Memories' on their Sportnetwork site, should you wish to post anything there.

HSBC,
With all due respect I suspect you may not be closely acquainted with the process of converting the Nat Div 1 into
the Championship, and the RFU's role in it over the past 18 mths. I have links with Esher,L Welsh & Birm & Sol (Bees).
IMO it is the speed with which the Nat Div 1 clubs were
coerced by the rfu into turning professional or dropping down a tier that has caused problems. To blame it purely on mismanagement at club level is IMO an over simplification and not correct. Some have been over bullish but if Nat Div 1 had been left alone by the RFU, I suspect Bees would still be in business

But if you can't afford it you should have it, why did they not insist on business plans and then ensuring the clubs could afford the new status.

Exactly right. Good question. Another one is why were the RFU
in such a rush to launch the Championship in Sept '09. When the plans were announced piecemeal in Oct / Nov '08. Chairmen of the Nat Div 1 clubs all said great concept but lets launch
Sept '10, all of which is well documented. That way proper business plans and reliable revenue streams can be put in place. The clubs were not listened to and now we have the fall out. Esher were "lucky" in that as Nat Div 1 was culled from
16 clubs to create the Championship with 12 clubs they were relegated down to the new Nat Div 1. Bees passed them on the way up and now are history. In the long term this will hopefully be to Eshers advantage when they do join the Champ. 2 sides to every story but certainly more to this one than just blaming clubs.

Some very good points Tarquin4. Interesting that you mention Coventry and London Welsh's well documented financial struggles and it should be noted that they along with another cash-strapped club, Nottingham, were the main clubs championing the Championship so as to speak.

Clearly they saw the Championship as the answer to their money problems and time will tell if believing the RFU's promises on additional income (anyone seen the supposed SKY contract yet?) will prove to be their downfall.

However acting as Tony Blair to the RFU's George Bush certainly ensured there was no way London Welsh were going to be excluded from the new division when they went into administration in the summer and it also ensured their punishment (a deduction of five points) was minimal.

I know Esher's view when the RFU asked them if they would be prepared to take London Welsh's place should they not be in a financial position to start was that they would almost certainly be better off being outside the Championship for the time being.

Not that this was ever going to happen as was proved when the RFU disgracefully accused Esher of underhand behaviour in suggesting the RFU had contacted them only for them to retreat from this position with their tail between their legs when Esher pointed out the RFU representative had actually confirmed the contact by email!

The RFU is a "QUANGO" made up of people with lots of "EGO" with idea how to manage the game.The CHAMPIONSHIP was not thought thru and should have not been implimented without a sponsor and with eleven teams left the loss of play offs and fixtures will bankrupt other clubs.When are the English Clubs going to have the balls to get rid of these people who are destroying the game.Building £500,000 statues at Twickenham is not RUGBY.

Quote:

When are the English Clubs going to have the balls to get rid of these people who are destroying the game.

When they can afford to?

BB

My club, Otley, are in a similar position, and to that end have perhaps benefited after the cull. Realistically they will never be a Championship club due to funding issues. On the field they are using academy lads from Leeds, a bit short term!!!

The big issue was the speed and bully boy tactics the RFU employed to get the Championship live. Yes rugby clubs are businesses, but clubs like Esher, Bees, Otley etc are at the heart of their communities, and perhaps it is a message to all of us the commercial rugby is only sustainable for a few...I reckon about 16 clubs...

I wish all at Bees well...

Very good points raised by the last 4 contributors. Good to see the real facts of the situation put forward rather than some of the uninformed ivory tower views higher up the thread (with all due respect). This is not little club mismanagement as the RFU wld love to have the public believe. It is chronic incompetence and staggering arrogance by a small number at HQ. I hope the Bees will be the last casualty - but I fear not.

Does anyone know if they'll revert to being an amateur club or if they will fold completely?

Also if they cannot play the rest of their games what will happen with the points awarded for missed games?

The quote from The Rugby Paper (25 October 2009, page 2) is that 'The Bees thriving junior and minis sections are under severe threat with the 35-acre Portway playing fields certain to be sold off to pay creditors'.

It rather looks as if the viable amateur sections are having everything stripped away from them. will there be people with the heart to keep an amateur side going after all this? I really do hope so.

So do I

Only just back from holidays, very, very sad to see this, I have fantastic memories up at Bee's, I wish them well and really hope they can come through this.

latest from teletext:

"The Championship club have been docked 15 points for going into voluntary liquidation, but will play on until the end of November."

a terrible shame - our first game in ND1 IIRC?

Latest from Beeb:-

Cash-strapped Birmingham & Solihull have been handed a lifeline by the Rugby Football Union despite putting themselves into liquidation on Tuesday.

The Bees have put plans in place for new investors to take on the club's financial responsibilities.

The club now have until 23 November to present evidence to the RFU that the plans are viable.

The RFU have allowed the Bees to compete in the Championship until the next month but docked them 15 points.

The club, who were promoted to the newly-formed Championship in May, have been struggling with financial problems for several years, and have been unable to pay player wages over the past two months.

The side now hope that the liquidation of the club will free up assets to ensure the team's survival.



A Quin is for life, not just for pleasure.....

London Welsh only docked 5 points

Bees penalised with 15.

Typical.It's always the ethnic minorities that get picked on.

Quote:

1908
London Welsh only docked 5 points
Bees penalised with 15.

Typical.It's always the ethnic minorities that get picked on.

Dont say that, GlynQuin might be listening.......

The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George

Err...actually I was meaning the Bees...

Quote:

1908
Err...actually I was meaning the Bees...

Err sorry! Not sure if GQ can see from behind his sofa....

The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George

Slightly ironic on a day that the rfu announce record profits for the autumn internationals. Perhaps of patting themselves on the back they should at least be pumping some cash into saving the amatuer set up and more importantly the playing fields for our future players

You make a valid point bish, but I think Birmingham & Solihull have been in trouble for some time and I think the RFU have extended their deadline on more than one occasion too. I really dont know the detail but I cant imagine for one moment the RFU would be sitting on their hands over this one...surely..?

The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George

i was more concerned for the amatuer and minis set up ..If grown up adults can't look after the cash why should the youngsters suffer..Shame all round

I agree of course and its the development aspect that makes me hope and presume that the Bees are being afforded every possible assistance. Would like to know how their affairs have come to be in such a parlous state though?

The game's afoot;
Follow your spirit: and upon this charge,
Cry — God for Harry! England and Saint George

As Bish says I really hope they can keep the ground for rugby rather than it being sold off for development

There affairs are in such a parlous state as they have an average gate of about 400.

You cannot run a Championship team on that sort of support without someone pumping an awful lot of money in.

Quote:

GrahamJ
There affairs are in such a parlous state as they have an average gate of about 400.
You cannot run a Championship team on that sort of support without someone pumping an awful lot of money in.

You mean like the RFU promised them SKY would?