Saints v Falcons - 29th October 2023 - Teams Up

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:11:03:08:38:15 by Saint Ted.

Even ignoring the extensive injury list, this side doesn't fill me with confidence. I thought we saw against Bath that you cannot play Coles and Munga together - it's just too lightweight and we got pummelled in the tight. Moon is debatably our best carrier in the tight, and I haven't seen Coles or Munga replicate that in their minutes this season. However, with a plastic pitch we will be looking to play a fast game, so perhaps we need the extra legs.

I would also prefer to see McParland starting, I think James has had a very poor start to the season and I'd be giving McParland these minutes, because as soon as Mitchell is back he won't get a look-in.

Paul Hill has also completely disappeared off the radar. From our guaranteed starting tighthead every week to disappearing completely is very strange. I know our scrummaging has always been criticised during his tenure in the 3 shirt, but to completely evaporate from the 23 is scathing.

I'm surprised Dow's didn't go with the front 3 that finished and that shored up the scrum, bring on more mobile players when the opposition are blowing?
Defensively we look friendly, hopefully we'll score 50+ and keep them to 49!!!

If I was a Falcons fan, I would not be too frightened of that Saints line up which looks ready to be bullied up front. I would go for James starting at outside half but he seriously needs to up his game along with one or two others. A win would be more than useful so here’s hoping.

To a certain extent we have to trust what the coaches see not only match day but the week in training

However I would, as said above, look to start Moon with Coles moving to 6

We really could do with a win
Away from home with Falcons no doubt expecting to get their first W will not be easy

I am hopeful we can do it but only if we bring intensity for the full 80

I see we’re fighting the Falcons board for the underdog slot. Happy memories of our last trip there but very different circumstances this time out. I’m thinking we’ll get the same result but not the same score line.

Spectacularly poor game so far. Saints playing very poorly again. Unforced errors galore.

We are not playing well (and neither are Newcastle) but that maybe the weather. Defence noticeably better, I’d say.

Ref clearly not liking Ethan at scrum time!

Only listening rather than watching but it sounds if the penalty count is mounting again……..

He's not liking anything we do

Quote:

ramseysaint
He's not liking anything we do

True!

Two pretty poor sides battling it out in poor conditions.

Glad I'm on the sofa and not at the match

You know, this feels like one of those old games played out in the mud that ends up a boring draw! Ironic given it’s a plastic pitch that was supposed to stop that!

Like I said, our defence definitely looking better. No teeth in attack at the moment and being a penalty machine.

We finally had some good phase play. Making yards every carry and then we just kick away (badly) then conded a knock on.

I know the weather is bad but I can't see game plan or any skills at all. Kicking has been really poor.

Not a rip-roaring thriller, is it?

A pretty awful game between two very out of sorts sides but our first win of the season. At least we are not the team having lost all three matches.

I fear last season we would have conceded 2 tries when Falcons where knocking on our door at the 5m line

Not so this year
Back row really got stuck in

Defensive line held a lot firmer
Could be quicker going forward
But when defending players back in position quicker

So some moves forward

Just need some structure
And intelligence

But on the whole a win Iin the north east in a downpour

Let’s just take the points

Well, not quite what I predicted, 4 points instead of 5. Clearly the weather was a factor, but same for both sides.

Defence better when needed. Excited to see what Hendys ceiling is. Pearson is top tier. Was told a very long time ago Ethan would be the better brother, today Alex argued the opposite.

Pleased to get the win. Side eyes at certain critics/doubters.

Quietly Sam Graham was excellent today. Made his tackles, made ground in contact. Right decisions. Think we have a great back up to Trokke now. Our back row all over looks quality.

I thought Ethan was unlucky. It was one of those days. Right decision to pull him. He's played well this season so far.

Back from the game. Not sure if the cameras could pick up quite how hard it rain. Was a scrappy game but our defence was better (although against a poorer side. Didn’t look as if we had much clue in attack apart from our try. Line out went a stray when we swapped hookers. Scrum improved when Alex swapped with his brother.

how many of you would want to play in those conditions on that surface. I think I would prefer to play at the Rec

4 points at a wet Newcastle. I’ll take that.

Quote:

Chris Hoddle
Back from the game. Not sure if the cameras could pick up quite how hard it rain. Was a scrappy game but our defence was better (although against a poorer side. Didn’t look as if we had much clue in attack apart from our try. Line out went a stray when we swapped hookers. Scrum improved when Alex swapped with his brother.

Yeah the cameras picked up the rain, so glad I moved south over 40 years ago.

I think Sam graham is slowly turning into the reincarnation of a certain other Sam signed from the championship.

I was at the game today, and agree with several of the comments above. Conditions not suited to attractive rugby (rain, cold, plastic pitch) but much improved defence and defensive patterns are definitely a major improvement.

I'll take the win, probably would have coughed that game a year ago so kudos there. Was not pretty to watch but our defence seemed to be up a notice, also our penalty count. Not sure what else to take from a game dictated by poor conditions

Plastic pitches are proving to be a problem for rugby rather than a positive to good rugby and I believe those operating with them should consider removing them and reverting to grass and proper drainage to combat the ruination of our game

+1

Quote:

sternie
Plastic pitches are proving to be a problem for rugby rather than a positive to good rugby and I believe those operating with them should consider removing them and reverting to grass and proper drainage to combat the ruination of our game

A game, even on our hallowed turf would have been a sloppy affair in those conditions. Not sure I agree with you there.

Look at the RWC semi and final, wet encounters on a pristine surface

Plastic pitch, long trip, awful conditions………take the win and get back on the coach asap.

Well done lads.

Totally agree with commehts about Sam and thought Dingers and Tom James had good games

I would definitely add Furbank to that list, he was rock solid all game and captained pretty well too.

Quote:

Push Over
Plastic pitch, long trip, awful conditions………take the win and get back on the coach asap.
Well done lads.

Totally agree with commehts about Sam and thought Dingers and Tom James had good games

I thought TJ was far too slow today.

Quote:

Tarnelo
I would definitely add Furbank to that list, he was rock solid all game and captained pretty well too.

Agreed. There were some nasty high balls to deal with but Furbs coped with them admirably. Sharp in attack too.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:10:30:07:53:58 by white lion.

Yes , Furbs was impressive. Cool, calm, collected, utterly in control and must have infused confidence throughout the team (unlike his opposite number).

I though Ref had made up his mind from kick off. We weren't going to get the rub on any 50:50 decision.

It wasn't the conditions for free flowing rugby so I was pleased so see us adapt to them.

Sam Graham is having a great start to the season. He's going to be difficult to drop when others return, similarly Pearson. Where exactly do we fit in Lewis, Courtney and Trokkie?
Langdon is also proving a cracking signing, Matavesi is going to have a job on his hands.

I cannot wait for those returning from international duty and injury. Its telling that we had to field Hendy out of position, Lockett, McParland and Litchfield, all remained on the bench; perhaps not the game for such young players. Also, Grayson again being on the bench... I don't think you'd see that if we had the likes of Odendaal, Freeman, Ramm or Sleightholme available.

Similarly, I think Moon was being given a bit of a rest rather than Munga and Coles being the first choice pairing. With Mayanavanua out, we only have 3 first team locks, then Lockett and Atauanya.

We really are down to bare bones in key positions. I wonder if Medical Cover players have been looked at?

Aside from one fantastic kick in the first half and the game-winning turnover, I again thought TJ was off the pace. Box kicking was poor, often too long to compete and distribution was sub-par, with one pass going directly forward from a set piece. That being said, his defence was stout and his back-field covering was good. Would still have preferred to give Archie a crack, although I understand the hesitance in the conditions, but he's got to learn to master them at some point!

Sam Graham was excellent going forward and Dingwall was outstanding in defence. Thought Fin Smith had a quiet game at 10, albeit he didn't get much ball to do much with. Ultimately I think we did well to come away with a win.

I won't pretend to know what was going on with Ethan Waller at scrum time, but the decision to hook him was warranted - not his day.

However, when was the last time one of our props had "their day" and looked anything above acceptable at Premiership level? I can live with props just about cutting the mustard at the set piece as long as they are excellent contributors elsewhere. Sadly, there isn't a single one of our props that is top class at anything. None of them are aggressive, dominant scrummagers and none of them are brilliant ball-carriers or skillful ball handlers. There isn't a position in our squad that is as bang average as our props. Remember when Boydy came in and said we had too many B and C players and not enough A players? We haven't had an A prop since Alex Corbisiero and we're coming up on a decade of him being at the club. I think this is a wider issue across the league, especially with English props, which means our mantra of "young, English, high potential" needs a re-think.

Having premium props is always going to problem. You have to have 4 props every weekend, which means that you have to have a stable of at least 6 plus 2 Academy.

I guess the choices are blow your Front Row budget on 2 top level starting props then make do with what you have left to spend. Or, do you go down the Saints apparent route and have a stable of average props where similar levels of performance can be expected regardless of who we select.

I wonder how 'average' our props really are though. Is it that they're that bad or are we suffering from the historical view point of the referees? Do the last few years of weak scrums stick in the mind of Refs and their viewpoint is unintentionally skewed before we even kick off?

Would our props concede more or less if they were playing for different teams? It would be interesting to see the number of penalties that Davison is giving away compared to his time at Newcastle.

We commented (watching from the relative warmth of Abu Dhabi) that the scrummaging "improved" as soon as AW came on - not because he was a better scrummager but because before the first scrum he packed down in, he pointed out to the ref that they weren't lined up straight - and for the first time in the game Falcons were made to line up across the pitch at 90deg instead of however they felt like, and low and behold all the shenanigans immediately stopped.

It just took some experience to point it out

Take Marler and Cole out of the England equation (please) whilst accepting the fact that Genge and Sinkler will be first choice from now on, it is difficult to see just where the next generation of Props is coming from……certainly not from Franklins Gardens I’m afraid.

Quote:

Stillgrinning
We commented (watching from the relative warmth of Abu Dhabi) that the scrummaging "improved" as soon as AW came on - not because he was a better scrummager but because before the first scrum he packed down in, he pointed out to the ref that they weren't lined up straight - and for the first time in the game Falcons were made to line up across the pitch at 90deg instead of however they felt like, and low and behold all the shenanigans immediately stopped.
It just took some experience to point it out

It shouldn't have needed AW to point this out. I am reluctant to criticise referees as modern rugby must be a nightmare for refs compared with pre-professional days but let's just say that Mr Smales had an indifferent game.

Quote:

white lion

Quote:

Stillgrinning
We commented (watching from the relative warmth of Abu Dhabi) that the scrummaging "improved" as soon as AW came on - not because he was a better scrummager but because before the first scrum he packed down in, he pointed out to the ref that they weren't lined up straight - and for the first time in the game Falcons were made to line up across the pitch at 90deg instead of however they felt like, and low and behold all the shenanigans immediately stopped.
It just took some experience to point it out

It shouldn't have needed AW to point this out. I am reluctant to criticise referees as modern rugby must be a nightmare for refs compared with pre-professional days but let's just say that Mr Smales had an indifferent game.

This is an area we have failed to deal with since Dylan retired. Watch Jamie George wittering on to the ref every scrum. He's not captain, he doesn't wait for his captain to have the conversation - something we still need to address. Ellis Genge does quite frequently too.

Ref's are no different to anyone else. They require gentle prodding. The Waller method has proven to not work over several years. Perhaps Alex has finally woken up and seen the issue from a distance and decided to change his approach?

16 penalties against the Saints , 7 for.
I saw the ARs at a Service Station on their way home.
Suffice to say, Hamish Smales had a rather shorter journey.

Our scrum is actually much improved. If you look at the stats last season its better than many fans remember, but it's a fair point on the ref. If we fans still think we have a bad scrum then refs will think the same.

There were times last season we actually dominated at scrum time.

Its not a weapon of course, i am not blind but its vastly better than when Boyd was here. Furgusson has done a great job with the resources. Langdon and Davison are very good additions too.

Quote:

Duckonstilts
Our scrum is actually much improved. If you look at the stats last season its better than many fans remember, but it's a fair point on the ref. If we fans still think we have a bad scrum then refs will think the same.
There were times last season we actually dominated at scrum time.

Its not a weapon of course, i am not blind but its vastly better than when Boyd was here. Furgusson has done a great job with the resources. Langdon and Davison are very good additions too.

Very true.

Has anyone considered that we won BECAUSE we gave away some penalties at critical moments ?

If we had both given away 7 penalties would we have wone by more or would Falcons have scored more tries instead of kicked a couple of extra goals ?