Initials

 

I have just been listening to the webcast. Sounds like Saints had all the chances to win but just didn't take the points. A much better performance than last week but too many mistakes, eh? Slim Jimmie

 

Sounded like they'd lost their self belief SJ. Rich St. Joe & Niamh’s dad

 

C'mon wayne it wsn't even that good      here you are with a summary:
INEPT, UNFOCUSSED, CLUMSY, 1ST DIVISION STUFF, SORRY NOT THAT GOOD. IN SHORT s***E Saintsby

 

Bob - stay focussed - don't let it get to you. They are Saints - WE are Saints. They need us now more than ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Sharky showed what it means. WMS

 

Depressed

 

have to say this pleaase belive me when I say I am, will allways be a Saint but realistically where have we come since our great (Geeche inspired) HC win in 2000. Yes that's nearly 4 years past! we have one of the best Stadia in the UK for Rugby combined with greta facilities. So why don't the players turn up, sorry but I have been to the last 2 games and it ain't working......................WHY??????????????? Saintsby

 

think that the RWC has a lot to answer.
I just look at the sides that are through to the next round and wonde if the results may have been different.
I hate to say it but T******s season is now over and we have still only in November. At least we have still the title to play for.  I think some new centres? Chris H

 

Saintsby - you need more beer!
Courtesy of Connect Travel International, we have spent a day in good company and know that things can and one day will get better. Today was dissapointing on the Rugby front - but those guys must be shattered: the wheel of squad rotation has all but stopped turning. Not long 'till competition for places perhaps puts some edge back into the team.  Binary Bob

 

Recruitment

 

know the ref can only ref what he sees, but one of the reasons for tired bodies and heads down is that our skillful players are being targetted, with no enforcer to protect them. The boys are taking a beating week in week out.  I hear that as we are over the salary cap, there is no room for a new prop! Methinks some judicious pruning is needed, a sthe pack needs bolstering quickly. St. Marlowes

 

How are we over the salary cap ???? Peillard now off the books will free up some money samwigg

 

at the start of last season, i was quite surprised at a couple of recruitment areas which went unaddressed. at the start of this season, i was hopeful that the arrival of renaud (admittedly on the wrong side of the scrum) and the real improvement in standards wayne has brought out in the squad would see us through.  since the first bath game and the LI game , i've been hoping that the players and staff would find a way around our apparent difficulty when confronted with bigger sides. even after the tigs and glaws games i felt the jury was out, as both opponents were poor imitations of last year.   i keep hearing geech's voice saying that "there were a lot of positives" in our performance etc. thank god wayne is a blunt and honest man on these topics   i look forward to the return of the troops, but to be honest, they will bring us depth , not change a lot. daws and larry will fight for their places, ben played miles better for england than us last year, and is not even playing well for england at the moment , and wally cannot work a miracle on his own- besides which, dan has been no weak link…..
…..i would stress that i was very hopeful we had it right before the season started, bbut realism tells me that the proof of the pudding being in the eating, we need some help. looking at ages , there will be a fair number of new players next year. i'd sooner see them in the heineken than the shield ; i do not fault the squad for effort or devotion to duty, but we are a wealthy club comparatively, with a small squad. time to bite the bullet, i feel. broonie

 

Broonie   we are allegedly well over the salary cap, so there will need to be some urgent pruning first! St Marlowes

 

I said at the end of last season I wanted us to have the biggest, meanest, ugliest pack in the prem this year. At least a couple of big, bruising ball-carriers to take it to the opposition.
We got some decent results when the ground was firm, but now we're heading into winter and we have a lightweight pack.  Come on Wayne, prove I know nothing.   Please.   Steve393

 

Basic Skills

 

Fair points Broonie (as ever), but we won enough ball today to win the game. We were let down by basic skill levels when it mattered. Some (most?) of the passing today would have looked poor in a junior league game. Craig in Wootton

 

Broonie it is very rare that I disagree with you because to be fair you know a hell of a lot more than most of us. However, the game I heard on the radio was of a Saints side that had many opportunities and blew them on a regular basis, failing to put pressure on Bath and heaping it upon themselves. If our lightweights were getting so badly beaten up, surely they would have played the game outside of the Bath 22 and not camped in it.
My feeling is that the Saints are mentally fragile and are going into some games without the belief they can win. They then become their own self fulfilling prophecy. That mising self belief was not their undoing at Leicester becasue the Tigers seem to have the same problem. Against Gloucester they got their mental preparation spot on and then were galvanised by events on the field…… So lets not be so pessimistic. Win at home against Leeds next satdee and Saints are second in the league at the end of the world cup. That's more than good enough. Rich St. Joe & Niamh’s dad

 

I'm with Craig. We had plenty of ball and tried to play the rugby but the quality of passing was woeful. Shine seemed to get no ball that he could use and so gave even worse ammunition to JL and poor Bruise had nothing. Barf simply soaked us up, waited for mistakes and punished us superbly. They are not a great 'rugby' side but play the percentages - scoring at every opportunity. We wasted so much...........Having said that - As I said to Marky H - we could lose the next twenty and I'd still be at the twenty first.    WMS

 

I was there - and I was there at quins and I dont think we should disagree with Broonie's analyisis of our woes or to a degree Richs points about missed opportunities.
I have thought for some time that the squad is unbalanced - particularly in terms of age and experience. We have senior players - with respect some so senior that their contribution can be measured in months rather than years to come - we have youngsters ( some in key positions ) and we are short in my view in the middle range. The succession planning as it were is a bit skewed. I'd swear I saw us pass the ball in a circle at one time - a small circle but
definitely a circular progression….. - No yesterday wasnt so much a case of missed opportunities it was an overcomplicated shambles.
Barf play straightforward basic rugby - they have got the basics right - we seem to confuse ourselves in an effort to play a clever game that some players are just not able to get their heads round  Good points - we looked Ok for the first wo mins or half hour then there was the try scoring interception of the first of many wild floated passes that were to mar the day
Two players stood out again for effort and sticking to thier task again - AB and Bruce
Finally - a blessing in disguise - free weekends - time for rest , recovery time and some serious thinking Old Pete

 

I'd be interested to the stats on possession and yardage, we would probably edge both but pressure doesn't win you games, converting it into points does, thats whats a concern. Seems we can hold defences at bay but we can't unlock them then to add insult to injury we gift tries from brakaways after we overcook things.   Chris the Saint

 

Ithink Smudger must be pulling his hair out. He has obviously gone for a smaller lightweight pack with higher ball handling skills and people who can play multi positions to have a small but quality squad. This in itself is not a bad thing if you can pull it off.
Yesterday our handling was truly awful, I cannot remember two good passes being strung together, everything was high, low, or made the player check and hence we made little impact, although we did win a lot of ball. As for our defence, where has it gone?
We really do seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place. We do not have the power to bully people up front nor sadly do we seem to have the skill to play an open expansive game and move the other team around. We really do not seem to have many options open to us and we still have the heavy pitches to look forward to. Ajack

 

Defence

 

as for our defence, it doesn't half help if you are hitting people back in the tackle, as it completely disrupts the attacking side's timing when the support overruns the ball. generally, the bigger hitting sides with the big packs seem to be setting the best defensive stats.
as our rwc players are not on the payroll at present, it would seem that if we are well over the cap at the moment then we'll be in major trouble with the authorities when 4 current england internationals arrive home. as we have a squad who are short on numbers and with a lot of youth together with some who are in their declining rugby years, i find it difficult to see how we can be pushing the cap to its limits .  broonie

 

Gamemanship

 

Fair play - Barf schtooped us and Mr Rowden had a fair game - missing some but calling most - but sitting at the front of the Vestal Twitchers Stand there was one thing that drove me insane........
Has any team ever talked as much as Barf?
The gamesmanship was incredible reaching a peak when a loud Welsh voice gave us a commentary as Shine lined up a kick. Danny must have felt like a complaints hot line after Christmas such was the barrage he was receiving at every lineout and the TJ was getting an incessant tirade from the whole 15.  Mr Rowden - please tell them to shut up. WMS

 

We lost cos the other side talked too much. That's a new one one for the loosers book of excuses. BB and W

 

No BBandW. I was very impressed with the pressure Barf were able to put on the younger players - it just seems to me to be a further erosion of the values of the game. We try to teach our youngsters to respect the opposition by keeping quiet while they take a kick. Judging by some of your players behaviour and from your reaction it seems that there are other clubs that no longer hold with that courtesy.  Fair enough - if that's the way you and the majority want the game to go - I just find it sad. BTW - the word's 'losers' - I felt I should correct you as my grammar has been questioned before on your site.  See you at the Gardens, where I assure you - your players will be respected. WMS

 

I don't think he said that, did he?
Talking of the ref.....how many times did our throw get messed up when Bath closed the gaps?This is what sides do to us. Refs seldom blow it. Borthwick was able to have things all his own way.   Bell was constantly pulling Morris down in the scrums...his elbow position said it all. Rowden was invariably on the other side-the TJs did nothing. Weak in the extreme.
All that said, our passing and decision-making were woeful. Why did we go for the corner rather than goal when 10 points down and 25 mins to go? We didn't manage a catch and drive all afternoon. Then same again with the next penalty!
Howard's distribution was a nightmare. We really missed Sharkey. Ben Jones is no mug.
BUT LETS GET BEHIND OUR BOYS AT FG NEXT WEEK. IT'S ALL UP FROM HERE. Cheesey

 

Ummm I think he actually said fair play you lot deserved the win.  But personally I can see how Lipman got his name. Chris the Saint

 

Like the pedant's suggestion re the dog whistle:
"At least then the players would be allowed to carry on, and the referee would have satisfied himself by sounding off, soundlessly."
I'm sure we can think of several officials who need that type of whistle!   Bartonsaint

 

Game

 

Yesterday after the first 20/ 30 mins we got worse and worse and worse.
After the Quins game I thought to myself - well that nadir of the season it can only get better - I was wrong
By only consolation is that we have more time to now to put things right without the pressure of extra games. Old Pete

 

lastly i am sad to announce that i never thought i would do this but i actually got up and left before the final whistle mind you it was 41 mins and probably blew up as i left but still i felt bad doing so but also felt like i was living the match i watched earlier in the day with Aus v NZ.  saints players were not fronting up and several times looked clueless to where the put the ball, drahm's form has completely gone since hazell's challenge. we took quick taps that ended in stationary momentum and not knowing what to do with the ball. we got outscored in every department including yellow cards!!!! which should have been more with perry cynically holding onto the ball with no bath man in sight, result of that should have also been a penalty try. David Tavener

 

And finally…. kind words and expert analysis from Dorset Boy.  How does he do it?

 

Whoever was your skipper today should be hung drawn and quartered - his decision making was awful. We'd conceded one try at the Rec this season before today, so you lot turned down at least 3 easy kicks at goal to kick for the corners, and got zero in return. Those extra 9 points would have made a big difference.
Your forwards were poor, lineout often a shambles. and the backs, bar Beale were useless. Classic was blowing a 5 on 2 overlap!
I suspect the prblem is having too many choking Kiwis in your squad!
Still it can only get better for you!!!!!!!! Dorset Boy