Warriors boost Cov squad
By John Wilkinson, Coventry
November 24 2009
COVENTRY will be able to call on England and Worcester Academy trio Jake Abbott, David Askew and Ollie Grove for the rest of the season on a dual registration deal. Leamington-born flanker Askew, 19 and a member of Warwick School’s Daily Mail Schools Cup winning team in 2007, came on in the second half of Friday’s 20-13 defeat by Munster and – with Ben Pons facing possible surgery
on a shoulder injury – will provide vital back row cover for Cov along with 21-year-old open side Abbott, who has made four first-team appearances for Worcester Warriors this season.
Grove, 19 and the younger brother of Scotland centre Alex who played one game on loan for Cov last season, is in Scotland’s under-20 squad and covers all the back positions.
With a number of players currently carrying injuries, the three will give Cov’s squad a welcome boost for the second half of the Championship campaign along with 21-year-old fly-half James Thomas, who also made his debut against Munster as a replacement.
A former member of the Cardiff Blues Academy and a Wales Under-18 cap, Thomas caught the eye after coming on for the final quarter and could start Cov’s second Pool B game in the British & Irish Cup at home to Heriot’s on Friday night.
“I thought James looked very good,” said rugby director Phil Maynard. “He has been playing in Australia and sent his CV to Mike Ruddock at Worcester who passed it on to me. I contacted him, and he’s backed himself to earn a place in our squad.”
Maynard was pleased by the way his side responded to conceding two early tries to Munster and then going 20-3 down two minutes after the break.
“We paid them far too much respect early on and it cost us,” said Maynard. “We’re a young squad and that’s what happens, but it’s something we need to stop.
“We put in a really good second-half performance and if we’d started the game like that I’m sure we would have won it.
“We only managed to kick one of our attempts at goal and if we’d just been more accurate with the boot we would have been in greater contention, and we weren’t as strong defensively in the backs as we needed to be. But we were stronger in the forwards and overall it was encouraging.”
Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Unofficial Coventry Rugby (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 07:57
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Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: bathrugbymike (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 10:51
We should be very thankful to Mike at Worcester Warriors and this arrangement shows how well premiership/championship clubs can work together for the good of both teams
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: tom snr (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 15:54
there was praise for Worcester during the Sky commentary the other day on the way they gave the youngsters a chance eleswhere-in this case Cov.
Dont forget we also helped Worcester out pre-season with Kevin davis.
Dont forget we also helped Worcester out pre-season with Kevin davis.
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Sweetie (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 16:03
This is great. Worcester also have Earl Collins, who went to Coundon Court, a promising young winger. It would be great to see more local lads playing.
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: tom snr (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 16:09
i remember how well Earl played for OCcolts last season.
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: covmick1/Michael Carter (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 16:43
Louis McGowan, Rob Dugard have also played for Worcester A this season. Drew Locke, Simon Frewin and Kurt Johnson have also played for Stourbridge. James Lewis has guested for Ebbw Vale. The player movement has gone on at many clubs.
covmick/Michael Carter
covmick/Michael Carter
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: covkid53 (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 17:17
More talented youngsters getting experience at our expense, if we had a decent sized squad a la London Welsh, we wouldn't need so many inexperienced loan players.
No-matter how good they may become or how much potential they have now, I re-iterate that these players will not win us matches against the top teams in our new competition.
AG is doing things on the cheap, we will be lucky if we finish out of the bottom 4.
Nevertheless, I'll be there....C'mon COV !!!
No-matter how good they may become or how much potential they have now, I re-iterate that these players will not win us matches against the top teams in our new competition.
AG is doing things on the cheap, we will be lucky if we finish out of the bottom 4.
Nevertheless, I'll be there....C'mon COV !!!
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Coventry Steve (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 17:43
Great news for the club and fans, its great to see new talent coming to help the others along.
A good result for all at the club, fans and players.
COME ON COV - and i am still predicting a win for cov this Friday night !!- COME ON COV
A good result for all at the club, fans and players.
COME ON COV - and i am still predicting a win for cov this Friday night !!- COME ON COV
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: mobydick (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 18:06
Then again if we had a decent sized squad a la London Welsh we would go bust.
Moseley owes it's league position to these inexperianced youngsters who by the way are being brought in to provide cover for injured players. Again look at Moseley and without these inexperianced youngsters they would not have won the EDF Trophy beating Leeds so to say that you can not win with youngsters on borad is nonsence - what is important is that the Club retain a balance of experiance and inexperiance on the field. If they get their chance they will gain some experiance, why would be begrudge them that, we should be grateful that they are willing to put their bodies and reputations on the line to help Cov through a difficult injury period. If they get their chance and blow it they most likely will not get many more so pressure is on them to perform. I don't here many people bemoaning the contribution of Will Hurrell do you?
AG is either doing things on the cheap or living within a tight budget during difficult economic conditions. Sounds to me like he is living in the real world !!
Moseley owes it's league position to these inexperianced youngsters who by the way are being brought in to provide cover for injured players. Again look at Moseley and without these inexperianced youngsters they would not have won the EDF Trophy beating Leeds so to say that you can not win with youngsters on borad is nonsence - what is important is that the Club retain a balance of experiance and inexperiance on the field. If they get their chance they will gain some experiance, why would be begrudge them that, we should be grateful that they are willing to put their bodies and reputations on the line to help Cov through a difficult injury period. If they get their chance and blow it they most likely will not get many more so pressure is on them to perform. I don't here many people bemoaning the contribution of Will Hurrell do you?
AG is either doing things on the cheap or living within a tight budget during difficult economic conditions. Sounds to me like he is living in the real world !!
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: covkid53 (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 18:34
Mobydick, you are entitled to your opinion, I in no way critized these young players commitment, only their inability to compete with seasoned professionals.
As for Moseley, "get real" their squad had very few young loanies, they had experience where it mattered and Leeds were absolutely shocking on the day, read the reports.
Wearing rose tinted glasses will not improve things, as for living in the real world, why does'nt AG sell up and shove off from whence he came. Starving this club of funds will lead us back to where we dont want to be, down and out.
As for Moseley, "get real" their squad had very few young loanies, they had experience where it mattered and Leeds were absolutely shocking on the day, read the reports.
Wearing rose tinted glasses will not improve things, as for living in the real world, why does'nt AG sell up and shove off from whence he came. Starving this club of funds will lead us back to where we dont want to be, down and out.
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: mobydick (IP Logged)
Date: 24/11/2009 23:50
It's nice to know I'm allowed an opinion:
There were 7 youngsters in Mosely's match day squad - that is a third - I don't call that a very few. As for Leeds being absolutely shocking, I suppose Exeter and London Welsh were absolutely shocking as well - where have those rose tinted specticals gone?
As for AG starving this club of funds - where is the evidence of that. OK he might not be the sugar daddy with deep pockets we would all like - who wouldn't. I see a man willing to take on a club out of administration in difficult times with limited resourses. We could all do better, players, coaches, managers, owners and supporters - as a team we will pull through, as individuals we are less likely to.
There were 7 youngsters in Mosely's match day squad - that is a third - I don't call that a very few. As for Leeds being absolutely shocking, I suppose Exeter and London Welsh were absolutely shocking as well - where have those rose tinted specticals gone?
As for AG starving this club of funds - where is the evidence of that. OK he might not be the sugar daddy with deep pockets we would all like - who wouldn't. I see a man willing to take on a club out of administration in difficult times with limited resourses. We could all do better, players, coaches, managers, owners and supporters - as a team we will pull through, as individuals we are less likely to.
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: covkid53 (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 18:35
Moby, you really are looking at things in the wrong way.
7 young players in a match day SQUAD, not all on the field at the same time, and were ALL of them loanies ? I think not.
Our playing budget £600,000....London Welsh £1.7 MILLION.
That's what I mean, and they aren't even one of the top teams and they went cap in hand before the season started having almost gone bust.
Lack of funds....I think so.
7 young players in a match day SQUAD, not all on the field at the same time, and were ALL of them loanies ? I think not.
Our playing budget £600,000....London Welsh £1.7 MILLION.
That's what I mean, and they aren't even one of the top teams and they went cap in hand before the season started having almost gone bust.
Lack of funds....I think so.
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Nige H (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 18:57
Just would like to put my 2 pennys worth..
I dont think anyone would disagree with the principles of giving new and young players experience. However the difference nowadays as i see it, is ..back in the day you would see the younger players brought into the full squad from a colts /under 21 side where they would then be given a chance in the full side.. I can name several cov kids who developed over several years in this way inlucing curtis, gulliver, grewcock. Whom if memory serves me, all played for the colts and then developed, matured, and either stayed at the club where we then benefited long term from giving them the experience, or after that moved onto bigger and better things.
However the big difference is that a lot of the young players nowadays come and go, and that will certainly be the case with the loan players. So whilst the benefit of having a loan player is that you have a person to fill the position, the game time experience will be to the benefit of the individual player, not to the long term benefit of the club. So IMO i would say the long term benefits are for the player and club whom they are loaned from, and in short term cov gains a body in match day.
How many local young lads has cov seen develop and then secure a place in the first team?? I suspect not many over the last 8 or so years.
I dont think anyone would disagree with the principles of giving new and young players experience. However the difference nowadays as i see it, is ..back in the day you would see the younger players brought into the full squad from a colts /under 21 side where they would then be given a chance in the full side.. I can name several cov kids who developed over several years in this way inlucing curtis, gulliver, grewcock. Whom if memory serves me, all played for the colts and then developed, matured, and either stayed at the club where we then benefited long term from giving them the experience, or after that moved onto bigger and better things.
However the big difference is that a lot of the young players nowadays come and go, and that will certainly be the case with the loan players. So whilst the benefit of having a loan player is that you have a person to fill the position, the game time experience will be to the benefit of the individual player, not to the long term benefit of the club. So IMO i would say the long term benefits are for the player and club whom they are loaned from, and in short term cov gains a body in match day.
How many local young lads has cov seen develop and then secure a place in the first team?? I suspect not many over the last 8 or so years.
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Sweetie (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 19:02
Nige H, I may be wrong, but I beleive that clubs like Worcester "hoover up" all the young talent from the schools, warwickshire squads etc. As Cov don't have an academy, we could not do our own hoovering even if we wanted to!
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Coventry Steve (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 20:30
I think the new loan additions to the squad will help to take some of the pressure of the utility players that have been put into action to cover for first team injuries.
These utility players have done a great job covering for first team players.
They have done there best and yes there have been mistakes unfortunately but every week i see improvement in those individual players. The only thing i would fault is our tackling from regular first team and utility players. I am sure once this is resolved which i am sure the coaches are working on , then we have a great basis for a decent squad.
I think we really do have some great young players at the club. I for one think our loan player from Leicester Tigers is a great asset to our squad.
Yes these loan players come and go but the young team utility players at Coventry can only gain experience from playing alongside these players.
I welcome any addition to our squad whilst we have the injury problems we have.
So heres to a great win on Friday night for Coventry !
COME ON COV!!!!!!!!
These utility players have done a great job covering for first team players.
They have done there best and yes there have been mistakes unfortunately but every week i see improvement in those individual players. The only thing i would fault is our tackling from regular first team and utility players. I am sure once this is resolved which i am sure the coaches are working on , then we have a great basis for a decent squad.
I think we really do have some great young players at the club. I for one think our loan player from Leicester Tigers is a great asset to our squad.
Yes these loan players come and go but the young team utility players at Coventry can only gain experience from playing alongside these players.
I welcome any addition to our squad whilst we have the injury problems we have.
So heres to a great win on Friday night for Coventry !
COME ON COV!!!!!!!!
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Nige H (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 20:31
Yeh im sure your right. The post wasnt a critisism of Cov, it was more an oberservation in the way things now a days are set up, and stating that the long term beneficiary isnt the club accpeting the loan players whether it be Cov, nuneaton or whoever. Although Moseley are perhaps a good example of homebred youngsters coming good.
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Al from Cov (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 20:36
Professional rugby players shouldn't need teaching how to tackle! Thats something you learn in Mini/Junior rugby!!
Although we have seen some decent individual efforts we have not seen a good team effort on enough occasions. There have been glimpses but for some reason these boys are not clicking as a group.
I hope we can get a win on Friday to get somewhere to build momentum from. But until these players can put in an 80 minute team effort we will only ever be the nearly rans!
Although we have seen some decent individual efforts we have not seen a good team effort on enough occasions. There have been glimpses but for some reason these boys are not clicking as a group.
I hope we can get a win on Friday to get somewhere to build momentum from. But until these players can put in an 80 minute team effort we will only ever be the nearly rans!
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Coventry Steve (IP Logged)
Date: 25/11/2009 21:04
Totaly understand your view Al,
The players as a team are not clicking together yet, there are some silly dropped passes and some terrible tackling.
I know they should be able to do these effictively at this level of rugby, but i do honestly think that given a game or two more we will see a decent Coventry Squad.
I have seen an improvement with the forwards over the last few weeks. The backs will improve the same, but there is alot of changes going on in the line up due to injuries.
This means some utility players with little first team experience will be playing out of their favoured postions.
I think the forwards were great against Munster, They had no answer to some of the forward work and scrums
So come on Cov - do us proud Friday night - here's to a win for us Friday - COME ON COV!
The players as a team are not clicking together yet, there are some silly dropped passes and some terrible tackling.
I know they should be able to do these effictively at this level of rugby, but i do honestly think that given a game or two more we will see a decent Coventry Squad.
I have seen an improvement with the forwards over the last few weeks. The backs will improve the same, but there is alot of changes going on in the line up due to injuries.
This means some utility players with little first team experience will be playing out of their favoured postions.
I think the forwards were great against Munster, They had no answer to some of the forward work and scrums
So come on Cov - do us proud Friday night - here's to a win for us Friday - COME ON COV!
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
Date: 29/11/2009 22:48
I don't think you need to worry about the quality or commitment of the Warriors players that you are getting.
I know that David Askew is very highly rated at Sixways, Jake Abbott has been captaining the Academy, has not let the side down at all when he has played for the first team, and is now with England 7's. Ollie Grove is Alex Grove's younger brother, Alex having played all 3 games for Scotland this autumn, and looks every bit as good as his brother at that age.
All 3 will be giving it their all, as they have seen what playing well on loan has done for George Crook (who is now crooked, unfortunately!).
I understand your concerns about whether they will fit in with the rest of your team and "click", but I think that they are all good enough to do that.
I also understand your concerns about them being called back off loan (like George Crook was) but dual registration is really the only way forward for many of the clubs in the Championship.
Whatever you do, do it safely!
I know that David Askew is very highly rated at Sixways, Jake Abbott has been captaining the Academy, has not let the side down at all when he has played for the first team, and is now with England 7's. Ollie Grove is Alex Grove's younger brother, Alex having played all 3 games for Scotland this autumn, and looks every bit as good as his brother at that age.
All 3 will be giving it their all, as they have seen what playing well on loan has done for George Crook (who is now crooked, unfortunately!).
I understand your concerns about whether they will fit in with the rest of your team and "click", but I think that they are all good enough to do that.
I also understand your concerns about them being called back off loan (like George Crook was) but dual registration is really the only way forward for many of the clubs in the Championship.
Whatever you do, do it safely!
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: covkid53 (IP Logged)
Date: 30/11/2009 20:14
Don't like loan players, never have, unless you have taken them with a view to signing them on, we used to call them trialists. I still think loanies just plug gaps and serves to give the incoming player valuable playing time, win or lose at our expense.
Sometimes it may work, but isn't it a bit dishonest to beat teams with players from other clubs ? Maybe there should be a cap on loan players to prevent teams becoming a second string for the likes of Leicester, Worcester or Northampton.
As a one time coach, I know the value of continuity both of playing staff and passages of play, we would do well to remember that, the one thing goes hand in hand with the other.
I too believe our best local players are being snapped up by our midlands big boys, and that is why we need a worthwhile youth policy feeding good local lads through to the 1st team. The OC-Coventry set up one good example of how to do these things at junior level, but at the moment the best young players wont end up wearing the blue and while hoops because we don't have an academy system.
Sometimes it may work, but isn't it a bit dishonest to beat teams with players from other clubs ? Maybe there should be a cap on loan players to prevent teams becoming a second string for the likes of Leicester, Worcester or Northampton.
As a one time coach, I know the value of continuity both of playing staff and passages of play, we would do well to remember that, the one thing goes hand in hand with the other.
I too believe our best local players are being snapped up by our midlands big boys, and that is why we need a worthwhile youth policy feeding good local lads through to the 1st team. The OC-Coventry set up one good example of how to do these things at junior level, but at the moment the best young players wont end up wearing the blue and while hoops because we don't have an academy system.
Re: Warriors boost Cov squad
Posted by: Brummagem Bertie (IP Logged)
Date: 30/11/2009 21:37
I can understand your dislike of loan players and desire for home grown talent, but with us, Tiggers, and Saints, any young player with any talent is going to be in one of those academies.
Setting up an academy is no easy task, and not cheap, and I understand that finance is still an issue, as it is with a lot of Championship sides.
Given some of the money floating around the Championship I fear that it is a choice for clubs like Cov of accepting loan players in order to stay competitive and in the Division, or using home grown talent, such as is available, and playing in ND1.
Not easy either way.
Whatever you do, do it safely!
Setting up an academy is no easy task, and not cheap, and I understand that finance is still an issue, as it is with a lot of Championship sides.
Given some of the money floating around the Championship I fear that it is a choice for clubs like Cov of accepting loan players in order to stay competitive and in the Division, or using home grown talent, such as is available, and playing in ND1.
Not easy either way.
Whatever you do, do it safely!
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