PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER


McConnochie: return?
By P G Tips
November 12 2019

Bath will need to reprise the defiance of their win over Saints against Ulster at the Rec on Saturday. Resistance has been the defining characteristic of Ulster since 1690, epitomised by the apprentice boys watchword “No Surrender” at the siege of Derry and evident in the politics of the Province to this day. It would be fitting therefore for Bath to trump it with a performance for “Fortress Rec” to be proud of. So, in this season’s opening European tie, who will triumph?

The visitors lie second in their Pro 14 Pool, while Bath languish in the bottom third of the Premiership. Ulster made the Quarter Finals of the competition last year, narrowly losing in a tense encounter to eventual finalists and 4 times previous winners Leinster. Relative performance last season would suggest therefore that Ulster should have the edge. Of Ireland’s recent World Cup squad, unusually only 5 were from the Ravenhill outfit. Captain Rory Best now retired, was joined by fellow hooker Herring, lock Henderson, flanker Murphy and wing Stockdale. Their squad has other internationals though including the props McGrath and Moore, lock Treadwell and Springbok loose forward Coetzee. Their firepower is not confined to the pack, as scrum half Cooney, three quarters Marshall and Gilroy and fullback Addison are all notable attackers. Finally, of interest to Bathonians is Fly Half Billy Burns, brother of Freddie and thought by their former Headmaster at Beechen Cliff to be the more talented of the brothers.

Bath’s claim to “Fortress Rec” is not quite complete this season. Of 4 home fixtures, 3 have been won and fans will hope for an improvement on 75% success by season’s end. However, in Premiership matches the home record is 100% and it is the manner of those wins that brings hope. Exeter were beaten at their own game and Northampton dispatched with a dominant forward display in the second half, despite being a man down for 30 minutes. In both matches Bath had to come from behind to win, reversing a worrying pattern of losing the tight fixtures last season.

Against Ulster’s threat, Bath will need to step up a gear. The spirit and determination of the past two home games, though admirable, may not be enough against a pack of near international quality. Much will be required of the back row, with Bayliss, Ellis and Mercer potentially battered after their heroics against Saints.  Hopefully, some reinforcement may be at hand if Francois Louw and Sam Underhill are ready to play a part.

Forward effort has indeed been sterling in the past few games, but what of the backs? Although it was the pack who sealed victory, there were promising signs in Chudley’s try and some of the patterns of running last Saturday. Resources may have to be carefully managed though, with Rokodoguni suffering an HIA and Brew facing a ban after his red card. Will Ruaridh McConnochie and Joe Cokanasiga, each only employed once in Japan, be unleashed to take the fight to the men in white?

If they are they will not be operating in a vacuum. For there to be fireworks from the outside backs the halfbacks need to make the opportunities and space. Supporters will hope for more of the zip Chudley showed in attack and a swifter decision making from both half -backs in defence.

Bath’s form has been inconsistent so far this season, in both competitions. Is it too early to hope that Saturday’s display marks a corner turned? Certainly with 6 World Cup returners, plus Faletau and Garvey due back there is room for optimism. For this Saturday a win is needed. Time to summon up the siege mentality, a spirit of “No Surrender” and produce a genuine “Fortress Rec.”

Hopefully they can release their backs to catch Ulster red handed.

 

Possible Bath Team:

Obano, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels (C), McNally, Ellis, Underhill, Mercer.

Chudley, Priestland. McConnochie., Roberts, Wright, Cokanasiga. Burns

Replacements: Boyce, Walker, Judge, Stooke, Louw. Cook, Willison, Hamer-Webb.

 

 

 

 

 

pqs: qs:
PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 11:50

What do you think? You can have your say by posting below.
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Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:20:08:32:47 by P G Tips.

Re: NO SURRENDER: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 11:59

Are Watson and Joseph definitely not in the mix? Or is that just the assumption? Can't see that JJ was over-stretched at the RWC. And while Watson certainly worked hard he hasn't played that many games this year.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 12:31

Underhill and Louw?.......my feeling is they will be rested both played in the final and Flo probably still has a hangover!

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:11:55:52 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 13:04

Agree - Underhill and Louw should get some proper rest, its not like we are desperate for back rowers at the moment.

JJ, RM and JC are all needed and didn't get much match time so if they are rested and not too jet lagged etc. I would definitely like to see them there with Levi still singing and Aled presumably banned for a bit.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:11:56:19 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 13:18

I know they will all be pretty knackered, but conversely, they should all be at an absolute peak of fitness. If we don't win this game, we can pretty much say goodbye - at the first hurdle - to Q-F qualification. I'd rather rest them against Quins.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:11:56:43 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 14:04

Quote:
BathMatt53
Agree - Underhill and Louw should get some proper rest, its not like we are desperate for back rowers at the moment.
JJ, RM and JC are all needed and didn't get much match time so if they are rested and not too jet lagged etc. I would definitely like to see them there with Levi still singing and Aled presumably banned for a bit.

Just on Aled a bit, I hope he doesn't get put off by the card, I thought it a bit harsh but understandable, he does tend to fly up but I quite like his in your face aggression, it certainly flustered their back 3.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:11:57:14 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Robbinho (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 14:08

The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:11:57:39 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 14:18

AW's in Canada, with Genge and Sinkler, according to his Instagram. So can't see him taking part!

JJ is back in the mix at Farleigh, as is RMcc. Unsure about Underhill and JCok and I'd expect Flouw not to be out of the bar yet (and fair enough!).

This weekend, I'd put JJ, Ruaridh and Joe into the XV and, given the importance of the game, Sam in too, if he's back, fit and keen. Then Sam can have the week off when Flouw has sobered up.

It's a balancing act and different clubs are handling it in different ways, with Exe chucking their players back in last weekend and others (Sale, I see) giving them a few weeks off. Given it's at home, winnable and a very important European match, I'd like to see those present and fit picked.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:11:58:02 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 14:24

Bookies struggling to split the sides for this match, Bath 10/11, Ulster even money. I think we will win. I sense a fortress Rec mentality emerging and would expect to see our underused RWC backs in the 23 for Saturday. The game is being shown live on C4...

Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:11:58:30 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: bardofavon (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 14:29

surprosed to hear genge is still swanning around post rwc. he hardly played in japan plus it looks like tigers could do with his help.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:11:58:52 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 14:30

Quote:
Clarkey3k
Bookies struggling to split the sides for this match, Bath 10/11, Ulster even money. I think we will win. I sense a fortress Rec mentality emerging and would expect to see our underused RWC backs in the 23 for Saturday. The game is being shown live on C4...


Ö followed by Barbarians v Fiji on BBC1 !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:00:04 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 15:11

Quote:
Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.

Agree with that. A lot of pain has been associated with that phrase over the years.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:00:31 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Bathovalballer (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 16:13

Wonder if Mr Genge may be disillusioned with Leicester and may like to return to the West Country, especially his home town of Bristol. Can see him doing so in the fullness of time.

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:00:52 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 16:55

He might like it but I doubt they would take him back......



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:01:13 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 17:11

Quote:
Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.

Very much this sad smiley

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:01:48 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 17:36

Quote:
Bathovalballer
Wonder if Mr Genge may be disillusioned with Leicester and may like to return to the West Country, especially his home town of Bristol. Can see him doing so in the fullness of time.

It was reported that they recently failed to get him back.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:02:10 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 17:58

Amazing!

After they got rid of him last time I guess Svengali Lam thinks he can manage him....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:02:34 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 18:23

Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.

Very much this sad smiley

Can we at least change the thread title please? I am no expert but I can see why this could be a problem. Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:02:55 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 20:21

Quote:
Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.

Why?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:03:22 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: ilovebathtime (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 21:15

Quote:
ChippenhamRoman
Quote:
Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.

Why?

Maybe watch the brilliant Brian O'Driscoll documentary shoulder to shoulder if you want to learn a bit more about the troubles and why it shouldn't be trivialised. The use of language used by either side in a sporting context is for me unnecesarily antagonistic.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:03:49 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 21:17

Picture The Reverend Ian Paisley in full volume?

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 21:18

Thank you.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
Date: 12/11/2019 21:19

Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.

Agree with that. A lot of pain has been associated with that phrase over the years.

Gentlemen, i think more pain has been caused by bombs and bullets rather than these two words. Each to their own views of course...

Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:05:03 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 05:17

Iím not sure they were mutually exclusive Clarkey.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 08:07

Quote:
Clarkey3k
Quote:
BathMatt53
Quote:
Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.

Agree with that. A lot of pain has been associated with that phrase over the years.

Gentlemen, i think more pain has been caused by bombs and bullets rather than these two words. Each to their own views of course...

History is history and cannot be rewritten. We can learn from history and such valiant and sacrificial acts. We all want a fortress Rec and the lads to ensure no weakness in our resolve.

https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:04:36 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Robbinho (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 08:12

It also has clear and obvious links to football hooliganism and the far right movement in England as well as being highly provocative and offensive in a long and deadly history of sectarian violence. Iím not sure thatís something Bath or Ulster fans would particularly want to be associated with.

Why do England fans sing No Surrender? [www.bbc.co.uk]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 08:33

I see no clear and obvious links to football hooliganism in PGTís article. I think that is stretching the use of the words ďno surrenderĒ to find something offensive. The article is clear to me that we donít want our lads to surrender at fortress rec which is the Hooper plan. Letís face it we have done so in the past.

https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: ilovebathtime (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 08:40

Quote:
CoochieCoo
I see no clear and obvious links to football hooliganism in PGTís article. I think that is stretching the use of the words ďno surrenderĒ to find something offensive. The article is clear to me that we donít want our lads to surrender at fortress rec which is the Hooper plan. Letís face it we have done so in the past.

I don't think those words would have been used if we were playing any other team in world rugby. The truth is those words do have meaning, specifically to people from the place we are playing on Saturday.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Robbinho (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 10:38

Quote:
ilovebathtime
Quote:
CoochieCoo
I see no clear and obvious links to football hooliganism in PGTís article. I think that is stretching the use of the words ďno surrenderĒ to find something offensive. The article is clear to me that we donít want our lads to surrender at fortress rec which is the Hooper plan. Letís face it we have done so in the past.

I don't think those words would have been used if we were playing any other team in world rugby. The truth is those words do have meaning, specifically to people from the place we are playing on Saturday.

This is exactly my point. I'm not trying to find something to be offended by, it just instantly struck me as being tone deaf at best.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 10:50

Referee: Marius Mitrea

Assistant Referees: Manuel Bottino, Mateto Liperini

TMO: Stefano Penne

Citing Commissioner: Beth Dickens

https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 11:36

Quote:
ilovebathtime
Quote:
ChippenhamRoman
Quote:
Robbinho
The 'No Surrender' reference is very convoluted and in pretty poor taste.

Why?

Maybe watch the brilliant Brian O'Driscoll documentary shoulder to shoulder if you want to learn a bit more about the troubles and why it shouldn't be trivialised. The use of language used by either side in a sporting context is for me unnecesarily antagonistic.

Have to say that was my immediate thought when I read the thread title

Thread titles have consistently had a humorous theme linked to the club we are playing and often I've found them witty and amusing but the connotations of this one quite simply cannot be funny in anyone's perception

I don't think anything offensive was ever intended but please change it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:13:12:05:34 by P G Tips.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 12:07

Now changed.

No offence intended -apologies to those who took it.

To clarify:

No intentional reference to Football in any form -particularly not hooliganism.

I abhor far right & far left politics equally.

Let's get back to the rugby.

PG

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 12:12

Cheers PG, great review by the way

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 12:23

I can understand the concerns over using this phrase in connection with this particular match but what is the connection with the ďfar rightĒ?

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 12:27

My hunch is that most RWC players once back into training would want to play in this. 1st round, home game, all to play for and following a home win in the domestic.

Probable exceptions Flo and Sam.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 12:58

I know Sam U had a very full-on World Cup. But it is a full 2 weeks since his last game. That seems a pretty decent period of time to recover. I'd hope to see him on the bench at least. It's mid-November - and if it had been a normal season, he might have expected to play 8-10 games by now. Yes, internationals are harder, but then so are international players.

No criticism if he doesn't play - the player and the Club will know the exact state of readiness of each of the players. Just opining that if he (and others) does play, that also seems perfectly reasonable.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: sirtidychris (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 18:03

Given that Sam has been playing rugby solidly for 18months I would have thought they all need more than two weeks. Given how sam plays we should give him a 4-6 weeks

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: fat lock (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 21:45

The intensity of a world cup campaign isn't just related to how many minutes they were on the pitch. The mental strain is also significant.
They might just have a life away from rugby - and I think they will benefit from some time away from the oval ball.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 13/11/2019 21:52

Brew has just been handed a 3-week suspension. So I hope that RMcc and JCok are ready to rumble.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Bathovalballer (IP Logged)
Date: 14/11/2019 09:22

So do I Dr bath, so do I. Let's hope they get pass or two in space to help them attack the opposition.

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 14/11/2019 11:40

Quote:
sirtidychris
Given that Sam has been playing rugby solidly for 18months I would have thought they all need more than two weeks. Given how sam plays we should give him a 4-6 weeks

Again - i wouldn't presume to know what state his mind or body are in, and i'll assume that whatever the club goes with relates to that. But, he has played in 6 Test matches this year (spread across 24 Aug - 2 Nov, and (according to ESPN) has started 15 games for Bath in 3 seasons (including this one, so effectively, 2 seasons).

I'd have thought he'd be itching to capitalize on his fitness, especially for such a season-defining game.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 14/11/2019 17:30

I'd hope training has focused on correctly placing the ball down over the try line.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 10:56

Phew, the world is a safer place now that a message board thread title has been changed.

What's next to be outraged and offended by...?

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 11:05

Quote:
ballsout
Phew, the world is a safer place now that a message board thread title has been changed. What's next to be outraged and offended by...?

Run out of kittens to punch this morning?

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 11:59

15. Freddie Burns

14. Semesa Rokoduguni

13. Jonathan Joseph

12. Jamie Roberts

11. Ruaridh McConnochie

10. Rhys Priestland

9. Will Chudley

1. Beno Obano

2. Tom Dunn

3. Will Stuart

4. Josh McNally

5. Charlie Ewels (c)

6. Mike Williams

7. Sam Underhill

8. Zach Mercer

Replacements

16. Jack Walker

17. Lewis Boyce

18. Christian Judge

19. Elliott Stooke

20. Josh Bayliss

21. Chris Cook

22. Max Wright

23. Gabe Hamer-Webb

https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Teamís up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 12:03

And Ulster:

(15-9) Will Addison, Rob Lyttle, Luke Marshall, Stuart McCloskey, Jacob Stockdale, Billy Burns, John Cooney.

(1-8) Jack McGrath, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Iain Henderson (Capt.), Sam Carter, Matthew Rea, Jordi Murphy, Marcell Coetzee.

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Eric O'Sullivan, Tom O'Toole, Alan O'Connor, Sean Reidy, David Shanahan, Angus Curtis, Louis Ludik.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Teamís up
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 12:03

Good to see Ruaridh back & Roko fit: I feared that Roko's HIA would sideline him.

Good also to see Sam & JJ return.

PG

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Teamís up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 12:07

With JJ to help with playmaking duties, Ruaridh to help defuse the aerial threat and Underhill's carrying and knock-them-backwards tackling added in to the two gutsy home performances, that really does look a decently balanced rugby team!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 12:10

That's a top quality team. No excuses for underperformance.

Let's start playing from minute 1 and not wake up half way through the game or when we get a red card.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 12:19

If Ellis can't make the bench then we must have a seriously good back 5. I hope we don't end up with him feeling he'll get better opportunities elsewhere.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Purns (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 12:20

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: sirtidychris (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 13:08

Ellis, Garvey, Faletau, Louw, some big names not in the backrow.

Great team allez !

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 14:38

Quote:
ballsout
What's next to be outraged and offended by...?

That depends on what part of the world you are from. Let's not offend if we can avoid it.

Some people get very upset over losing possession of a rugby ball....

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: fat lock (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 18:04

Quote:
Optimist
If Ellis can't make the bench then we must have a seriously good back 5. I hope we don't end up with him feeling he'll get better opportunities elsewhere.
Might just be good squad management - he's played a few games, and he plays hard - time for a rest to protect him so he can be as fresh as possible during the 6N.
I worry for Mercer - Looks like Faletau will be fit for the 6N - so avoid having to play much for us. Where does Mercer's rest happen? Flouw at 8?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:15:18:09:03 by fat lock.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 18:16

Surely Wales can't pick Faletau........he has not played for about a year!

Looks a good team I just pray to everyone's god that Sam doesn't come back and get injured in the first 10 minutes after all he has done on the World Stage......(Sm124)

Very excited(Sm46)

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: ChippenhamRoman (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 18:36

Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Surely Wales can't pick Faletau........he has not played for about a year!
Looks a good team I just pray to everyone's god that Sam doesn't come back and get injured in the first 10 minutes after all he has done on the World Stage......(Sm124)

Very excited(Sm46)

Re Faletau, they can and Iím imagining they will. Heís quality.

J

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Clarkey3k (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 18:58

Might our bench front row be a tad under-powered for this match or am I being over cautious? Mind you if the front row play like they did last week for the first 70mins it might not matter...

Adopted players: 2019/20 T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw

Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Long Term (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 19:19

Nice to see the thread reflecting my sense of positive anticipation whilst not being sure of the result rather than having to react to predictions of humiliation and evidence of the club and coaches being rotten to the core! (Sm151)

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 15/11/2019 21:50

Quote:
Clarkey3k
Might our bench front row be a tad under-powered for this match or am I being over cautious? Mind you if the front row play like they did last week for the first 70mins it might not matter...

Boyce and Judge are under powered?! Judge is the strongest player in the gym by all accounts. He didnít embarrass himself at Sarries either.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 13:53

Bright start and a rapid descent into ordinariness and basic errors by Chudley and RP in articulate. I feel like we have the beating of them though. JJ looking horribly rusty and a reluctance to use Ruaridh is a bit frustrating.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 13:56

Bath outplaying Ulster. Still behind though thanks to a free try. Why do our half backs start so slowly, its like they have to give away points to motivate themselves.

JJ not himself, Roko looks well up for it, some great hits. Its there for the taking but can they take it?

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: GrumpyDave (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:04

Ulster have a 14 man defensive line, but one sweeper the whole time. Thereís acres of space - we need to mix it up with a few decent kicks to corner IMO.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:20

Roko is our only hope of a try

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:21

Fantastic tackle by Priestland then Burns, did he lead with a kick there though?

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:28

Burns out, hamstring?

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: ken_jnr (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:30

Our attack seems non-existent again. We are going through the motions with no intent and we have to put more bodies into the breakdown than them. Going to struggle to turn this around unless we find some fluency...

AAAAAAAAAND we score!!! (Sm6)

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:33

Quote:
shipwrecked
Burns out, hamstring?

Sooo wrong, miraculous recovery he's back to convert from the touch line Hamer Webbs try!

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:34

The new Roko then!

Is that Burns' calf problem back again. Great kick though.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:34

Dream debut from Hamer-Webb; first touch and scores a try!!

13 v 14

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Mike the Taxi (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:39

Burns off after conversion: RP converts penalty from 45 metres.

16 v 14

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:43

Love the enterprise but shouldn't we play for field position?

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: ken_jnr (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:57

Nolly Waterman absolutely rinsing us in commentary. She isnít wrong in anything she is saying mind you.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 14:58

Replay shows clear no arms tackle on Mercer at the death there - should have been penalty to Bath.
Lucky second Ulster try when when had 2 players being treated for injury.
Really, really unlucky to lose that.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 15:00

Perfect example of why we need fresh half backs. Both just locked into robot mode!

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: supermarinematt (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 15:00

Quote:
ken_jnr
Nolly Waterman absolutely rinsing us in commentary. She isnít wrong in anything she is saying mind you.

She was on the money - we played way to much rugby in the middle of the field and due to the lack of creativity we have we just go side to side and do nothing with the ball.

Should have won that with the territory and possession we had. The lack of go forward we have is really limiting us and nullifying the good work the forwards are doing

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 15:01

Quote:
ken_jnr
Nolly Waterman absolutely rinsing us in commentary. She isnít wrong in anything she is saying mind you.


Agree, spot on in fact.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 15:17

I guess you've got to credit Ulster's defence. But we did carve out enough half chances to win that - we just aren't sophisticated or accomplished enough to convert a high enough proportion of chances though Too depressing to think that we're as good as out. If we were able to field our absolute first choice 23 it's not beyond us, but when does that ever happen.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Shadders (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 15:18

Quote:
Dorset Boy
Replay shows clear no arms tackle on Mercer at the death there - should have been penalty to Bath.
Lucky second Ulster try when when had 2 players being treated for injury.
Really, really unlucky to lose that.

I thought the same...too much going on when the clocks gone red and it's the end of the game. I think the TMO might have said something otherwise.

Hamer-Webb's try was great, thought Roko and Beno were excellent. Shame Freddie gets cramp consistently after 50 minutes!

I think we'll win next week.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 15:26

I'm also staggered their No3 got away with what was a clear knee lift into Freddie as he made the tackle from their solitary attack in the second half. It was as dangerous, if not more so, that Brew's offence for the red card last week, but not even looked at.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 16:06

Just got back - Really enjoyable close match I thought. Some interesting omissions in terms of blocks and offsides IMO, but couldnít really argue that either side didnít deserve to win. Amazed he didnít stop play when around RM who was having head treatment, but awarded so too late to moan.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: rodoftherec (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 16:43

Sadly with this nine and ten we will not get too far - we will win some and lose some but we will not win enough to make a mark. We will also not lose enough to get embarrassed but we will not trouble the scorers too much - they have both been vg players but are now average at best and until we get better we will be mediocre at best.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 16:43

When we, and RP in particular pass out of the back, the pass is fired back about 5 metres. Other teams pass just behind the front/blocking option making it way harder for the defence to react. We constantly ended up behind rage gain line today.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 16:58

Quote:
supermarinematt
Quote:
ken_jnr
Nolly Waterman absolutely rinsing us in commentary. She isnít wrong in anything she is saying mind you.

She was on the money - we played way to much rugby in the middle of the field and due to the lack of creativity we have we just go side to side and do nothing with the ball.

Should have won that with the territory and possession we had. The lack of go forward we have is really limiting us and nullifying the good work the forwards are doing

Agree, so what is Girvan Dempsey doing with the backs ?

Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies

"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: terracehugger (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 16:58

9,10 and 12.

At best, totally ineffective with a complete lack of creative skills.
It really doesnít matter who occupies the remaining back line spots, they will simply be working on crumbs!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: P G Tips (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 17:19

I too thought the Ulster player (hooker?) fortunate to escape a card. I was in line with the incident and from my angle I am surprised anybody could consider it anything but a deliberate knee into the tackle.

A card would have changed the next passage of play so who knows what the result might have been?

That said, I agree that despite the brightness of some of our play, too much was lateral, too many passes too deep and we made some sloppy errors.

A lot of good, sadly undone by too much bad.

PG

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Rokobilly (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 17:20

I'm depressed and encouraged in equal measures

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Woodster (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 18:40

Not a great game to watch but there you go.

Personally, I'm sure I'm seeing a more determined, more motivated Bath who are trying to play more pleasing rugby. Clearly, it's going to be patchy but I for one think there are some good signs.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Trawling (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 18:53

Part of the problem in attack is we don't have a playmaking 12. JJ's got grubbers and chips but it's box it off 9, or Rhys' slow deliberate kicking. Other than that, you can defend flat because it's hands and carrying into contact.

If we had a Mike Catt type 12 or if Freddie was a real midfield option we would be more difficult to defend against.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 19:01

Itís quite amazing how almost every single time we put in a grubber or cross field kick, we either lose 50 metres and are suddenly on the defensive, or we just concede a try.

Itís usually Freddieís awful kicking game that puts us under pressure, sometimes Joseph, today it was Chudley.

Should have won that but mentally not strong enough against the big teams and we were barely going to make any impression in this competition anyway.

Yet another Cup we bow out of early. Our brand of ďrugbyĒ doesnít deserve to go through anyway, just terrible.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Trawling (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 19:11

Then go and watch someone/something else instead and give us all a break!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 19:24

List of most predictable things known to mankind:

#1: Ballsout slags off Bath Rugby after a loss
#2: Bathovalballer slags off Bath Rugby and Ewels in particular after a loss
#3: neither are seen or heard of after a win
#4: the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 19:26

BT have just shown 2 more angles of the hit on Mercer at the end. Zero attempt at a legal tackle, clear shoulder charge, probably a yellow in that position.
We just don't seem to ever get those decisions in our favour. Same last year when the Toulouse player should have been red carded as the citing proved.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: BathHalfFull (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 19:31

I'm actually seeing signs of real encouragement. I feared the worst this season but if we continue to develop then I can see us getting forward dominance in a fair number of games this season and we actually started to put some backs moves together today so with our internationals back we could play some decent stuff. yes we failed to score at the death but we went from our 22 to their 5m line with some really good play and but for a great effort by stockdale we'd have pulled it off. Yes Zach could have maybe not thrown the pass and backed ourselves to recycle but i put it down to good defending. Onwards and upwards but I'm seeing progress for sure.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 19:34

Not sure it was anything to do with mental strength - there was little to separate the teams in reality, and it took guts to come from behind, and to create such a clear cut chance at the end. We just don't have the finesse. Ulster made as many mistakes as us - but i don't suppose they do that week in, week out. I thought Chudley and Priestland started really well - Chudley in particular was putting real pace on it, which seemed to stem from quicker ball, and that gave Priestland a yard or two extra. But as soon as those initial patterns were done with, and they had to busk it there just didn't seem to be any real instinct for turning position into points and for seizing the moment.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 19:37

Quote:
Dorset Boy
BT have just shown 2 more angles of the hit on Mercer at the end. Zero attempt at a legal tackle, clear shoulder charge, probably a yellow in that position.
We just don't seem to ever get those decisions in our favour. Same last year when the Toulouse player should have been red carded as the citing proved.

There was a hit on Mercer in the first half when he was injured that looked no arms as well, add to that the leg lead into Burns and there was quite a lot missed.
Couldn't see from the TV but they also looked hugely offside at times in the backs.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 19:42

Key incorrect decisions from the officials gave that win to Ulster. Furious having seen those calls a number of times.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 19:44

Quote:
BathHalfFull
I'm actually seeing signs of real encouragement. I feared the worst this season but if we continue to develop then I can see us getting forward dominance in a fair number of games this season and we actually started to put some backs moves together today so with our internationals back we could play some decent stuff. yes we failed to score at the death but we went from our 22 to their 5m line with some really good play and but for a great effort by stockdale we'd have pulled it off. Yes Zach could have maybe not thrown the pass and backed ourselves to recycle but i put it down to good defending. Onwards and upwards but I'm seeing progress for sure.

+1

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Long Term (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 20:18

Quote:
BathMatt53
List of most predictable things known to mankind:
#1: Ballsout slags off Bath Rugby after a loss(AND FREDDIE BURNS IN PARTICULAR)
#2: Bathovalballer slags off Bath Rugby and Ewels in particular after a loss
#3: neither are seen or heard of after a win
#4: the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

Please excuse the correction in highlights. Like others I see a team commitment to improvement and some good signs. It felt like two evenly matched sides out there and if we had had the early touch of luck and taken an early lead I think it would have been a different result.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Boldangrey (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 20:45

Too often we're plagued with TMO referrals.

Today there were too few - knee to Freddie, no arms on Zac.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 21:11

Looking at the highlights Zac at already off loaded the ball before he was hit! Donít think there was a penalty there but will try an put a video up to check!

https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Dorset Boy (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 21:15

Coochie, the angles shown by BT clearly show no arms, no attempt to wrap, just an illegal shoulder charge which is a cast iron penalty, and possible yellow card, plus it was in the act of passing for a likely try. If after the offload then it was late too.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 21:40

As Optimist says, we almost never get any rub of the green or 50:50 calls from officials. Getting a bit weird tbh.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 21:55

There are signs of optimism, having said that and watching today I could not help but say to myself what would we give for any type of consistency. We have beaten the Chiefs and Saints at the Rec and we should have despatched Ulster no excuses. No disrespect meant to Ulster but at home on a heavy pitch we should have won that game comfortably it should not be coming down to the last play and bemoaning poor officiating, but again as Hooper stated we let ourselves down with poor play and a lack of attack. There are no excuses. Congratulations and well played Ulster.

We have a good squad yes we are lacking a quality reliable playmaker but what we have is hardly shabby 2 seasoned international 10's, we have a proven attack Coach and a star studded backline so please someone tell me why is our attack non existent??

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: The Bear (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 22:30

That was like watching Wasps of old. Why bother with an offside line? Not a big fan of the Italian interpretation of the laws....

There was some promise there but... Still a lack of incision in the backs.

Shame we couldn't finish it. Would have done our confidence a world of good.

Adopted Player:
[18] - Taulupe Faletau

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 22:34

For my money Ali 9 and 10 are far far too predictable. RP is slowing down noticeably, charge down and blocked pass two games on the trot. Chudley's box kicking is not contestable and readable.
Bit worried about Freddy and his cramp as well.

We have a decent pack and I was surprised on a heavy ground we didn't kick to the corners even though our line out wasn't working too well.

Overall though we looked loads better, 17 + phases at one point and Roko loves smashing people back. Loved the hit on Stockdale. Disappointed but way better.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: CoochieCoo (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 22:35

Here you are DB



https://pbflaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mToRbTHGUTg0zWMi8LNeOlOmx4tZHsH3crYbASv0X_qWBw8j30S9KV-RiZIf_AWoOZXD7D3Rjy1tYRAKXykpZSHuOObVQBiovPpB6PnDUuBM6xlx2F1yOjKpEBmWUfMru3SCm255j3p-CnndC7J9ZUG29r1BtfFWHHj-MdzDOpzBuTRTPqNaco8ctf1svZyW0?width=106&height=160&cropmode=none
https://pbfkaa.by.files.1drv.com/y4mhxY1k8zrLn92LwcIYgSd1KcA6zBGX-Wgw2dNz8Us0xA71EhjMmL2tc-ggx7OlsBDECw8eAZ_oAWnNyh5doimzOEics5H87cuh5Q-Sb-ViPD6Pt6QUBneu5F2tlWLltGQZ8pd5qFmsZwbKB39L5Dki21gJfnsiaxLiCiuWPCZUjkXp4EttajzFAgcCl6YuDDF?width=160&height=107&cropmode=none

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 22:35

So the one try we scored and the only time we looked threatening Mercer picks from the base of the scrum and throws a miss pass (cutting out 9, 10 & 12 ) direct to JJ who puts Gabe into space at pace. Interesting.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 22:51

Yes, JJ had an odd game but hid did throw a great pass for the try. Has he ever played 12? We could do with a centre that can pass.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 22:53

Ah ok. Not cutting out 9, 10, 12. Deliberately and clearly a training ground move where Chudley moves open calling for the ball and pulling the defence while Mercer deliberately breaks blind and exploits the space.

Come on, that was a great move.

Am gutted we lost that. Two really bad bits of luck led to 14 points against us. Ulster's defence was excellent. But we've got a good young pack, the most solid set piece we've had in years and there are signs of opening up behind. Yes creativity at 10/12 is concerning (what is Max Wright's crash ball to knock on ratio?). But actually I'm kind of ok iff we continue to develop.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 23:07

Quote:
hasta
Come on, that was a great move.

Not sure anyone is saying it wasn't actually.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 16/11/2019 23:12

Dcsh was, actually. (Tbh our posts crossed, I think it looks like mine is a response to you)

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: supermarinematt (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 00:03

There seems to be one move I've noticed they have used a few times in the last few games, where Chudley passes but then loops around the 10 & 12 to create an extra man. Simple move but effective. Its one of the few times they don't slow the ball down or let JR just crash it up the middle. The should try utilise that miss pass as well, again simple stuff but works, especially if you have players coming on at pace.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Bathovalballer (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 00:26

Well I thought that was one of the better games we have seen at the Rec for some time.

On occasions, we attacked with menace and pace. Great shame our passing in the centre, apart from JJ's one to Hamer-Webb, was so poor, Rhuard M never got a pass all day.

The pack did well generally and Ewels is growing into captaincy. He has a very effective game too.

Underhill was devastating in some of his tackling and linked well on occasions. Roko looked back to his best and completed a couple of huge tackles of his own.

Allison at full back cleared up a lot of potential grief for Ulster who were lucky with their two breakaway tries from our errors.

It was enjoyable to watch, the officials were poor at times for both sides, but we showed great spirit and resolution in nearly nicking a game we could and probably should of won. From where I sat I couldn't see the end of the last play, so cannot comment on what went on. I feel if we play like that again, we will win more than we will lose and am hopeful for the future.

Adopted player 2019/20 Jonathan 'JJ' Joseph.

The Jink Joseph.

Adopted player 2018/19 Adopted player 2018/19 Semesa 'The Rock' Rokoduguni

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 00:37

Having now watched the replay I am rather disappointed with our performance. A number of aspects of our game, some of which had come on by leaps & bounds, didnít function at all well today despite a huge amount of effort & pain put in by the boys. The line out was poor, we were under pressure in the scrum, there was no hint of a rolling maul, we made too many errors, our kicking game was poor,
JJ can never find space in a Bath shirt. SH seems to have acknowledged much of this so they will need redouble their efforts.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 00:43

Quote:
Dorset Boy
Coochie, the angles shown by BT clearly show no arms, no attempt to wrap, just an illegal shoulder charge which is a cast iron penalty, and possible yellow card, plus it was in the act of passing for a likely try. If after the offload then it was late too.

CC has put up the video showing the no arms tackle on Mercer, in fact if you roll back to the previous pass about 30 yds from the line there is another dubious tackle, certainly little wrap if at all in that move.

BnG is right, no enough TMO in this game.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 01:22

We played well and lost. It happens and I'd be pretty sure we'll play worse and win - maybe even in the return fixture. I was encouraged by the forwards. The backs do look pedestrian. JJ at 12 (or least least swapping with the good doctor) would be very interesting. But when alls said and done, we need a more threatening 10.

Our last play, BTW, was criminally naive.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 06:01

Quote:
joethefanatic
Our last play, BTW, was criminally naive.

Why?

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 07:15

They were so close to (over?) the offside line all day that by the time Ball was in JJs hands he was wearing an Ulsterman. Given that it was clearly never going to be pinged they needed to work the doglegs rather than going straight at them - didnít see many Bath players cutting angles through the centres to take this opportunity, Iím not sure JR has this in his toolbox (the speed needed)?

With several centres out of contract we need to be looking at someone like Seta Tamanivalu IMO unless we are going to turn JC into a 12 which would be awesome to see...!

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:17:07:51:03 by BathMatt53.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: joethefanatic (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 08:24

Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
joethefanatic
Our last play, BTW, was criminally naive.

Why?

We're one point down, times up, we have possession in the opposite half and we send a single runner up in the 12 channel from off the top line out ball. Who gets isolated and holds on. Penalty. Cue fat lady.

Drive the line out ball, commit the fringe defence, keep possession at all costs, As long as you don't make a mistake, you have an infinite amount to time to score and any score will do. Milk a penalty. Set up a drop goal. Anything, really, BUT TREASURE THE FECKING BALL LIKE IT IS YOUR FIRST BORN CHILD.

... IMHO, of course.

Now in Honolulu



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:17:08:25:42 by joethefanatic.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Ali1969 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 09:00

The problem as I mentioned in a previous post our transfer team went on a public search for a new 10, they informed RP he was Not going to be offered a new contract etc blah blah blah

For whatever reason and we will never be publicly told by Tarquin the club failed to attract a 10 and had to grovel to RP and pay him an enormous new deal which his performances had not deserved and in addition our DoR spookily changed his mind in relation to remaining at the club - I am sure the two are not linked (Sm147)

On a positive note it looks like the vocal Sarries who stormed WE WILL APPEAL THIS IS DISGUSTING may not be actually appealing at all for fear of relegation so there may be players becoming available at the end of the season, providing ourselves and the other Premiership clu step up and do not capitulate against them, really feel for the true Sarries supporters if true because you have been cheated and your clubs name tarnished beyond reproach.

Sad because I genuinely believe Nigel Wray is a good man and when I met him he was passionate about rugby and player welfare especially post career but his position is untenable and he will for the good of the game needs to sadly fa on his sword.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 09:03

Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
joethefanatic
Our last play, BTW, was criminally naive.

Why?

We're one point down, times up, we have possession in the opposite half and we send a single runner up in the 12 channel from off the top line out ball. Who gets isolated and holds on. Penalty. Cue fat lady.

Drive the line out ball, commit the fringe defence, keep possession at all costs, As long as you don't make a mistake, you have an infinite amount to time to score and any score will do. Milk a penalty. Set up a drop goal. Anything, really, BUT TREASURE THE FECKING BALL LIKE IT IS YOUR FIRST BORN CHILD.

Well said.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 09:21

Or run in an injury time try which they were a cats whisker away from doing.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 09:25

Doesn't change the fact that it was a terrible play to run and that comes back to Ewels for calling it. We were lucky to get another opportunity anyway thanks to Ulster messing up the end of the game.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 10:02

Quote:
ballsout
Quote:
joethefanatic
Quote:
Bath Hammer
Quote:
joethefanatic
Our last play, BTW, was criminally naive.

Why?

We're one point down, times up, we have possession in the opposite half and we send a single runner up in the 12 channel from off the top line out ball. Who gets isolated and holds on. Penalty. Cue fat lady.

Drive the line out ball, commit the fringe defence, keep possession at all costs, As long as you don't make a mistake, you have an infinite amount to time to score and any score will do. Milk a penalty. Set up a drop goal. Anything, really, BUT TREASURE THE FECKING BALL LIKE IT IS YOUR FIRST BORN CHILD.

Well said.

Two things.

1) "As long as you don't make a mistake" Absolutely key but what about the ref making a mistake?

2)"BUT TREASURE THE FECKING BALL LIKE IT IS YOUR FIRST BORN CHILD" We did our ball retention was good. That improvement needs to be noted.

The failure to win wasn't just in the last play, it was elsewhere but there has to be some recognition of the fact that we are significantly better as a side. Ewell's decisions are never going to be 100%.
It is close to the time when it has to be admitted that Hooper is doing OK.

The criticisms of fight, dog, ball retention, tackling have receded the new ones of "running the ball" are now appearing. We need game management but we are now a decent side.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: TG Kesmo (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 10:12

Just rewatched the last play as we couldnít really see what happened from the terrace. ďtackleĒ on Mercer was late (ish) but absolutely a no arm shoulder charge. Clear penalty and potentially a card. Ref just wanted the game over, assistant ref not really looking. On such small moments are games won and lost.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 10:28

Quote:
hasta
Dcsh was, actually. (Tbh our posts crossed, I think it looks like mine is a response to you)
No I wasnít, I was pointing out if we cut out the static shovelling along the line and put our damaged men in space at pace we can score tries like that.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 10:35

Quote:
shipwrecked

The failure to win wasn't just in the last play, it was elsewhere but there has to be some recognition of the fact that we are significantly better as a side. Disagree, only the lineout is significantly improved

Ewell's decisions are never going to be 100%. Absolutely true, he seems to be doing a good job.

It is close to the time when it has to be admitted that Hooper is doing OK. Absolutely not

The criticisms of fight, dog, ball retention, tackling have receded the new ones of "running the ball" are now appearing. We need game management but we are now a decent side Disagree again.

Yesterday's game was pretty poor from both sides and could have gone either way, Bath just didn't get the rub of the green. Not sure why Bath bother with wingers though as we rarely use them effectively.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 10:45

Quote:
OutsideBath
Quote:
shipwrecked

The failure to win wasn't just in the last play, it was elsewhere but there has to be some recognition of the fact that we are significantly better as a side. Disagree, only the lineout is significantly improved

Ewell's decisions are never going to be 100%. Absolutely true, he seems to be doing a good job.

It is close to the time when it has to be admitted that Hooper is doing OK. Absolutely not

The criticisms of fight, dog, ball retention, tackling have receded the new ones of "running the ball" are now appearing. We need game management but we are now a decent side Disagree again.

Yesterday's game was pretty poor from both sides and could have gone either way, Bath just didn't get the rub of the green. Not sure why Bath bother with wingers though as we rarely use them effectively.

Wishful thinking that there might be at least some recognition so what does Hooper have to do to achieve some sort of recognition for you.

P.S. We have a solid scrum, excellent back row that competes at the breakdown and a lineout that was working, up to yesterday. How is that not an improvement.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: OutsideBath (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 10:57

Quote:
shipwrecked
Wishful thinking that there might be at least some recognition so what does Hooper have to do to achieve some sort of recognition for you.

Win all our home games, finish in top 4 and qualify for HC quarter finals would have me saying Hooper has done a good job.

He's not alone in concerning me though. Our 9, 10, 12 certainly aren't the best but I would expect a half decent attack coach to do something with 2 ex internationals and a former PL winning 9.

I like what Charteris is doing with the lineout and our defence in midfield yesterday seemed better as well.

I just don't agree we are a significantly better side as you maintain.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 11:15

OB, I didn't say good job, I said OK.

He said he was going to sort out the forwards, they are miles better before Hatley gets to work.
Everyone, I mean everyone agrees we need 9,10,12 but that is down to availability unless you have a suggestion?

You can't say we are not better than last year, we couldn't retain the ball, deal with restarts, tackle, scrum, win lineouts, throw in catch the ball......

Plus we have young talent coming through, it all part of the club.

You are right though we do need half backs.....have we signed Rhys Webb yet?

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 11:23

Compared to where we are at the start of the season, being nilled at half time in a few games, there's definitely been an improvement. Having said that, still lost at home, again look likely be out of a Cup after just a couple of rounds as usual. And we still make so many mistakes, it's so frustrating to watch.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: miller8 (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 12:32

This team can only get better especially when World Cup and injury returnees get back into the rhythm...

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: ballsout (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 12:43

Quote:
miller8
This team can only get better especially when World Cup and injury returnees get back into the rhythm...

Other teams will get better too

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Banachek (IP Logged)
Date: 17/11/2019 14:38

Should/could have won this one...
The lack of incision from the centres against Ulster was down to a couple of things IMO
1) playing Roberts, yes he hits it up but rarely breaks the line. He rarely offloads in the tackle either so no continuity to build pressure drag in defenders so creating space outside.
2) slow ball from rucks, partly SH , partly Ulster doing a job at slowing it down.
3) Pitch heavy, with all the "weather" over the last couple of weeks , means players like JJ just cant step / use their footwork .

Until we have options/plays that allows us to get some penetration up the middle we won't be able to exploit the space outside this creates.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Griff (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2019 13:18

Like others have said I do think there are signs of improvement and we scored another first phase try. We do need a 10 who can take the ball flat and at pace, sadly RP is just shipping the ball on, though he did play a lot of the game on 1 leg.

Apart from the no arms tackle at the end, I'm still smarting over the lack of forward pass given for their second try and the fact RM was down injured at the time after being (you could argue, taken out in the air as the Ulster player didn't exactly make much of an effort to go for the ball) the ref still allowed play to continue around him whilst being treated, when he should have blown up before that as play was becoming unsafe! with a player down.

"You're going to need a bigger boat"

Miles Reid Adopted Player 2019/20

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Shadders (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2019 13:33

BT sport clip here with BOD and Lol analysing the final play.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2019 14:04

Quote:
Shadders
BT sport clip

They got lucky with that one for sure, not that it matters now.

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2019 14:08

Quote:
Griff
I'm still smarting over ... the fact RM was down injured at the time

Ö. that was going through my mind when they scored, and I was trying to think how you work out a compromise so that teams aren't immediately handicapped by losing a player to injury, without going down the football route where players tactically stop the game by feigning injury.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Rawce (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2019 14:43

Those around me reckoned it was the bounce that went forward, not the pass which is fine. The missed knee to Freddie's shoulder grates, as well as the final passage of play.

Also - [twitter.com] Stockdale must have a fair few kgs and cms on Roko!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: dcsh (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2019 15:04

Quote:
Shadders
BT sport clip here with BOD and Lol analysing the final play.
I think Lol was busy think about what to have for tea or something as he kept saying that the ďtryĒ stood regardless, but they should have come back for the penalty.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2019 15:14

If we were a bit unlucky, then we should be good enough to go an get a win at Ulster. I'm not sure if they were missing many first-choice on Saturday? But if we can add Flo, Taulupe, Joe C and Ant to the mix then it's far from impossible.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: supermarinematt (IP Logged)
Date: 18/11/2019 18:20

Quote:
Griff
I'm still smarting over the lack of forward pass given for their second try

Pass went backwards, it was the bounce that went forwards so the try is ok

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 04:01

It is true that we were at the wrong end of some decisions but they were very close with one, possibly, two try attempts & I donít remember us threatening their line. Our lineout was poor & we made errors at crucial times. We had a lot of the ball but lacked incisiveness. Also, disappointingly, we didnít see a glimpse of a rolling maul. Overall going forward I am less than encouraged by that performance apart from the spirit & effort.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Boldangrey (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 08:45

Normally I would have back Zac and Roko on a 2 on 2, but there was actually poor decision making in the last non-try.

Zac would have run through that tackle 9 times out of 10 if he had held the ball.

The touch line acts as an extra defender in that situation. Had Roko cut inside earlier he would have given himself more space. As it was, even if the interception was not made he would probably have been bundled into touch.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: dr.bath1865 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 09:07

I'm amazed Zach passed! He never passes, hardly all game, which is fine because his footwork and contact work are so strong. But unlike the rest of the forwards who look to tip the ball on or give the pass out the back, Zach almost always takes it on himself.

I'd have loved to have seen him dummy and go for it. Cooney might've stopped him a metre or two out. But we're going forward with momentum, we've potential penalty advantage from the Cooney 'hit', potential penalties as Ulster retreat, the chance to pick and go towards the posts... ah what might have been.

But if Zach hadn't passed and we hadn't scored, I'd have been wishing he'd given it to Roko!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: B4thB4ck (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 09:37

No blame to the Bath players at the end, Stockdale came from an angle where he could not be seen. I guess 50/50 on whether Zac would have run through the 9, I don't think a dummy would have worked necessarily as Stockdale had already told the 9 to take Zac, pointing as he was running, credit to him.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 09:45

I'd rather focus on the miracle catch that Zach made + the skill of whoever it was who tipped it on to him - after 80 minutes of full-on action, when your skills are at their most vulnerable - and the energy and spirit that put Bath in that position in the first place. Stockdale's defensive work, as described by Dallaglio, was absolutely fascinating too. Just great rugby all round.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 10:26

Quote:
Optimist
+ the skill of whoever it was who tipped it on to him

Chris Cook

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Deckchair (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 10:30

Ulster deserved the win by dint of an excellent defence game strategy that forced Bath to make mistakes, travel sideways and box kick to nowhere. Ulster then had the skills and players to take advantage of those Bath mistakes. MoM was the Ulster scrum half. Chudley no way near as influential or creative. The Bath 3/4 line is blunt and clueless and bang 'n crash is no longer a viable game plan.
Ulster took their chances because we gave them more ( with a little help from poor match officials) and they had the players to accept. Our best 3/4 line break was made by our number 8. Our pack has been the most positive development this year but our lineout wobbled against Ulster and the bad old penalty count has started mounting again.
Early days yet so let's hope that Bath can begin to finally get it all together - but the blunt 3/4 line is a concern.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:19:10:31:14 by Deckchair.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 10:45

On the highlights - stop the clock at 6' 42. Priestland is pulling the ball back literally 10-12 metres, and directly behind him. My impression is that was the norm with RP's passes out the back. Surely the set up has got to be tighter than that to really challenge the defence?

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 11:23

Quote:
Optimist
On the highlights - stop the clock at 6' 42. Priestland is pulling the ball back literally 10-12 metres, and directly behind him. My impression is that was the norm with RP's passes out the back. Surely the set up has got to be tighter than that to really challenge the defence?

Isn't that a function of compensating for their offside defence, they run two lines one in front of the other, the regular backs are dummy runners and Cook and Zac are the second line. Its what gets us wide in the first place.

I agree that RP plays too deep though, if he doesn't threaten the midfield by his running or short chip kicks through his backs are always going to be predictable. He has no variation.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 11:45

Screengrab of the final play on Saturday. I think this was typical of the way we were set up. Look at RP's shoulders - it is physically impossible for the flat runner to be a potential recipient of the pass. The set up with Bath in Mike/GF days is so much tighter. The ball actually went out the back, but in the freeze-frame below you still don't know which of the 2 runners is getting the ball (from Eastmond, I think).

https://i.ibb.co/0cdqjJM/rp.png


https://i.ibb.co/sQWyZgK/gf.png



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:19:11:53:52 by Optimist.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 11:49

We seem to rely massively on Zac both going forward & in last ditch tackles despite the fact that he must be carrying numerous aches & pains. Few others show up nearly as much. Underhill was fairly invisible as was McConaghy. JJ offers himself a lot but just seems to slip over in the tackle. We have a lot of work to do to get that backline performing as an effective & incisive unit & as has been said itís not helped by rather uninspiring halfbacks.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: BathMatt53 (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 12:13

I watched JJ at the weekend quite a bit. He runs in fast, stops while he does a little Riverdance style step thing, scrubs all his speed (maybe slips over) and gets nailed. I wish he would just keep the momentum going and then pass to the winger or an inside man who also has momentum...I din't notice it for England so either I wasn't watching or he doesn't feel the need to try and force something with England where the ball is better and quicker?

[Adoptee 19 / 20: The High ball and counter attack meister, Tom Homer]

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 12:16

True Opti, but that it is one of the few occasions when we actually got the ball wide. Plus Ford is a quicker 10 than Priestland.
Basically though I agree about Priestland but that play isn't the best example. He was forced to play like that having been charged down last week and nearly intercepted early this week. Remember Chudley was also charged down.
The rush defence can be pushed back if you kick behind them, we didn't so thats a green light to charge up, RP compensated.
Is this coaching or is it the half backs? I preferred it when we did the scrum, lineout, rolling maul thing, to be honest, that way their backs are walking backwards.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 13:21

On Saturday on numerous occasions there was a large areas of green stuff behind the Ulster very, very fast up defence line (offside?)..........all it needed was a little chip kick (do I say this after every match) to get behind them a few times.

This would have two effects........keep their back line honest rather than just rushing straight up because they "knew" we were always going to pass it as described so clearly above, and might also cause their full back to be less deep to try and cover this option which in turn would open up the option of a very deep kick going over his head giving us the opportunity to really make some ground.

Freddie is generally the only one who seems to do this but for some weird reason, for a very talented footballer, he always kicks too far.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Bath Hammer (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 14:21

Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
On Saturday on numerous occasions there was a large areas of green stuff behind the Ulster very, very fast up defence line (offside?)..........all it needed was a little chip kick (do I say this after every match) to get behind them a few times.
This would have two effects........keep their back line honest rather than just rushing straight up because they "knew" we were always going to pass it as described so clearly above, and might also cause their full back to be less deep to try and cover this option which in turn would open up the option of a very deep kick going over his head giving us the
opportunity to really make some ground.


Freddie is generally the only one who seems to do this but for some weird reason, for a very talented footballer, he always kicks too far.

Totally agree

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 14:40

'that it is one of the few occasions when we actually got the ball wide'

I'm not really sure that 'move' counts. It was entirely dependent, for its success, in Cook going for the flick (which indicates that he was actually getting man and ball, not that the pull-back had given him some space), and Zach catching that flick-on. That is simply not a repeatable process - it would only come off about 1 in 10 times.

I don't think the chip kick is so much in RP's repertoire because he's not quick enough off the mark to regather it himself, nor is Jamie Roberts. JJ would be, but 10 chipping to 13 is fairly rare. A bit more interchangeability between JJ and JR might help.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 16:07

Quote:
Optimist
I don't think the chip kick is so much in RP's repertoire because he's not quick enough off the mark to regather it himself, nor is Jamie Roberts. JJ would be, but 10 chipping to 13 is fairly rare. A bit more interchangeability between JJ and JR might help.

Strongly agree, has JJ ever played 12?

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Bath Supporter Jack (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 17:56

Thing is Opti, and this is a rare admission from me (!), I was not the fastest off the mark, but if you chip high very late then you can run through whilst they are firstly recognising that you have not passed, they then have to stop.........whilst you are accelerating (OK in my case running marginally quicker) they are then turning and then trying to catch you up from a standing start.

Of course the person who kicks does not have to be the person who catches so imagine putting Rory M and JJ at 12 and 13 surely one of them could catch a well placed kick.......take on the full back and pass to the other.........see easy peasy!!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: hasta (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 18:21

You don't need a second distributor at 12 (see Exeter, England, Sarries) they can easily be at 13. JJ has the handling but not the kicking skills for it imo. Plus he has, I think, an inclination to run more than distribute.

Look, clearly Priestland/Roberts are not the forces they were, but those are internationals. Many, many teams have won the prem without internationals at 10/12.

We're building a pack that can absolutely mix it with any other British and Irish pack. We have gas outside. We don't *need* all stars at 9/10/12. We need good patterns, good decision making, trust, skills, direction and discipline.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: shipwrecked (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 18:29

Quote:
Bath Supporter Jack
Thing is Opti, and this is a rare admission from me (!), I was not the fastest off the mark, but if you chip high very late then you can run through whilst they are firstly recognising that you have not passed, they then have to stop.........whilst you are accelerating (OK in my case running marginally quicker) they are then turning and then trying to catch you up from a standing start.
Of course the person who kicks does not have to be the person who catches so imagine putting Rory M and JJ at 12 and 13 surely one of them could catch a well placed kick.......take on the full back and pass to the other.........see easy peasy!!

I agree BSJ, but a little chip over the top when you are running is really hard, needs practice and a lot of it and it is easy to charge down, thats why the grubber is easier but the point is as you say it just has to go behind them.

https://i.ibb.co/Fz0bC3q/Unknown-1.jpg


Beno Obano Age 25 years, Loosehead prop, 5ft 8ins 18st 12lbs 'Mauls are like Transformers' they change form to become more powerful!

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Trawling (IP Logged)
Date: 19/11/2019 20:42

The challenge with your analysis Opti is that:
A: we nearly scored on the final play on Saturday
B: we thought the diamond attacking shape was God's gift until Sarries completely shut it down in the final
Having said that, I entirely agree that whatever you are going to do needs to be done at, just before or just after contact, whether it's jack ball, face ball or offload. No time for the defenders to react so they have to predict which makes the attackers' job easier.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2019:11:19:20:49:06 by Trawling.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Optimist (IP Logged)
Date: 20/11/2019 08:52

'The challenge with your analysis Opti is that: A: we nearly scored on the final play on Saturday'

As posted above - the fact that we nearly scored on the final play is irrelevant when you look at the sequence of events. A tip-on simply isn't part of a pre-planned move - it's a 'spontaneous, sh*it or bust desperation play - the sort of thing you do if you've got penalty advantage. If Cook had just caught the ball he would have been wiped out, Ulster would have swarmed all over him and it would have been turnover ball. I'll accept though the challenge that Cook is not a winger/full-back and so cutting that line would be fairly unfamiliar to him.

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 20/11/2019 22:43

Quote:
Optimist
On the highlights - stop the clock at 6' 42. Priestland is pulling the ball back literally 10-12 metres, and directly behind him. My impression is that was the norm with RP's passes out the back. Surely the set up has got to be tighter than that to really challenge the defence?

At the risk of being video replay nerd check the play at 49:45

RP is close to the defensive line but has to hold up the pass because Ulster player has stepped up for interception. RP looks momentarily phased but then passes flat to Ewells who is through and mskes another 10 metres into their 22. If his pass goes to underhill its a try

A more instinctive 10 like ford would pose that threat more often

On another note go to 51:45 when their 2 puts knee deliberately to Freddie's head when one on one on our 22. Surely something that should have been looked at more closely?

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: gaz59 (IP Logged)
Date: 21/11/2019 09:32

Watched the last play again and now the no-arm tackle looks so obvious but guess at that point in the game the TMO was cracking open his complimentary bottle of bushmills (Sm14)

Re: PREVIEW: BATH v ULSTER Both teamsí up
Posted by: Old Bath Tub (IP Logged)
Date: 21/11/2019 16:02

Quote:
gaz59
Watched the last play again and now the no-arm tackle looks so obvious but guess at that point in the game the TMO was cracking open his complimentary bottle of bushmills (Sm14)

I think he was tucking into his Paella Italiano at half time and fell asleep ! (Sm120)

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